LC250 towing (1 Viewer)

[AndrewTK]

The TFL guys took a 1958 and ran it on their towing test in Colorado along with a non-hybrid Tacoma. Said they were towing 5,500 lbs so ~90% of max capacity on the LC250. Couple of interesting thoughts:

• Downhill performance was worse on the LC250, it required more brake applications than the Tacoma to maintain speed. I was surprised by this as I expected the hybrid system to assist in braking to help regenerate some battery capacity (I know this works on EVs, perhaps the hybrid isn’t designed the same?)
• The Tacoma doesnt come with a brake controller at the trim level they have (cheap ass move by Toyota)
• The brake controller in the LC250 didnt work, ultimately they resorted to using the portable brake controller they had for the Tacoma
• Uphill the LC250 seemed to perform well, it got worse mileage than the Tacoma based on the on board computer but the powertrain was able to pull the load up the 8 mile pass and maintain the speed limit the whole way. I think this alleviates some concerns about the hybrid system’s ability to handle steep mountain passes.
• The gauge cluster seems to have a privacy filter on it that prevents the passenger from seeing anything displayed. Not sure if this is a quirk with their press car or if they are all that way, I dont understand why Toyota would add this.

video below

 

[Fort9378]

The TFL guys took a 1958 and ran it on their towing test in Colorado along with a non-hybrid Tacoma. Said they were towing 5,500 lbs so ~90% of max capacity on the LC250. Couple of interesting thoughts:

• Downhill performance was worse on the LC250, it required more brake applications than the Tacoma to maintain speed. I was surprised by this as I expected the hybrid system to assist in braking to help regenerate some battery capacity (I know this works on EVs, perhaps the hybrid isn’t designed the same?)
• The Tacoma doesnt come with a brake controller at the trim level they have (cheap ass move by Toyota)
• The brake controller in the LC250 didnt work, ultimately they resorted to using the portable brake controller they had for the Tacoma
• Uphill the LC250 seemed to perform well, it got worse mileage than the Tacoma based on the on board computer but the powertrain was able to pull the load up the 8 mile pass and maintain the speed limit the whole way. I think this alleviates some concerns about the hybrid system’s ability to handle steep mountain passes.
• The gauge cluster seems to have a privacy filter on it that prevents the passenger from seeing anything displayed. Not sure if this is a quirk with their press car or if they are all that way, I dont understand why Toyota would add this.

video below

I don't think it's a privacy filter so much as just the type of display being used.

The LC250 does not have regenerative braking.

The brake controller issue is weird. Hopefully it's a simple fix and not on all vehicles

 

[AndrewTK]

I don't think it's a privacy filter so much as just the type of display being used.

The LC250 does not have regenerative braking.

The brake controller issue is weird. Hopefully it's a simple fix and not on all vehicles

I wasnt sure about the braking and after checking it looks like you are correct, no mention of it anywhere in the details about the powertrain. Interestingly the Tundra with the hybrid does have regenerative braking and uses a similar system, I wonder why they opted to exclude on the LC250?

 

[auggafj80]

My concern is trailer max length. I tow a 30’ trailer with a pontoon, about 4500lbs total with my 200. About 50-60 mph front end starts to feel like it’s going to lift. Been on back roads mostly so need to go any faster than that but might have to hit a highway at some point. Wonder if the 250 would be better?

 

[Rednexus]

My concern is trailer max length. I tow a 30’ trailer with a pontoon, about 4500lbs total with my 200. About 50-60 mph front end starts to feel like it’s going to lift. Been on back roads mostly so need to go any faster than that but might have to hit a highway at some point. Wonder if the 250 would be better?

That's probably a function of wheelbase and tow vehicle weight, plus your hitch setup (i.e., normal or WDH and any aux bags). Both the 250 and the 200 have the same wheelbase, and I think the 250 is a little bit lighter. So, it might tow a bit worse than a 200.

I will say that a 30' trailer is kind of long for a SUV that isn't a Suburban. I'd probably want a pickup for towing that length of trailer - or maybe a Sequoia that has 6" more wheelbase than the LC.

 

[wngrog]

Yeah you can’t see the display from the passenger side. It’s weird.

 

[AndrewTK]

Yeah you can’t see the display from the passenger side. It’s weird.

That is strange, and not something I recall seeing mentioned about the Tacoma anywhere. Seems odd that Toyota would use a different type of LCD display in the LC250.

 

[thammer62]

The TFL guys took a 1958 and ran it on their towing test in Colorado along with a non-hybrid Tacoma. Said they were towing 5,500 lbs so ~90% of max capacity on the LC250. Couple of interesting thoughts:

• Downhill performance was worse on the LC250, it required more brake applications than the Tacoma to maintain speed. I was surprised by this as I expected the hybrid system to assist in braking to help regenerate some battery capacity (I know this works on EVs, perhaps the hybrid isn’t designed the same?)
• The Tacoma doesnt come with a brake controller at the trim level they have (cheap ass move by Toyota)
• The brake controller in the LC250 didnt work, ultimately they resorted to using the portable brake controller they had for the Tacoma
• Uphill the LC250 seemed to perform well, it got worse mileage than the Tacoma based on the on board computer but the powertrain was able to pull the load up the 8 mile pass and maintain the speed limit the whole way. I think this alleviates some concerns about the hybrid system’s ability to handle steep mountain passes.
• The gauge cluster seems to have a privacy filter on it that prevents the passenger from seeing anything displayed. Not sure if this is a quirk with their press car or if they are all that way, I dont understand why Toyota would add this.

video below

Thanks for posting. Helpful video.

 

[auggafj80]

That's probably a function of wheelbase and tow vehicle weight, plus your hitch setup (i.e., normal or WDH and any aux bags). Both the 250 and the 200 have the same wheelbase, and I think the 250 is a little bit lighter. So, it might tow a bit worse than a 200.

I will say that a 30' trailer is kind of long for a SUV that isn't a Suburban. I'd probably want a pickup for towing that length of trailer - or maybe a Sequoia that has 6" more wheelbase than the LC.

Thank you for reaffirming what I was thinking. Too long of a trailer for the wheelbase. I have a normal hitch setup. No airbags. The lakes I put in are all within an hour and don’t require highways or really above 50 miles per hour. So the 200 will do for now.

 

[Boston Mangler]

• Downhill performance was worse on the LC250, it required more brake applications than the Tacoma to maintain speed. I was surprised by this as I expected the hybrid system to assist in braking to help regenerate some battery capacity (I know this works on EVs, perhaps the hybrid isn’t designed the same?)

Its not. I had a Prius. There is no (or close to none) engine braking when going downhill.

 

[Rednexus]

Thank you for reaffirming what I was thinking. Too long of a trailer for the wheelbase. I have a normal hitch setup. No airbags. The lakes I put in are all within an hour and don’t require highways or really above 50 miles per hour. So the 200 will do for now.

Your rig might handle quite a bit better with a WDH, which would transfer some of the tongue weight to the front axle and help with the front end lightness you mentioned. Our trailer is only ~24' long collapsed but about 4,000# and my smaller GX470 has no problem pulling it 70 mph while feeling quite stable. We have a Reese WDH setup (with chains) but lots of others make WDHs at various price points.

 

[Rednexus]

Its not. I had a Prius. There is no (or close to none) engine braking when going downhill.

Our Highlander Hybrid goes right into charge mode when braking. It takes some getting used to, but in our hybrid there is nothing wrong with riding the brakes downhill, and I've had to change my driving habits to not put it into manual mode and not use engine braking on long downhills. Brake application means you are just charging the battery. It is noticeable when the hydraulic brakes kick in, and the charge/status monitor will also bottom out.

 

[OSS]

Granted that my experience with regenerative braking is only with an electric scooter…. But my years of riding it have revealed that regenerative braking doesn’t charge the battery significantly.
Yeah, sure it’ll put a few watts in for a few seconds, but you’ll never notice any voltage difference after braking.
My conclusion is….
Regenerative braking looks good on paper but in real world use, the only thing it “does” is minimize brake pad wear.

 

[carboncycles]

The screen is probably polarized to help viewing angles. One of the biggest complaints IMO with the infotainment dash (dashes in general) with older Toyotas was viewing angle in very strong/direct sunlight. The 550 I drove on a very sunny day w/out tinted windows allowed me to easily view the dashes and see the relevant information.

 

[Rednexus]

Granted that my experience with regenerative braking is only with an electric scooter…. But my years of riding it have revealed that regenerative braking doesn’t charge the battery significantly.
Yeah, sure it’ll put a few watts in for a few seconds, but you’ll never notice any voltage difference after braking.
My conclusion is….
Regenerative braking looks good on paper but in real world use, the only thing it “does” is minimize brake pad wear.

Our Highlander battery monitor will go from maybe 3/8 charged to 7/8 charged or fully charged when heading down a big grade out West. Around here where our hills are less high, it might recharge maybe 1/8 on the charge monitor on a 200-500 ft high hill. But, it absolutely charges the battery and you can definitely feel it charging and see it charging via the monitor (which shows which direction power/current is flowing from each axle). An electric motor is, after all, just a generator in reverse. It will also charge slightly when coasting without brake application. It's really a very good system.

The LC250 is a performance hybrid as opposed to an economy hybrid so it might operate a bit differently.

 

[basalt51]

Granted that my experience with regenerative braking is only with an electric scooter…. But my years of riding it have revealed that regenerative braking doesn’t charge the battery significantly.
Yeah, sure it’ll put a few watts in for a few seconds, but you’ll never notice any voltage difference after braking.
My conclusion is….
Regenerative braking looks good on paper but in real world use, the only thing it “does” is minimize brake pad wear.

Regen braking can be huge, especially in the mountains to assist is controlling your speed downhill. Why not ALSO recover some energy?

I test drove a 1958 yesterday, and when I let off the throttle it slowed itself down a bunch. It was very noticeable when it kicked in. I asked the salesman if it was regenerative braking and he said yes. Either its not documented, or he didn't know what he was talking about. It definitely did something. It was in Eco mode. Will it brake coming up to a stop sign on its own? Not sure if that was the case, but maybe? There were no vehicles in front of me.

 

[basalt51]

When possible, avoid sudden stops to maximize regenerative braking energy.

From the Quick reference Manual, under the "i-Force Max Hybrid System" section.

■Regenerative braking In the following situations, kineticenergy is converted to electricenergy and deceleration force canbe obtained in conjunction with therecharging of the hybrid battery(traction battery).●The accelerator pedal is releasedwhile driving with the shift positionin D or M.●The brake pedal is depressedwhile driving with the shift positionin D or M

From the owner's manual. And tons of other regenerative braking references.

https://assets.sia.toyota.com/publications/en/om-s/OM60U35U/pdf/OM60U35U.pdf

 

[ryanjl]

Regen braking can be huge, especially in the mountains to assist is controlling your speed downhill. Why not ALSO recover some energy?

I test drove a 1958 yesterday, and when I let off the throttle it slowed itself down a bunch. It was very noticeable when it kicked in. I asked the salesman if it was regenerative braking and he said yes. Either its not documented, or he didn't know what he was talking about. It definitely did something. It was in Eco mode. Will it brake coming up to a stop sign on its own? Not sure if that was the case, but maybe? There were no vehicles in front of me.

The TFL video had it in "tow haul" mode. Wonder if that gets rid of the regenerative braking for some reason.

 

[basalt51]

The TFL video had it in "tow haul" mode. Wonder if that gets rid of the regenerative braking for some reason.

No indication of that in the manual and it would make no sense since you would want the braking assist while towing. They did indicate that they filled the battery up and it was nearly full when they started. I imagine then it would stop regen braking.

 

[ScoMey]

The video mentions that during their test, that engine oil and transmission oil temperatures were OK and that there was no overheating... for those of you who now own a 250/550, or have poked around underneath the hood... is either vehicle equipped with an auxilairy external trans oil cooler, or are they equipped with just the standard one integrated into the radiator?