keeping it ugly

[Tennessee Jed]

Kind of a weird question, but it's been rattling around in my head.

Is there anything to be said for keeping your cruiser "looking" ugly for driving in Mexico/Central America? By which I mean, what if you just fixed up the body well, repaired the rust to make the vehicle solid, then primed what needed to be primed, undercoated, etc., and didn't paint? It would look ugly as sin, but I keep hearing over and over "Try to blend in...don't stick out...don't look like a tourist..." To me nothing looks more touristy than a $3000 paint job.

Plus I'm a cheap bastid and would rather put the money some place else.

Thanks

 

[NorCalBorn]

As long as there's a seal coat to keep out moisture, it has been done before.

Some even go as far as to just throw on mismatched panels, or when getting replacements, deliberately choose an off color.

Nothing though will prevent someone who really wants your vehicle from taking it, and there's often little you can do after the fact, thus why private, secured parking or even a garage you can lock up is so sought after when finding accommodations.

 

[cruiser_guy]

There is much mis-information on Mexico and Central America. Trust me, they are not all out to swipe a gasser FJ60. I've spent 5 years down there, I know of what I speak.

The vehicles of choice for thieves in Mexico and Central America is a 22R powered one (4Runners and pickups), they are not running out after a 2F or 3FE powered 'Cruiser. Most thefts are for parts and parting out NOT entire vehicles.

The best you can do is tint your windows (ALL that your local jurisdiction allows and usually that's everything but the windshield and drivers/passengers windows) as dark as possible and keep all your possessions INSIDE the vehicle as much as possible. Avoid a trailer if at all possible, same goes for a roof top tent (I have one but I do not use it south of the US border).

 

[Tennessee Jed]

There is much mis-information on Mexico and Central America. Trust me, they are not all out to swipe a gasser FJ60. I've spent 5 years down there, I know of what I speak.

The vehicles of choice for thieves in Mexico and Central America is a 22R powered one (4Runners and pickups), they are not running out after a 2F or 3FE powered 'Cruiser. Most thefts are for parts and parting out NOT entire vehicles.

The best you can do is tint your windows (ALL that your local jurisdiction allows and usually that's everything but the windshield and drivers/passengers windows) as dark as possible and keep all your possessions INSIDE the vehicle as much as possible. Avoid a trailer if at all possible, same goes for a roof top tent (I have one but I do not use it south of the US border).

That's great advice. Why avoid a RTT? Is it advertising your tourist status, or is there some other reason? And is a trailer just too much of a temptation for people to grab things off of? (Propane tank, gas cans, spare tire, etc?)

What about in Baja? Would things be different there? I imagine there are lots of vehicles with surfboards, kayaks, bicycles, etc.

 

[cruiser_guy]

That's great advice. Why avoid a RTT? Is it advertising your tourist status, or is there some other reason? And is a trailer just too much of a temptation for people to grab things off of? (Propane tank, gas cans, spare tire, etc?)

What about in Baja? Would things be different there? I imagine there are lots of vehicles with surfboards, kayaks, bicycles, etc.

It's unsafe, in my opinion, to stay in a RTT on your own. There are no campgrounds as we know them other than in the touristy areas. The only one I know of in Guatemala is in Tikal and I would stay there without worry. Folks there simply don't go camping. Hotels can also be had very cheap if you look and are not one who needs all the conveniences of home. On my drive two weeks ago I staying in a hotel just south of the Mexican border in Guatemala for under $10 (no bugs and my own washroom/shower, fan, even a TV!). Not all hotels are that cheap but you can find them. We stay in Mazatlan for under $25 3 blocks off the beach. These sort of hotels might look shabby but I'm interested in a good nights sleep and lack of bugs and most offer that. A freshly painted room will not improve my sleep any. My motto is if the room doesn't move (you'll know what I mean after you see the real bad ones with roaches) it's probably OK. I also look for secure parking.

A trailer, besides being a liability in traffic and advertising all your stuff, means you have way too much stuff with you. We are able to travel with 4 people in our BJ60 and keep everything inside. If you can't do that I'd advise you to review what you are taking and ask "Do I REALLY need this?". If you ask that question you might be surprised at how little you really need. Obviously things like surf boards and than need to be carried outside the vehicle. As for gas cans, you can find stations everywhere and where there are none, someone local will have gas for sale. Just fill up before venturing too far afield.

The Baja is probably the only part of Mexico I have not spent much time in! Too touristy I'm thinking.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Thanks a million!

 

[EOE_overland]

I was wondering about this too. I've been told to keep my 62 junky looking (though for now it's cuz I'm too poor to paint) for heading into Mexico. I'm aware that keeping expensive items like winches and stuff off the exterior, if possible, is a good idea. But aside from lots of really expensive stuff plastered all over the truck... doesn't out-of-country plates give away the car much better than a reasonably-clean paint job? And the plates are unavoidable. I agree with doing what you can to keep a low profile, but the "junky look" was one thing I just haven't been completely sold on yet? Well, at least not doing it on purpose.
...though this is coming from someone whose LC is 1/3 covered in rustoleum lawn furniture paint ...so

 

[sandcruiser]

decent paint is ok.

Brand-spanking-new and flashy-looking paint is a liability.

If you don't paint in an attempt to save cash, then you'll blend right in with most of Central America

I disagree w/ the RTT comments. My wife and I camped in ours all over Central America, including many Mexican beaches. Not so much in Honduras or El Salvador. The money you spend on a tent will go a Loooooong ways on hotels. For sure.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Foreign plates are something that the cops seem to be able to see from miles away! I eventually figured the best is to follow a car and when a police checkpoint comes keep the plate hidden by the lead car as long as possible.

I have camped in Central America but I would not recommend it unless you are aware of where you are and what the local dangers might be. I wouldn't do it out in the open where folks can easily see you (having said that I have used it at the Costa Rican/Nicaraguan border for two nights because of paperwork issues).

 

[Bad Mojo]

About the plates is it possible to have just have them covered up by dirt or grim from say driving a dusty road? Or do they make you clean them off? Do you really receive much more hassle from being from out of country? Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge.

 

[sandcruiser]

out of country= bribes to many police.
the sad part is, I've heard many stories about people getting a shake down for far more than the possible value of a ticket.

best defense is to 1) try to learn what traffic violations are likely to cost. Around here, $20 is a *big* speeding ticket. 2) try to learn how/where you would have to pay a ticket. In CR any bank can accept payment for a ticket. It is easy. 3) With that knowledge, if stopped by the police, be polite. Smile. Accept a ticket vs. paying a bribe. Else you are just perpetuating the system.

Oh, and my strategy was to have dirty plates (easy to do when traveling down here) but also if stopped to immediately start asking questions of the officer.

Sorta like, "I'm so happy you stopped me! I need directions to [next city] and I'm wondering what the weather has been like/will be like, and do you think that the road is in good condition from here to [next city] and how long do you think it might take to get to the next border and do you have a favorite place around here to get some food and how far till the next gas station and and and "

usually, they recoil in horror and I drive away laughing quietly. Central American cops *hate* to work. Give them the impression that there is effort involved in stopping you, they are likely to wave you along.

Just my experience.

 

[cruiser_guy]

out of country= bribes to many police.
the sad part is, I've heard many stories about people getting a shake down for far more than the possible value of a ticket.

best defense is to 1) try to learn what traffic violations are likely to cost. Around here, $20 is a *big* speeding ticket. 2) try to learn how/where you would have to pay a ticket. In CR any bank can accept payment for a ticket. It is easy. 3) With that knowledge, if stopped by the police, be polite. Smile. Accept a ticket vs. paying a bribe. Else you are just perpetuating the system.

Oh, and my strategy was to have dirty plates (easy to do when traveling down here) but also if stopped to immediately start asking questions of the officer.

Sorta like, "I'm so happy you stopped me! I need directions to [next city] and I'm wondering what the weather has been like/will be like, and do you think that the road is in good condition from here to [next city] and how long do you think it might take to get to the next border and do you have a favorite place around here to get some food and how far till the next gas station and and and "

usually, they recoil in horror and I drive away laughing quietly. Central American cops *hate* to work. Give them the impression that there is effort involved in stopping you, they are likely to wave you along.

Just my experience.

The problem is, how do you know what the results are? The only problems I've had in 5 years in Central America were in Nicaragua and there I was told the drivers licence needs to go to Managua and you can pick it up in two weeks!! Hardly a workable solution to a traveller who knows there are cops every few miles who are only too happy to pull you over.

Is a photocopy of the licence and a BS story about the last cop taking the licence going to work there??

I found the Nicaraguan cops to be the most corrupt of all Central America by far. They cost me 600 cordobas over four days.

 

[sandcruiser]

My experience in Nica is also limited... but based on first hand stories, it is possible that they will take your license.

In general, I carry a color photocopy of my license, passport and vehicle docs all on one page (2 sides). I don't generally offer the originals.

Also based on other people's comments-- Nica is reputed to be very crooked in that regard. Best solution is to be religious about not speeding, keep all your lights/plates in good working order, and drive carefully. If pulled over at that point, you know you are in the right and can have a little attitude to back it up. Not mouth off, but be confident that you aren't in the wrong and not hand over your license, etc.

Part of the issue might be that in the States we are used to a tougher/trained/professional police force. most of the folks you meet in Central America are more like amateur cops. So you can take control to some degree.

I've never heard of anyone getting a beat-down for being disrespectful.

In CR, I just smile, laugh a lot, pretend you don't really understand --my spanish is fluent, but I still look confused in the face of objectionable requests... like instead of saying "no, I won't get out of the car in the rain" I say "You want to get in the car?" "Oh, you want me to roll the window up?" "Wait, you want me to *get out*? That's the craziest thing I've *ever* heard, ha ha ha." "No, seriously, I don't understand what you're asking me to do, could you repeat yourself?".... it sounds absurd, I know, but it works. They get disgusted at the "idiot gringo" and either write me a ticket (rare as hens teeth) or they just leave.

YMMV.

The problem is, how do you know what the results are? The only problems I've had in 5 years in Central America were in Nicaragua and there I was told the drivers licence needs to go to Managua and you can pick it up in two weeks!! Hardly a workable solution to a traveller who knows there are cops every few miles who are only too happy to pull you over.

Is a photocopy of the licence and a BS story about the last cop taking the licence going to work there??

I found the Nicaraguan cops to be the most corrupt of all Central America by far. They cost me 600 cordobas over four days.

 

[cruiser_guy]

In general, I carry a color photocopy of my license, passport and vehicle docs all on one page (2 sides). I don't generally offer the originals.

Any problems with the color photocopies? Did you have them notarized?

 

[80t0ylc]

Any problems with the color photocopies? Did you have them notarized?

Are you serious? Do you think that would matter to a corrupt cop or border guard? Would they even know or be able to comprehend what a notarized document is? If they're even accepting photocopies of licences, passports and other documents is evidence that, here, you make up the rules as you go - at least until the next change in power decides how things are to be done. It's intriguing to see how things are done in different parts of the world. Sandcruiser, my hat is off to you, man! You must have cast iron cajones to travel outside your country down there on pleasure cruises.

 

[sandcruiser]

I appreciate the tip of the hat, but Central America isn't really that scary. I'm no "tough guy".

One of the big differences between Central America and the USA is that, yes, here most people do recognize a notarized document. For whatever reason, the legal system is predicated on a LOT of authenticated, hand-written paperwork vs. "official" forms. Good $ for lawyers.

As for photocopies-- it isn't so much that they accept them as being equal to the real document, but they are generally just checking to see that the doc exists. Since everyone knows that petty theft is commonplace- carrying a photocopy isn't particularly outrageous.

Certainly my approach relies on an "honest" official who is looking for a bribe. Yes. I know. Oxymoron. But my experience has been that most of the cops seeking a bribe are looking at it like this: Driver is speeding and must pay a ticket. OR doesn't have seat belt. OR is driving with some other defect. Either way, driver is going to pay. Cop gets a crap salary. He takes a lesser amount into his pocket vs. a larger amount into the municipal/state coffers and both the driver and the cop are "better off".

It is limited thinking and clearly dishonest by my standards. But it isn't the same as some horribly abusive criminal shaking down everyone with threats of bashing in your headlights if you don't comply.

I think that a big part of what complicates the situation is that north Americans have such an ingrained respect for law enforcement. Locals down here don't share that respect (and fear?), so the whole bribery thing isn't generally as scary or "wrong".

Same sport, different playbook.

And the changes in power to which you refer have surprisingly little effect on John Q Public. Things mozy along at the pace at which they have moved for a long time. Unless you get some sadistic US-sponsored regime that starts offing people. That's a whole-nother ball of wax.

Are you serious? Do you think that would matter to a corrupt cop or border guard? Would they even know or be able to comprehend what a notarized document is? If they're even accepting photocopies of licences, passports and other documents is evidence that, here, you make up the rules as you go - at least until the next change in power decides how things are to be done. It's intriguing to see how things are done in different parts of the world. Sandcruiser, my hat is off to you, man! You must have cast iron cajones to travel outside your country down there on pleasure cruises.

 

[sandcruiser]

edit: my photocopies aren't notarized, but that is a pretty good idea.
I've been here long enough now that I've got expired docs (driver's license and ID card) that I leave in the car all the time. so that, if pulled over, I can show the actual expired license AND a photocopy of the current one.

That's especially handy as I don't like to take my wallet when I go surf, but do drive... so this way I can show enough paperwork that a copy is liable to believe that I'm not driving illegally.

Also, I simply don't break traffic laws. I drive slow. I use blinkers when passing. I wear my seatbelt. Cuts down *a lot* on what the cops can use to hassle me.

Contrary to popular belief, getting pulled over here isn't usually any problem at all, just a cursory document check. The tourists who are zooming around at 80mph instead of 80kph aren't in a particularly good position when it comes to "hey, why did you stop me?"

 

[80t0ylc]

...........One of the big differences between Central America and the USA is that, yes, here most people do recognize a notarized document. For whatever reason, the legal system is predicated on a LOT of authenticated, hand-written paperwork vs. "official" forms. Good $ for lawyers......

...........I think that a big part of what complicates the situation is that north Americans have such an ingrained respect for law enforcement. Locals down here don't share that respect (and fear?), so the whole bribery thing isn't generally as scary or "wrong".

Same sport, different playbook......

IMHO, these two statements contradict each other. Because it looks like you're saying "we like the law when it helps or protects us, but we don't have much respect for it when it's inconvenient or tough to comply." Here in the U.S., we've have our share of corruption, no doubt about it! But, I hope we've learned that - in a democracy that works successfully, generally people in a position of responsibility, that abuse that by being open to bribery, do more damage than the violators.

Human nature is the same everywhere no matter what form of government they live under. New York, Paris, Moscow, Sydney, Saigon, Rio, - We all need guidelines. And we're constantly "testing" those guidelines. Where do we see the most problems in this area? Usually, if the guidelines are unfair or if they're inconsistently enforced.

...........Certainly my approach relies on an "honest" official who is looking for a bribe. Yes. I know. Oxymoron. But my experience has been that most of the cops seeking a bribe are looking at it like this: Driver is speeding and must pay a ticket. OR doesn't have seat belt. OR is driving with some other defect. Either way, driver is going to pay. Cop gets a **** salary. He takes a lesser amount into his pocket vs. a larger amount into the municipal/state coffers and both the driver and the cop are "better off"........

Good example. I can't see how this is healthy, though. Cop becomes judge, jury and executioner. Too much potential for violent or extreme results.

...........It is limited thinking and clearly dishonest by my standards. .......

X2

...........And the changes in power to which you refer have surprisingly little effect on John Q Public. Things mozy along at the pace at which they have moved for a long time. Unless you get some sadistic US-sponsored regime that starts offing people. That's a whole-nother ball of wax.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. But then, the (U.S.) John Q. Public prolly wouldn't know or be part of something like that.

...........As for photocopies-- it isn't so much that they accept them as being equal to the real document, but they are generally just checking to see that the doc exists. Since everyone knows that petty theft is commonplace- carrying a photocopy isn't particularly outrageous........

Photo copies are generally easier to forge/fake including notary stamp. I imagine that's why most places don't tolerate it.

 

[sandcruiser]

80: I don't disagree with your points.
I'm not defending the system down here, just trying to describe it. I think that the legal system in both my country of citizenship (USA) and that of my residence (Costa Rica) are pretty nuts. Nuts in different ways, but still nuts.

The "big issues" seem to crop up when people try to force their personal paradigm onto a legal system that operates differently.... with negative results.

For good or for bad- in most of Central America, petty bribes are commonplace. The abuses by the police tend to stay petty. It is a hassle, but not a good reason to avoid the fantastic countries south of the US border.

 

[canucksafari]

I agree with the photocopies. When I am out and about in the cities, that is all I take with me for ID. The rest is locked away in a safe. A few times police have been pretty ticked off with them. But they never have taken my offer to come back to the hotel with me to see the origonals. I wonder why? I rarely drive in LA but when i do I have never had anyone threaten to take my docs. Maybe I have just been lucky. But i am usually also with a group of 7 or more people. Maybe it is just too many witnesses to risk la mordida. City cops are the worst for the mordida but are most often content with enough for their refresco. Check points usually want to see your passport, immigration doc and vehicle docs. As Sandcuiser says, playing i don't understand you can go a long way also.