King Shocks / Rear Springs Question (1 Viewer)

[arco9]

I have a 2014 Land Cruiser with King 2.5" front and rear shocks as well as rear Dobinsons Variable Rear Coil Springs. Other than that the vehicle is stock.

The overall lift is about 1.5 inches.

I really like the feel of the vehicle, it's amazing, except for one thing.

I have found out that these particular Dobinson springs are designed to have an extra 200-300 pounds of weight in the rear part of the vehicle. When loaded up with gear in the back, the feel of the vehicle is perfect. However, when the back of the vehicle is empty, these Dobinson springs have a little too much wiggle to them. I can't help but notice when something is off, so this bugs me.

Has anyone experienced this rear wiggle with these Dobinson springs or variable rear springs in general? Are there other rear springs that are known to pair well with the King shocks, given my setup?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[CharlieS]

I run OME 2721 rear springs with my Kings. I removed the third row seats and carry cargo boxes. I have about 2.5” of lift though.

 

[indycole]

Dobinsons and OME have a number of rear spring options for the 200. Rear springs tend to be a trial-and-error kind of thing... maybe check out some of the other options? Another tactic would be to keep something in the rear as a ballast when not hauling gear...

Dobinsons

• C59-559V, Variable, No Load, 1" Lift
• C59-545, Linear, No Load with 2" Lift OR 220-440 lb with 1-1/4" lift
• C59-547, Linear, 550-660 lb with 2" Lift OR 800 lb with 1-1/4"
• C59-549, Linear, 1100 lb with 2" Lift

OME

• 2720 No Load with -3/4" Lift (note negative lift)
• 2721 No Load with No Lift (Progressive)
• 2722 No Load with 3/4" Lift
• 2723 220-440 lb with 3/4" Lift
• 2724 440-880 lb with 3/4" Lift
• 2725 880-1300 lb with 3/4" Lift

 

[CharlieS]

Don’t believe the stated OME lift heights. Several reliable vendors told me they are not accurate.

 

[bloc]

Curious what OP means by "wiggle"..

Shudder from bumps? Side to side movement of the vehicle? Keep in mind that the taller you go in the rear, the less horizontal your panhard rod will be. This tends to introduce a side-to-side motion of the vehicle with up-down body/chassis movement, because of the arc that the panhard ends swing in during this movement.

That said, spring designers can go about handling extra load in a few ways.

One is to run a longer spring of the same rate, so that when you add weight, the vehicle ends up at the same height as before. This tends to be great for suspension travel and compliance, but as you add even more weight, the same thing happens.. significant sag.

Another is to use a higher rate spring, so that adding the weight doesn't sag as much. This will deal with additional weight better, but you'll give up total travel and compliance.

Then there are progressive rate springs...

Dobinsons/OME/etc are all trying to tune their springs to deliver the best of these compromises.

Basically, what @indycole said.. you'll likely need to trial-error this, along with doing research into what has worked for other people.


I will say this.. when I ordered my Kings Ben at Filthy was very clear.. the spring's primary job is to support the weight of the vehicle at ride height. Spring choice won't have much impact on damper performance, as long as it isn't sitting way too low or high such that you are on your bump stops or shock stroke limit.

Meaning you can probably run whatever will work for your height/load/ride requirements and the kings back there should be fine with it.

I'm running 2720s with King 2.5's in rear and love the setup, though my goal was to keep it a bit lower and a lot lighter than most people. That said.. the springs are short enough that they get loose in their buckets at full down-travel. So far it hasn't been a problem... but s*** happens and I don't want to find out the hard way that it turns into a problem. This likely wouldn't be a concern with stock length rear shocks, but the kings add some travel. I'll likely move up to 2721s eventually to address this.

 

[Jerz]

Thread revival and hijack! However of all the threads I have read about this topic, this thread is most relevant to what I am deciding.

My Kings are in from Ben at Filthy Motorsport and am in a dilemma with which rear coils to go with. I totally get it is trial and error but at least want to get the initial guess correct. I have an existing very tired entry level Dobinson lift with OME 2722's, came with the rig when I bought it. My current load in the rear is as follows:
tire = +62
rim = +30
Dissent bumper = +110
tire swing out = +57
tray swingout = +55
removed 3rd row seats = 42 x 2 = -84
Total current extra weight is +230
Currently I am overloaded for the OME 2722's as it feels like a Cadillac in the rear, nice a squishy. I have even hit bump stops on speed bumps.

I plan to add ARB drawers in the next month to add another 220 lbs. Which will take my weight to +450 lbs before I add tools, recovery gear, and camping equipment. I plan to leave all those items in there year round to keep the constant load constant. Then when trips come will add more weight. I never tow, have no plans for an LRA, and have no plans for rear air bags. I do understand the rear bumper and swingouts create more weight pressure as they are further from the coils and although the drawer system is heavy it is closer to the coils for a more 1:1 weight ratio. I am torn between the 2723's and 2724's solely based on what I have read and confirmed by the post above about the specs of these coils not being accurate. In the end looking for real world uses to help me decide from the community.

Everything I have read says the 2724's are more designed for LRA's, drawers, and rear bumpers which I lack the LRA. However with the weight I am proposing I fall in that 2724 category overall but afraid my rear may be much higher, rake, since I am on the low side of the 440-880 range. Are the 2724's the right play or should I go 2723's and be prepared to add 10mm spacers once everything settles in the rear?

 

[CharlieS]

King 2.5, OME 2721, Dissent rear with tire and jerrycan swingouts, LRA 12.5, loaded cargo boxes. Ride is excellent.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

The other option is to go lighter springs that you're happy with unladen and install airbags for when you load up.

 

[Jerz]

King 2.5, OME 2721, Dissent rear with tire and jerrycan swingouts, LRA 12.5, loaded cargo boxes. Ride is excellent.

This goes against everything I have read/learned over the past week on this forum. I mean I have 2722's and don't get me wrong the ride is nice as long as I don't hit bumps either slowly or on a freeway, or load up for trips, but man 2721's. Is it because they are progressive?

 

[Jerz]

The other option is to go lighter springs that you're happy with unladen and install airbags for when you load up.

I thought hard on this and did come to that conclusion that if I need a little helper for trips I would do this. But wanted to get coils in there first and get a loaded trip under my belt first.

 

[CharlieS]

This goes against everything I have read/learned over the past week on this forum. I mean I have 2722's and don't get me wrong the ride is nice as long as I don't hit bumps either slowly or on a freeway, or load up for trips, but man 2721's. Is it because they are progressive?

Not sure, I followed the guidance of Ben Brazda at Filthy Motorsports, where I bought everything.

I don't baby it, and I load it heavy at times. I do everything from cross country trips to mild rock crawling, as much trail driving as I can get, with a lot of day to day use on heavily washboarded dirt roads and two land roads. About 20k miles last year, and I work from home, with no commute.

I definitely can't speak to frequent urban driving, regular day to day freeway use, or anything in a city. I'm in a rural area and our closest city is like a big town everywhere else.

I think the progressive springs help, because it is in the softer part of the range unless it needs it.

As they say "your mileage may vary".

This post from Rob (was at Budbuilt and is a guru) might help explain it better than I can: ARB OME 2721s and Towing - Any experience? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/arb-ome-2721s-and-towing-any-experience.996963/post-11082143

 

[BadReligion]

I am running the Dobinson 559V coils in the rear and they are giving me about 2" of lift with a Dissent rear bumper (no swing outs) and a 12.5 LRA tank. I installed some 20mm spacers with everything but had too much rake and my rear was 2" higher than the front so I pulled those and now have about a 1" rake, which seems ideal for full time 4wd IFS. Ride is great. I had the rear end "wiggle" or sway until I welded in the panhard bracket, and now that is gone.

If you plan on occasional heavy loads but want good handling on a daily basis, run a lighter spring and just add airbags. They are cheap and easy to install.

 

[Jerz]

I am running the Dobinson 559V coils in the rear and they are giving me about 2" of lift with a Dissent rear bumper (no swing outs) and a 12.5 LRA tank. I installed some 20mm spacers with everything but had too much rake and my rear was 2" higher than the front so I pulled those and now have about a 1" rake, which seems ideal for full time 4wd IFS. Ride is great. I had the rear end "wiggle" or sway until I welded in the panhard bracket, and now that is gone.

If you plan on occasional heavy loads but want good handling on a daily basis, run a lighter spring and just add airbags. They are cheap and easy to install.

That was a fun 13 pages of reading/learning about the Panhead Bracket. Going to keep this in mind as maybe that is the wiggle I feel sometimes. This is why I enjoy this community. I came from TacomaWorld and learned a ton there reading and eventually became a sounding board for many with the many mods I had done. Still very new here but just a vast amount of knowledge still to learn.

 

[bentonrover]

Pretty interesting topic here. How would one's ride be if having a medium to heavy suspension without all the extra weight? Would it be noisy and harsh? Would the shocks be able to compress and do its job? Any links I can follow. I did look but not to much was discussed. Just curious and thinking out loud. Thanks

 

[Boston Mangler]

Send the shocks to King and have them install the adjustable clickers, makes a noticeable difference and the only way to get the best of both worlds

 

[onelittlestar]

Send the shocks to King and have them install the adjustable clickers, makes a noticeable difference and the only way to get the best of both worlds

After a lengthy conversation with KING on this in the past, buying a new set of rears and selling your old ones makes more sense

 

[Boston Mangler]

After a lengthy conversation with KING on this in the past, buying a new set of rears and selling your old ones makes more sense

Well yeah, because they want to sell you more stuff

Talk to any reputable suspension shop near ya if possible. It’s a very common after the fact upgrade

 

[onelittlestar]

Well yeah, because they want to sell you more stuff

Talk to any reputable suspension shop near ya if possible. It’s a very common after the fact upgrade

I priced it out on the phone with them and I wasn't expecting a shop to do the retrofit for me, I was going to do it in my garage...

**though current lead times on shock builds could certainly change the equation

 

[Jerz]

Thread revival and hijack! However of all the threads I have read about this topic, this thread is most relevant to what I am deciding.

My Kings are in from Ben at Filthy Motorsport and am in a dilemma with which rear coils to go with. I totally get it is trial and error but at least want to get the initial guess correct. I have an existing very tired entry level Dobinson lift with OME 2722's, came with the rig when I bought it. My current load in the rear is as follows:
tire = +62
rim = +30
Dissent bumper = +110
tire swing out = +57
tray swingout = +55
removed 3rd row seats = 42 x 2 = -84
Total current extra weight is +230
Currently I am overloaded for the OME 2722's as it feels like a Cadillac in the rear, nice a squishy. I have even hit bump stops on speed bumps.

I plan to add ARB drawers in the next month to add another 220 lbs. Which will take my weight to +450 lbs before I add tools, recovery gear, and camping equipment. I plan to leave all those items in there year round to keep the constant load constant. Then when trips come will add more weight. I never tow, have no plans for an LRA, and have no plans for rear air bags. I do understand the rear bumper and swingouts create more weight pressure as they are further from the coils and although the drawer system is heavy it is closer to the coils for a more 1:1 weight ratio. I am torn between the 2723's and 2724's solely based on what I have read and confirmed by the post above about the specs of these coils not being accurate. In the end looking for real world uses to help me decide from the community.

Everything I have read says the 2724's are more designed for LRA's, drawers, and rear bumpers which I lack the LRA. However with the weight I am proposing I fall in that 2724 category overall but afraid my rear may be much higher, rake, since I am on the low side of the 440-880 range. Are the 2724's the right play or should I go 2723's and be prepared to add 10mm spacers once everything settles in the rear?

Just dropping here for posteriority in case someone else in the future comes across this similar situation.

The Kings are on and I went with OME 2723's. My ARB right drawer (passenger side) is loaded with tools and recovery gear and my left drawer (driver) is loaded with camping items. My tire is also hanging on drivers side. My driver front shock collar probably has ~8 turns on it and passenger has zero. Everything is level within 1/8 inch for each corner of vehicle and then I tightened the KDSS valves. I do have zero rake so if I want that I can put either a 10mm or 15mm spacer with the OME 2723's to create that lift.

Went camping and wheeling over the Memorial Day weekend loaded and never hit bump stops. This is the perfect set up for me. The Cadillac feeling is gone and feels exactly like a lifted Land Cruiser should with comfort. I'll skip on the air bag for now until something changes.

I went to the landscape yard yesterday and had to get some product and I weighed in (less me, a kid, and a dog) at 6800 pounds.

Thanks again for all the input so I could make an educated assessment on the route to go!