L-shocks Without J-springs

[ShottsUZJ100]

How many of you out there are running L-shocks without J-springs? I am in the 80 and have been for 3 years without issue. (863 and 850 + L-shocks F&R) I hear though that springs can come out with the L-shocks and that makes sense. Anybody had it happen though?

 

[concretejungle]

put some homemade limiting straps on.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

put some homemade limiting straps on.

Things have been fine with our 80. HERE'S THE DEAL:

I want to add rear L-shocks to the 100. Christo told me (and he knows this stuff) that I shouldn't because I don't have rear Js on the 100. Well I don't on the 80 either and things have been fine.

So, I wondered if anybody's springs have popped out.

I may try anyhow and for safety use your idea of the straps. I just wantthe same travel on the 100 as I have on the 80. It makes a difference.

 

[Junk]

You don't wheel so what are you afraid of; them popping out at the mall?

 

[Curran]

John,
Is Christo's warning based off of the risk of a spring falling out or the risk of bottoming out the internals of the longer shock? I think that damaging the longer shock would be the bigger issue.
I think that you's be hard pressed to flex the front enough to get the springs out (especially with the front sway bar.) The rear springs would be at a greater risk but that could be solved with some spring retainers or drop-out cones.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

You don't wheel so what are you afraid of; them popping out at the mall?

Damn. I knew I should stay out of the 80 section.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John,
Is Christo's warning based off of the risk of a spring falling out or the risk of bottoming out the internals of the longer shock? I think that damaging the longer shock would be the bigger issue.
I think that you's be hard pressed to flex the front enough to get the springs out (especially with the front sway bar.) The rear springs would be at a greater risk but that could be solved with some spring retainers or drop-out cones.

I have my bump stops lowered in the rear as needed in both the 80 and 100. Wish I could look at the shocks side-by-side!

 

[Tools R Us]

Spring retaining straps are easy to make for the 80, don't know about the 100? Brother Rob unseated a J spring, so we made straps for his. I don't have any pictures here maybe at home?

 

[sleeoffroad]

John,
Is Christo's warning based off of the risk of a spring falling out or the risk of bottoming out the internals of the longer shock? I think that damaging the longer shock would be the bigger issue.
I think that you's be hard pressed to flex the front enough to get the springs out (especially with the front sway bar.) The rear springs would be at a greater risk but that could be solved with some spring retainers or drop-out cones.

John is talking about the rears. The shock will allow the spring to become unseated if you run a L shock with a 860, 863 or 864 rear spring. The cone will hold it in place, but no guarantee the bottom can not pop out. Also John is running packers on top of his rear springs on the 100 and they can fall out as well.

If you add limiting straps, then why are you doing longer shocks?

The way to do it is clamp the spring top, bottom or both. That way you are sure the spring will not become unseated.

I would assume anyone doing this would make sure they do not overcompress the shocks.

 

[landtank]

how much of a problem is this with your 4" springs and the L shocks?

maybe should have asked this before ordering

 

[Pskhaat]

As a 100 question, are the 80 series rear springs the same as what can be used on the 100?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John is talking about the rears. The shock will allow the spring to become unseated if you run a L shock with a 860, 863 or 864 rear spring. The cone will hold it in place, but no guarantee the bottom can not pop out. Also John is running packers on top of his rear springs on the 100 and they can fall out as well.

If you add limiting straps, then why are you doing longer shocks?

The way to do it is clamp the spring top, bottom or both. That way you are sure the spring will not become unseated.

I would assume anyone doing this would make sure they do not overcompress the shocks.

No packers in the 100 anymore (just in the 80).
I might find a way to secure the spring and I might not. I've ran the L's with 863's for a long time and OK. I might take the same risk with the 100 though I might secure the spring for assurance.

I've also lowered my b-stop 2" so compression should be OK.

The question is will they fit on the 100 without or with a shock bushing swap-out? If so, I'm ready to try and evaluate.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

As a 100 question, are the 80 series rear springs the same as what can be used on the 100?

Swappable yes. Different height a spr rates exist though.

 

[semlin]

Christo, has this unpacking ever happened? I mention it because AFAIK the "neutral" lift N70/N71E shocks for zero lift are exactly the same length and travel as the N73/N74 medium lifts and you actually use n73/n74 in your neutral rig "replacement" suspension. lengths are 614/354 front, 620/370 rear, yielding net travel of 260mm & 250 mm.

The L shocks 667/ 387 and are 57 to 63 mm longer (just over 2") and have travel of 280 mm or 20 to 30 mm (roughly 1").

So by my math, if L shocks are less than 2.5 inches longer than shocks suitable for zero lift, they should be safe for springs that are 2.5" above zero lif, including the medium and heavy lifts with no packers. The extra 1" of travel makes no difference because the maximum shock length is the key for this issue but even if it does, I would think heavies and especially heavies with packers would qualify.

 

[clownmidget]

Um, I know this will sound like a pain in the butt...but...

if you are going to experiment with your particular truck then why not just pull your rear shocks, make sure all the ABS wires are free, check brake lines, and then use either a ramp, a forklift, or a convenient rock and stuff one wheel and MEASURE how short your shock should be when it's compressed and axle is on the bumpstop. Go over to flexed side and MEASURE how long your shock should be when it's extended. It's not too time consuming and then you can more accurately know how well your springs, bumpstops, brake lines, ABS wires, and eventually shocks are doing.

Without a little experimenting like this it sounds a lot like you are guessing whether or not you are over-compressing and/or over-extending your shocks.

just a thought

 

[Tools R Us]

John, with your extreme poser, don't take a picture unless there at least 2' of air under the tire wheeling style, your going to have issues with the packers. The bottom of the spring is easy to retain and the top reseats reliably, if it's the same type setup as the 80. The packers will get wadded up if the top unseats, so there are some options.

1: Replace the springs with proper height ones and ditch the packers.

2: Retain the top and bottom of the springs. The retainer for the top on the 80 is somewhat more difficult to make.

3: Machine a spacer to replace the packers that can be bolted or tack welded to the upper spring perch allowing the spring to reseat reliably.

Next time your in the big city stop by and I will have a look at it. You do realize that by allowing more droop it's going to be harder to get them 2' wheel lift poser shots, right?

 

[Tools R Us]

:whoops: No packers.

If your changing shocks why stay with the OME's? Get some nice bling Bilstein 7100's like LandCruiserPhil has.

 

[sleeoffroad]

> Christo, has this unpacking ever happened? I mention it because AFAIK the "neutral" lift N70/N71E shocks for zero lift are exactly the same length and travel as the N73/N74 medium lifts and you actually use n73/n74 in your neutral rig "replacement" suspension. lengths are 614/354 front, 620/370 rear, yielding net travel of 260mm & 250 mm.

When we install the lifts at the shop and the truck is on the hoist, we can see that the spring is loose. With a 861/862 and normal N73/N74E's this is not the case. It has to do with the free length of the spring.

We see the same thing on the front with out 4" spring and L shocks. However it is unlikely that the front can be flexed to the extend that the L shock is maxed out. When on the hoist, the you drop both sides of the axle. In reality on the trail this never happens to the front or the rear. But the rear can flex until you reach the limit of the shock.

I am not sure what the big deal is with the rear flex. The more it flexes the more rear-steer you get and that can sometimes mess you up more.

 

[sleeoffroad]

2: Retain the top and bottom of the springs. The retainer for the top on the 80 is somewhat more difficult to make.

This would be the best way to do it. It is amazing how much more stability you get with springs that are retained. I run 851/860's on the short bus with 2" spacers in the rear and about 4" spacers in the front. Shocks have about 12" of travel and I max them out. Pulling the springs appart adds a ton of stability and stops the truck from "unloading" at the wrong times.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John, with your extreme poser, don't take a picture unless there at least 2' of air under the tire wheeling style, your going to have issues with the packers. The bottom of the spring is easy to retain and the top reseats reliably, if it's the same type setup as the 80. The packers will get wadded up if the top unseats, so there are some options.

1: Replace the springs with proper height ones and ditch the packers.

2: Retain the top and bottom of the springs. The retainer for the top on the 80 is somewhat more difficult to make.

3: Machine a spacer to replace the packers that can be bolted or tack welded to the upper spring perch allowing the spring to reseat reliably.

Next time your in the big city stop by and I will have a look at it. You do realize that by allowing more droop it's going to be harder to get them 2' wheel lift poser shots, right?

I hope YOU'RE not coming on my trip Saturday!

The springs and packers have never come loose in the 80, even now without sway bars. That's why I wanna try the L-shocks in the 100. I'm thrilled with the 80 and really don't want to put any more $$$z into it.