Let's Talk EVs

[onemanarmy]

I just wish the government and media wouldn't make it so polarizing. (fat chance)

Don't put ultimatums on what people can buy.
EVs will co-exist with gas and diesel cars and trucks for a long time.
Each has its pros and cons and not every one wants exactly the same thing.
ICE vehicles, especially older ones, are far less complex and temperamental than the ever increasing complicated EVs. A simple 4 cylinder manual transmission1996 Tacoma would serve a group of people better than a drive-by-cloud computing EV. And vice versa.
ICE has a place and EV has a place.
Why can't we all just get along?!

 

[jynx]

Interesting that you all started this convo, since Kalifornia basically just started the clock on all the things you all are talking about.

California bans sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035. Now the real work begins

Plenty of challenges lie ahead as California mandates zero-emission cars, including cost and access to charging.

www.latimes.com

 

[izzyandsue]

besides batteries and charging, the other item needing development and standardization is the overall rules for build and recovery. A few weeks back at a training event of a worldwide auto manufacturer for EV, civilian and government, a good part of the discussion and hands on training was recovery, where we need to save a life by breaking into an upside vehicle, or a vehicle hit with a mine. There are no unified standards for cutting open a rolled vehicle and avoiding getting “bit” by voltage (as one fireman put it), and how to deal with cracked and leaking battery cases. could be deadly for rescuers.

A former Tesla engineer was a speaker, and he said as engineers are moving between companies they are bringing some of the best practices with them to work into the designs. But ultimately the car company leaders would have to accept that and the cost associated with it, which of course will happen because all car manufacturers put safety over profits, always….

DOD may be the leader on the standards requirements for fuel cell security that may cascade down, but they also are working it, trying to figure out the what and the how of an evolving technology.

They are cool as hell, just need more development which takes time and money.

 

[NCFJ]

I took my first ride in an EV on Tuesday. A customer took me to lunch in his rented Tesla. COOL! Of course, he wants an LT4 in his 60. The quiet nature of the vehicle was so different than what we are accustomed to with ICE vehicles. Obviously EVs are the future and how cool the future will be. I truly hope to own one (swapped) before I perish. I just hope this particular old fart can figure them out enough to install in older vehicles.

 

[jynx]

@izzyandsue that is a good point. I've talked to several firemen who have complained about there being a major issue with fighting an EV fire. One guy said they called the manufacturer while a vehicle was burning and they were trying to tell the firemen to get inside and disconnect the battery before continuing. They were like F that, and just basically had to watch it burn. I've read other stories about similar issues. Fire and rescue instruction should also be in the mix.

 

[NCFJ]

Then there is this guy.................

 

[izzyandsue]

I took my first ride in an EV on Tuesday. A customer took me to lunch in his rented Tesla. COOL! Of course, he wants an LT4 in his 60. The quiet nature of the vehicle was so different than what we are accustomed to with ICE vehicles. Obviously EVs are the future and how cool the future will be. I truly hope to own one (swapped) before I perish. I just hope this particular old fart can figure them out enough to install in older vehicles.

Got to stop using ICE Art, some of us automatically look over our shoulders looking for bald, angry fat guys with dark windbreakers looking for us!

 

[weejub]

Then there is this guy.................

That looks wrong from a couple angles - 1. No one is in the boat as it floats off the trailer? I mean . . fatty here would rather be in there at some point prior. 2. Can those trucks handle that much water? Reminds me of the dude trying to submerge his Tesla video.

 

[izzyandsue]

43” wading depth! The New defenders are around 35”, for reference, and they were top class. Some EVs can drive partially submerged in certain extreme applications.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Keeping mouth shut (1st-hand is welcome) nothing to share after 2 years of ownership, enjoying the discussion

 

[roadstr6]

I can see how the current iteration of EV would be ideal if you lived on a barrier island like Jerry does...or in an urban environment.

 

[KliersLC]

So, oil is a finite resource, right?
Cobalt/lithium etc are also finite?

The interesting thing about all of this is that our technology is hampered by one problem--energy storage. We've had Jet packs since the 50s, and the ability to built flying cars before "back to the future" was filmed. In all cases, we can't figure out how to put enough potential energy onto something to make it work in a way that is significantly different than the status quo (modern airplanes and gasoline powered cars)

Until we have a compact, safe, and affordable means of power generation---something along the lines of the Ironman arc reactor, a lot of this is just theory. Batteries can be charged really quickly, but they lose capacity when you do that, and nobody will buy a car that needs a new battery after 6 months. So until we invest heavily in nuclear power, make a profit selling the excess, and then investing that profit into the grid, EVs will not expand past a small percentage of cars on the road. Even once that happens, we'll start running into raw materials shortages, so the concurrent development of better batteries, recycling old batteries, and reclaiming raw materials is critical.

Anyhow, I see a lot of cart before the horse type of messaging from the auto manufacturers, and meanwhile, California can't even keep the power on in the summer.

So, what then? I'd argue that making a quality vehicle that lasts more than 10 years does more for the environment than any of the green energy initiatives. I don't have energy numbers off of the top of my head, but I drove my 80 series from 2003-2020, and my 100 series is 23 years old with 270k. Both of them will last another 20 years with proper maintenance and some luck. I'd wager that the energy to build produce and operate a quality vehicle for 30 years is significantly less than the energy to build produce and operate ten new EVs that are driven for three years and then discarded.

Until someone can demonstrate that buying a brand new car is better for the environment than keeping my old one, I'll be over here putting around in the 100.

Since the government wants to get involved, how about mandating that everyone drive their new cars for 10 years before getting another new one? That would surely do more for the environment than everything else we are doing.

 

[izzyandsue]

I still love EVs, but this is funny rat there. In my civic duty running the Meck count board on waste management, EV trucks, buses, and heavy equipment are always on the agenda, with waste to energy regeneration, so stories like this are close to my reality. Great ideas and products still needing to work out shortcomings by scientistas and engineers. Politicians will mostly lie or just go with the popular winds, but the career people, i.e. county manager, are pushing hard to get things started with more EVs.

 

[open country]

So, what then? I'd argue that making a quality vehicle that lasts more than 10 years does more for the environment than any of the green energy initiatives. I don't have energy numbers off of the top of my head, but I drove my 80 series from 2003-2020, and my 100 series is 23 years old with 270k. Both of them will last another 20 years with proper maintenance and some luck. I'd wager that the energy to build produce and operate a quality vehicle for 30 years is significantly less than the energy to build produce and operate ten new EVs that are driven for three years and then discarded.

Until someone can demonstrate that buying a brand new car is better for the environment than keeping my old one, I'll be over here putting around in the 100.

Since the government wants to get involved, how about mandating that everyone drive their new cars for 10 years before getting another new one? That would surely do more for the environment than everything else we are doing.

I'd be interested in seeing a study on personal cost and environmental impact of keeping a gas guzzler long-term versus buying a new EV every 3-ish years (I think that's average lease period). I've used the longevity argument of my cruisers (60 and 100 series with 500k combined miles) to offset fuel & environmental cost but haven't done or seen any real science for it.

 

[SFROMAN]

Clowns…

 

[NCFJ]

California to residents "You must have EVs, but errrrr don't charge them we are expecting black outs."

Idiots

 

[pawwright]

View attachment 3098695
Keeping mouth shut (1st-hand is welcome) nothing to share after 2 years of ownership, enjoying the discussion

That house looks like it's begging for solar, unless it's on the other side .

 

[weejub]

So, oil is a finite resource, right?
Cobalt/lithium etc are also finite?

The interesting thing about all of this is that our technology is hampered by one problem--energy storage. We've had Jet packs since the 50s, and the ability to built flying cars before "back to the future" was filmed. In all cases, we can't figure out how to put enough potential energy onto something to make it work in a way that is significantly different than the status quo (modern airplanes and gasoline powered cars)

Until we have a compact, safe, and affordable means of power generation---something along the lines of the Ironman arc reactor, a lot of this is just theory. Batteries can be charged really quickly, but they lose capacity when you do that, and nobody will buy a car that needs a new battery after 6 months. So until we invest heavily in nuclear power, make a profit selling the excess, and then investing that profit into the grid, EVs will not expand past a small percentage of cars on the road. Even once that happens, we'll start running into raw materials shortages, so the concurrent development of better batteries, recycling old batteries, and reclaiming raw materials is critical.

Anyhow, I see a lot of cart before the horse type of messaging from the auto manufacturers, and meanwhile, California can't even keep the power on in the summer.

So, what then? I'd argue that making a quality vehicle that lasts more than 10 years does more for the environment than any of the green energy initiatives. I don't have energy numbers off of the top of my head, but I drove my 80 series from 2003-2020, and my 100 series is 23 years old with 270k. Both of them will last another 20 years with proper maintenance and some luck. I'd wager that the energy to build produce and operate a quality vehicle for 30 years is significantly less than the energy to build produce and operate ten new EVs that are driven for three years and then discarded.

Until someone can demonstrate that buying a brand new car is better for the environment than keeping my old one, I'll be over here putting around in the 100.

Since the government wants to get involved, how about mandating that everyone drive their new cars for 10 years before getting another new one? That would surely do more for the environment than everything else we are doing.

I was SOO going to reference Ironman's reactor as well LOL.

 

[izzyandsue]

Oztralia is getting in

 

[open country]

Clowns…

For the sake of fair context, CA was "suggesting" reducing overall electricity consumption from 4-9PM for a 10-day period during the heatwave. Definitely exposes some grid flaws, but it's not a sign they can't handle electric vehicles at all.