Let's talk lockers

[dci blair]

A friend of mine has an 11 taco and he's getting ready to pull the trigger on an ARB air locker for the rear diff. Tonight he sent me a link for Yukon Grizzly locker.

Seems the grizzly locker is much simpler as it is mechanical, and it's also 1/3 the of the air locker or the eaton e locker.

Anyone have experience with the grizzly set up or opinions on the subject?

 

[Stoshu]

IMO - All depends on what he or she is looking to do. The ARB's are nice because they are selectable, meaning it is instantaneously on when you want it and off when not needed, leaving you with an open diff. The drawback is the upfront cost, much more complicated installation, and the need for air pressure to actuate.

The Yukon (Lock-Rite, Detroit, Aussie, et al) are mechanical lockers, which simply put, means they engage "automatically". This is a bit of a misnomer as they are basically always working. The installation is a breeze and can be completed in less than an hour without even removing the wheels and tires. FWIW, I had Lock-Rite's in my 60 F/R and they definitely lock the differential. Problem with them is they can be noisy on dry pavement, especially in tight turns as they tend to click and pop with the different turning radius of the rear wheels. This really didn't bother me as much as the unsettling feeling on snow and ice in a turn. They can be a real handful when the locker engages and both wheels want to spin at the same speed (makes the rear end want to step out of line pretty fast). Also, I would never recommend one for a front diff, as it makes steering virtually impossible in 4WD.

If the truck is used primarily as a daily driver and occasionally wheeled, I would suggest they spend the dough on the ARB set up. They'll be much happier with the drivability and the option to switch it on and off at will.

Just my $.02

 

[rubicondon53]

IMO - All depends on what he or she is looking to do. The ARB's are nice because they are selectable, meaning it is instantaneously on when you want it and off when not needed, leaving you with an open diff. The drawback is the upfront cost, much more complicated installation, and the need for air pressure to actuate.

The Yukon (Lock-Rite, Detroit, Aussie, et al) are mechanical lockers, which simply put, means they engage "automatically". This is a bit of a misnomer as they are basically always working. The installation is a breeze and can be completed in less than an hour without even removing the wheels and tires. FWIW, I had Lock-Rite's in my 60 F/R and they definitely lock the differential. Problem with them is they can be noisy on dry pavement, especially in tight turns as they tend to click and pop with the different turning radius of the rear wheels. This really didn't bother me as much as the unsettling feeling on snow and ice in a turn. They can be a real handful when the locker engages and both wheels want to spin at the same speed (makes the rear end want to step out of line pretty fast). Also, I would never recommend one for a front diff, as it makes steering virtually impossible in 4WD.

If the truck is used primarily as a daily driver and occasionally wheeled, I would suggest they spend the dough on the ARB set up. They'll be much happier with the drivability and the option to switch it on and off at will.

Just my $.02

I'll second that opinion. Years ago a good friend of mine asked me to retrieve his wife and his dually pickup truck from her workplace. She simply could not drive in the snow. He didn't warn me that it was equipped with a Detroit locker. We got about half way home, 5 miles or so, and I parked it. Found a phone booth and gave him a call to come get us. It was impossible to drive that thing on snow covered roads. Get the ARB.

 

[shmukster]

My 40 has a Detroit in the rear and an 80 series electric locker in the front axle. The rear axle bangs and clangs a lot when making a tight turn on dry pavement. While at Moab with its outstanding traction last year it caused the rear tires to "chirp" a thousand times. It really does lock the rear wheels. I don't drive the truck at highway speeds in snow so that aspect doesn't concern me. The electric locker in front works well and like Stosh said, when unlocked allows steering effort to be normal.
I've had the lunchbox lockers (Aussie, etc) in several of my vehicles and they worked well. Some lock a little harder than others I couldn't explain why. Steve Colavito has one in the rear of his Toyota mini truck and hates it because of the way it makes his truck "dangerous" in wet or snowy weather at highway speeds.
My new (to me anyway) HDJ81 has factory e-lockers front and rear and also has a locking center diff. They're as good as anything you can get although some would prefer an ARB to an e-locker. My friend Chris Stearns in his animal 80 is an example.
ARB's are expensive but work well. There's a lot of them out there being put to good use. If you can afford an ARB it's a good way to go. Having onboard air can be an unexpected asset in some situations, too.
My two cents!

 

[dci blair]

Thanks guys. Pretty much the answer I was looking for. He's got the money to spend on an ARB, he just happened to find the Grizzly while trolling through all-pro's website. He asked me, I figured I'd ask the guys who would know. Appriciate the input.

 

[jamarquardt22]

Why not look for a taco elocker axle assembly? It may have the same gear ratio and need nothing more then wireing, u bolts and fresh gear lube.
The grizzly is not a lunchbox type locker as stosh has implied. And in a taco it will require pulling the axle shafts and tires since there is no removable diff cover like a FJ62? or was it the 60's that have the cover. It is a full carrier replacement like a Detroit, ARB, Grizzly or a Yukon Zip locker(like a ARB) all will require setting up gears that can be a pita.

Daily driven I strongly suggest a selectable locker. Air or electric, I have e lockers front and rear, I like to turn and I drive on the road in rain and snow. factory Toy lockers are not that hard to wire to a momentary DTDP switch.

Trail rig? then what ever makes you happy.

 

[wardharris]

ANOTHER OPTION - just sayin'.......

Yes, I am a vendor, yes, I am biased

More $$ than air or swapped OEM elocker, but replacement using original axle/housing.

Check out www.yotalockers.com - also the Tacoma World thread below is enlightening......

Front IFS E-Locker and 8.4" E-locker

 

[PAToyota]

Another option would be the Yukon Zip Locker - which is their version of an air locker.

 

[Mtnchap]

ANOTHER OPTION - just sayin'.......

Yes, I am a vendor, yes, I am biased

More $$ than air or swapped OEM elocker, but replacement using original axle/housing.

Check out www.yotalockers.com - also the Tacoma World thread below is enlightening......

Front IFS E-Locker and 8.4" E-locker

View attachment 1401578

What's the warranty like on one of these? Have you seen much failure? Do they have a similar mechanical design as say an arb?

 

[wardharris]

What's the warranty like on one of these? Have you seen much failure? Do they have a similar mechanical design as say an arb?

@Mtnchap - thanks for asking

1. Warranty - 36 months as detailed in the instruction/owner booklet https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1062/0026/files/Harrop_Installation.pdf?15490857596633658332

2. Failures - Georg and I have brought in around 250 of these since 2015 and we have seen no service issues or failures. The Harrops have been available in Australia for over seven years and we know of no problem areas.

3. Design - The differential design is similar (four pinions, robust cage/housing, etc.) but the method and design of the actuation system is very different. The Harrop actuation consists of a ring magnet that is energized when the dash switch is engaged to send electrical current down the line. The magnet pushes a set of pins into matching receptors in the locker mechanism to engage/lock the diff. As opposed to air systems, there are no air lines, seals, gaskets, etc. - just electricity, so no moving parts except for the magnet. Harrop is a master regional distributor of Eaton - using licensed Eaton IP (intellectual property) and Eaton-sourced components to create a range of Harrop Eaton products for vehicles not otherwise supported by Eaton. A similar Eaton product using the ring/ramp/pin actuation system can be seen in this video

 

[Mtnchap]

@Mtnchap - thanks for asking

1. Warranty - 36 months as detailed in the instruction/owner booklet https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1062/0026/files/Harrop_Installation.pdf?15490857596633658332

2. Failures - Georg and I have brought in around 250 of these since 2015 and we have seen no service issues or failures. The Harrops have been available in Australia for over seven years and we know of no problem areas.

3. Design - The differential design is similar (four pinions, robust cage/housing, etc.) but the method and design of the actuation system is very different. The Harrop actuation consists of a ring magnet that is energized when the dash switch is engaged to send electrical current down the line. The magnet pushes a set of pins into matching receptors in the locker mechanism to engage/lock the diff. As opposed to air systems, there are no air lines, seals, gaskets, etc. - just electricity, so no moving parts except for the magnet. Harrop is a master regional distributor of Eaton - using licensed Eaton IP (intellectual property) and Eaton-sourced components to create a range of Harrop Eaton products for vehicles not otherwise supported by Eaton. A similar Eaton product using the ring/ramp/pin actuation system can be seen in this video

Thankyou for your response. I am totally sold on electric over air for my intended use. I just think their are too many fail points with air. Especially in a severe winter climate like I am in.

 

[wardharris]

Thankyou for your response. I am totally sold on electric over air for my intended use. I just think their are too many fail points with air. Especially in a severe winter climate like I am in.

Our pleasure. ARBs are fine and proven products, as are Harrop/Eatons. The two are just fundamentally different, but produce similar results. Kind of like Jeeps and Land Cruisers.

We try to stay away from talking about the other alternatives - focusing on what our product is and how it works. Users, customers and others in the market are better and more credible commentators in most cases.

On that note, I am happy to comment on my satisfaction with the PowerTank CO2 system I use for tires and tools vs. hard-wired OBA. Lots of elocker owners have gone this way....vid below. Steve Sasaki is the owner of the firm - great guy and owner of a beautiful first-gen 4Runner.

Good luck

 

[PAToyota]

Reading through things, I did notice the following:

One difference from air lockers is that the Harrop disengages when put in reverse and then re-engages when power is re-applied. Aggressive rocking front to rear is not recommended and usually not needed.

I know I’ve had more than a few times of descending something only to have to back up when things didn’t work out. That does give me a bit of pause.

I was going to ask about axles other than Toyota, but found this: ELocker | HARROP | Engineering, Superchargers, Brakes, Driveline, Engine, 4WD, Cooling

So there are options for the Dana 30/40/60 and Corporate 10-bolt, but not the 14-bolt.

 

[wardharris]

I know I’ve had more than a few times of descending something only to have to back up when things didn’t work out. That does give me a bit of pause.

So there are options for the Dana

Backing up, rocking, repeated reversing all fine. No reports of calamitous wedgies, stuck trucks or failed lockers from Harrop users.

We offered the "disengage upon reversal" description as disclosure, not caution.

We have seen one broken axle following over application of power in a Corvette powered BJ 73 (my old truck) but both Harrops were fine

Yes, we sell Harrops for many other vehicles besides Toyotas - Land Rovers, Isuzu, etc.

Please call if you have questions

 

[dci blair]

I was actually encouging him to go the route of the Harrop, but he wants the air locker. Main reason for him is cost. He can get the ARB and pump for pretty close to the same cost as the Harrop, and gets him oba at the same time. If he went the e-locker route he'd still need to drop some coin on a power tank.

At the end of the day it's his truck and his call. I would without a doubt go Harrop, and when I get around to doing a front locker I'll be going that direction.

 

[wardharris]

Seems the grizzly locker is much simpler as it is mechanical, and it's also 1/3 the of the air locker or the eaton e locker.

Why not look for a taco elocker axle assembly?

Daily driven I strongly suggest a selectable locker. Air or electric, I have e lockers front and rear, I like to turn and I drive on the road in rain and snow. factory Toy lockers are not that hard to wire to a momentary DTDP switch.

If he went the e-locker route he'd still need to drop some coin on a power tank.

At the end of the day it's his truck and his call. I would without a doubt go Harrop, and when I get around to doing a front locker I'll be going that direction.

@dci blair - In the end, a good decision by your friend. I jumped in on this thread in response to option of a OEM elocker as an alternative. My post was intended to offer a new elocker as an alternative to swapping in a used OEM elocker. Thanks for the kind words

 

[PAToyota]

Backing up, rocking, repeated reversing all fine. No reports of calamitous wedgies, stuck trucks or failed lockers from Harrop users.

We offered the "disengage upon reversal" description as disclosure, not caution.

Ok, now I’m unclear. Does it disengage in reverse or not?

 

[wardharris]

Ok, now I’m unclear. Does it disengage in reverse or not?

Yes. The locker disengages briefly when reversing direction.

"One difference from air lockers is that the Harrop disengages when put in reverse and then re-engages when power is re-applied."

Same thing happens when going from reverse to forward motion.

 

[wardharris]

I agree, unclear as quoted.....and I wrote it!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

And unclear it disengages. There is often enough bind in the locker that the pins ramp and unramp but the locked part of the side gear itself stays locked. You can't feel it unlock. Heck even if it did, it would relock in less than 1/3 of a wheel turn, not enough to notice. But me personally, I would not rock it. That's hard on all the parts. Harrop's instructions say specifically not to rock it.

I've used ARBs for 15 years and Harrops for 6 months, and honestly, in use, you can't tell the difference, other than the lack of compressor noise. I do miss the pssshhhhhh when you release the airlocker.

Also, installing an ARB compressor, unless you install the big expensive double barrel one, doesn't give you on board air. It gives you a small compressor that would work (slowly) to fill tires, but you'd be better off $ and time to use a $50 MT50 or whatever they are called now. For the price, those things rock.

If you want actually useful electric on board air, I HIGHLY recommend the Puma compressor. And, mount it on @LandCruiserPhil 's mount. It's simple and perfect. It's a great set up. The Puma makes enough 100 psi air, to actually be useful.