Lifter noise at start-up

[canman]

I changed my engine oil and filter last week (Castrol Syntec 5W-30/ 7.2L and Toyota OEM filter - the small one) and noticed this time I seem to be getting more than the usual lifter and noise at start-up. It's been around -15C/-20C in the morning the last week. The noise goes away after a few seconds, but it just doesn't sound right to me, and I'm wondering if I should change the oil. Any thoughts?

 

[ursius]

So no fooling I literally just dropped my truck off at the Mechanics shop. I've been hearing whats sounds like a loose nut rattling around. (That's my technical term) I actually thought lifters as well, or a loose bolt, as I recently had a Fan Clutch replaced and thought maybe they forgot something...

It would go away after a few seconds, perhaps 15 or 30 seconds.

The people at this shop are good folks but after looking they told me that it was the Timing chain tensioner. Then I proceeded to be told it was going to be quite the cost to fix it... Namely $3200.00

Now after I picked my chin up off the floor I did some searching on Timing Chain noise here on Mud... and thank god there are lots of articles. Including a note from CruiserDan discussing this issue.

Do a search for "Cold Start Rattle" you can read more. Needless to say the general consensus has been that it's normal. However there may be things to help it:

1.) Clean the Throttle Body
2.) Adjust the Valve Lash (I have no idea what this, I'm researching now) (This was from LandTank)
3.) Change the Oil Filter and make sure to use a Toyota part
4.) Thicker viscosity oil can help as well

I recently took the truck and had an oil change about 700 miles ago and just like you the temperatures have been dropping down in the area.

Anyway you may already know all of this, it's just ironic I'm doing the same thing with my truck right now.

Cheers,

 

[Kernal]

My start-up rattle lasts +/- one second depending on how long the engine had sat without starting and what oil viscosity and oil filter I was using.

Here's a link to an old but good thread on the subject:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/4815-startup-knock-after-0w-40-change.html

 

[kidglove13]

This is a typical start up rattle for some 80's
The timing chain tensioner is tensioned by oil pressure I believe.
Mine does this as well and always has, it only happens right at start up and goes away imediatly.
I have found that heavier weight oil quiets it down a little bit.
It is not something to really worry about IMHO

 

[canman]

I have been doing a bit of reading/ research, and I guess I should have searched first under "engine rattle" as opposed to "lifter noise".
I came across a few posts and have now learned that Castrol Syntec is not fully synthetic (Group III vs Group IV) which really suprised me. From wiki:

Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005 production of GTL (Gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began. Even though they are considered a synthetic product they are still mineral base stocks and counted as the mineral part of all semi-synthetic lubricants. Group III base stocks [with certain amount of mixture of PAOs and esters and Group V] are considered synthetic motor oil ONLY in the United States.[citation needed] Group III based lubricants are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" in any market outside of the USA. Within the US, there are no official specifications, or standards as to which oils can be marketed as "synthetic".[citation needed]

I checked the back of the container I found this;"Not for sale outside the Americas"
I think it is still a very good oil, but I now feel like I have been screwed. I would usually wait until it went on sale and I last paid $CAN22.00 for a 4.4L container at Walmart when it is normally sells for around $CAN 38.00. However, now that I know it is not a full synthetic I will likely go back to Mobil 1 which I used previously since it is around the same price when the Castrol is not on sale. Also, I might change my oil filter also as I'm now wondering if the anti-drain back valve is working properly.

 

[kidglove13]

I do not think that synthetic or convential oil type has anything to do with the start up rattle.
One might quiet it down more than the other.

 

[Tacoma4life]

Some noise at really cold start-up is more or less normal. Before the cold/thick oil circulates you have to expect some clatter from the valves. I have also heard some people say piston slap can be normal when cold. I think so long as your using a quality oil and filter your fine.

As a note- We have Rotella T6 (5w-40 synthetic) with a NAPA gold 1516 filter in our 1997 (144,xxx miles) and it doesn't sound too bad at -10F starts.

 

[Turtle Master]

What lifters? DOHC, engine restore will stop that death rattle.

 

[96r50]

Steve, I use 8L of synthetic 5w40 Rotella (T-6) in my truck with the large Toyota filter and I haven't had any weird sounds this winter. Canadian Tire usually has it for $30 per jug.

I have been doing a bit of reading/ research, and I guess I should have searched first under "engine rattle" as opposed to "lifter noise".
I came across a few posts and have now learned that Castrol Syntec is not fully synthetic (Group III vs Group IV) which really suprised me.

...

I checked the back of the container I found this;"Not for sale outside the Americas"
I think it is still a very good oil, but I now feel like I have been screwed. I would usually wait until it went on sale and I last paid $CAN22.00 for a 4.4L container at Walmart when it is normally sells for around $CAN 38.00. However, now that I know it is not a full synthetic I will likely go back to Mobil 1 which I used previously since it is around the same price when the Castrol is not on sale. Also, I might change my oil filter also as I'm now wondering if the anti-drain back valve is working properly.

 

[Tools R Us]

This is a typical start up rattle for some 80's
The timing chain tensioner is tensioned by oil pressure I believe.
Mine does this as well and always has, it only happens right at start up and goes away imediatly.
I have found that heavier weight oil quiets it down a little bit.
It is not something to really worry about IMHO

X2, common characteristic of the 1FZ, other than the noise, has never shown to be an issue. Mine is almost quiet, changing to the small filter and the oil viscosity recommended in Aussie spec chart for my temp range, greatly reduced it.

The tensioner is hydraulic and doesn't have a ratchet holder, so when there is no oil pressure it can/will collapse. When the motor sets, oil drains back out of the system, when cold started it takes a few seconds for oil pressure to reach it. This is normal operation, replacing it will do nothing.

 

[canman]

Thanks to everyone for the input. No lifters...do I feel stupid now.
Anyways, I changed the oil filter last night with another one (same as one removed) and added a little bit of oil, even though it was at the full mark on the dipstick. When I started it this morning, there was very little sound (what I am used to hearing), but it was only -7C inside the garage and outside it was -24C.
I'm starting to wonder if there is really 4.4L in the oil container I purchased. Normally, I always measure out the 7.2L in a glass container I keep handy in 1L increments but, on this oil change I just dumped in the contents of the 4.4L container and measured out the rest. When I leave work today I know if this is solved.