KDSS Issue

[Rambler1]

I hope all is well...
I recently purchased a 2013 Series 200 (80k miles) . After I purchased I notice the KDSS lean of 1" (front and back) to the drivers side. In order to reduce the rake I had the OEM spacers (that I found on this forum discussion.) They seem to do ok, however my dealer is having some issues getting the LC level. I was wondering if anyone could reccomend a shop in San Antonio area that they would be a good resource to resolve this issue, and anything else. I am finding as there are not a lot of LCs sold in America, Toyota service knowledge is limited. Thanks in advance for any advice or help.

 

[Mogwai]

OEM springs? The springs are probably just old and sagging and it may not be KDSS. I assume the dealer opened the KDSS valves 2.5 - 3 turns, let it sit for a while on level ground, and then closed them back up?

 

[TYLERCOBB]

I'm right there with you, just not in SA and with a 20015 model. I too found out about the spacers on this forum, purchased them and took it to my local dealership (Knoxville, TN) for install and had to take it back 4 times to try and get it leveled out right as I had 1" lower on front and back on drivers side. The service tech admitted they didn't even know about the spacers until I brought them in to have installed. After the 4th trip he admitted he had to Google the way to get it level. It's still not level and I have tried the " turn the kdss valve 3 times, drive the high side on a block of wood and let sit for 30 minutes" method and still yielded the same results. Not sure if it's just something that comes with having these spacers or not at this point.

 

[RET2]

I hope all is well...
I recently purchased a 2013 Series 200 (80k miles) . After I purchased I notice the KDSS lean of 1" (front and back) to the drivers side. In order to reduce the rake I had the OEM spacers (that I found on this forum discussion.) They seem to do ok, however my dealer is having some issues getting the LC level. I was wondering if anyone could reccomend a shop in San Antonio area that they would be a good resource to resolve this issue, and anything else. I am finding as there are not a lot of LCs sold in America, Toyota service knowledge is limited. Thanks in advance for any advice or help.

I have found that the KDSS system has a life of it's own and seems to be in a somewhat constant state of flux. Fill your gas tank and see if that helps the lean. Also was any suspension work done to your vehicle? ARB is noted for directions that can be confusing due to unequal spring size in the rear. Another possible work around is go for a "spirited" spin on a twisty road and then park it overnight and see if things have changed it at all. Good luck.

 

[TeCKis300]

Front spring spacers is confusing this discussion as it has no impact on side to side lean. Yes to what @Mogwai and @RET2 said.

If there is a systemic lean to one side, it's typical of what 4x4s do over time, which takes a set to sagging springs on one side or the other.

If it's enough to bother you, you can use trim packers (thin spring spacers) in the rear to prop up the lower side. A single 5-10mm spacer will do the trick.

 

[Rambler1]

There has not been any work done to the LC. It looks brand new in and out... I thought the the lean was just on the front passenger, so I took to the dealer thinking the shock was bad. I had the front shocks replaced (while doing the work, I had them install the OEM spacer.) They informed me that the lean was still there and that they did not know how to fix. This starts my journey of understanding KDSS and the issues around getting it to a happy medium. I now have it at a dealer who is working on resolving (2nd round), but my concern is that this is something you have to deal with in perpetuity. Seems kind of odd that it is not something that can be resolved. I am open to replacing whatever to resolve. Would an aftermarket suspension help resolve? Or would it just be a 2" lift with a lean?

 

[CharlieS]

If they replaced the front struts without loosening the kdss shutter valves, they likely introduced the lean. Been there, done that. It can be adjusted by turning the shutter valve bolts in the kdss valve (no more than 3 full turns) and potentially driving one wheel up on a short block. To the best of my knowledge isn't a normal recurring issue. A quick search of this forum will give you lots of reading material on this topic.

 

[Rambler1]

Thanks for your replys. My knowledge is coming from reading this forum. I have even been supplying information to the dealer. As this is a used LC I am not sure what the previous owner did, however it looks to be brand new and very low miles. The first round was them trying to get it to settle, also he bled the system and replaced the fluid. Stilla 1" to the DS front and back. So round 2 at the dealer. They seem conifdent they can resolve.

 

[gaijin]

...also he bled the system and replaced the fluid. They seem conifdent they can resolve.

I highly doubt they bled the KDSS system and replaced the fluid. The KDSS system is a sealed hydraulic system that is constantly under about 700psi pressure - and needs a special service tool to refill the system to the required pressure.

If I were you doing the work, I'd loosen both KDSS shutter valve screws no more than 3 turns and leave the truck on a perfectly level surface (e.g. garage floor) for 24-48 hours then tighten the screws (10ft/lbf). This should solve the lean issue.

If you are having the dealer do the work, I would suggest they loosen both KDSS shutter valve screws 3 turns, raise the vehicle on a frame lift so all four wheels are at full droop, lower the vehicle to the ground then tighten both shutter valve screws to 10ft/lbf.

HTH

 

[TLC2013]

I have been battling a similar lean, passenger side is around 3/4”-1” higher in the rear and the front passenger side is around 1/2” higher. The lean was present when I purchases it and when it was all stock (around 80,000 miles). Tried all the tricks mentioned on here and had no long term success.
Even after upgrading the suspension to the tough dog lift the lean was still there. Closest I have come to leveling it was by supporting the frame with jack stands to allow the wheels/suspension to be free hanging and then open up the KDSS bolts 3 turns. This procedure reduced the lean to about a 1/4” but then it reappeared shortly afterwards. I have learned to live with it.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have been battling a similar lean, passenger side is around 3/4”-1” higher in the rear and the front passenger side is around 1/2” higher. The lean was present when I purchase it and was all stock (around 80,000 miles). Tried all the tricks mentioned on here and had no longer term success.
Even after upgrading the suspension to the tough dog lift the lean was still there. Closest I have come to leveling it was by supporting the frame with jack stands to allow the wheels/suspension to be free hanging and then open up the KDSS bolts 3 turns. This procedure reduced the lean to about a 1/4” but then it reappeared shortly afterwards. I have learned to live with it.

Seriously, too many people have been chasing their tails on this dreaming up various reasons (looking at you KDSS). It's the nature of 4x4 rigs.

I'd offer you the easy button if you want it.

OME 5mm trim packer at the driver side rear. $20, 20 minutes, done.

 

[Mogwai]

It was posted before but there's a "within spec" variance for KDSS, IIRC it is 20mm (if someone can confirm I'll update). And once you get in your truck and start driving the system will adjust anyway. If you were so far off that the truck handled poorly I would worry, otherwise just go flex her out in 4LOW and she'll level out in some way or another

 

[Rambler1]

It was posted before but there's a "within spec" variance for KDSS, IIRC it is 20mm (if someone can confirm I'll update). And once you get in your truck and start driving the system will adjust anyway. If you were so far off that the truck handled poorly I would worry, otherwise just go flex her out in 4LOW and she'll level out in some way or another

The service manual (per my tech) says that .5" is spec.

 

[Rambler1]

I highly doubt they bled the KDSS system and replaced the fluid. The KDSS system is a sealed hydraulic system that is constantly under about 700psi pressure - and needs a special service tool to refill the system to the required pressure.

If I were you doing the work, I'd loosen both KDSS shutter valve screws no more than 3 turns and leave the truck on a perfectly level surface (e.g. garage floor) for 24-48 hours then tighten the screws (10ft/lbf). This should solve the lean issue.

If you are having the dealer do the work, I would suggest they loosen both KDSS shutter valve screws 3 turns, raise the vehicle on a frame lift so all four wheels are at full droop, lower the vehicle to the ground then tighten both shutter valve screws to 10ft/lbf.

HTH

I know all about the special tool, we had to wait on the fluid and the tool (pump) to get in. This will be the 2nd go around. I will discuss after this does not work the next step.
Rambler1

 

[Rambler1]

Seriously, too many people have been chasing their tails on this dreaming up various reasons (looking at you KDSS). It's the nature of 4x4 rigs.

I'd offer you the easy button if you want it.

OME 5mm trim packer at the driver side rear. $20, 20 minutes, done.
View attachment 2410401

I have a 25mm drop on the drives side (front to back.) Are you saying to "stack" them with 5 trim packers?

 

[bloc]

Front spring spacers is confusing this discussion as it has no impact on side to side lean.

I would agree with you except that the lean so often pops up after a lift. Maybe tangentially related, but it does seem related.

But, I do believe the problem isn’t with KDSS itself as much as neutral point of suspension bushings after suspension work


My lean is well over 1”, approaching 1.75. I’ve done the board trick, loosen shutter valves on flat ground, drive around with them loose, everything suggested here and more. The lean persists. The one thing I haven’t done is reset all the suspension bushings, because I didn’t want to impact my alignment. I have King suspension coming which will take spring sag out of the equation, and will do everything in my power to torque the suspension at ride height. We’ll see.

Also IMO the board trick is not a good long term solution. You are pre-loading the sway bars to try and correct a lean caused by some other component in the system. I don’t believe it was designed for this and view it as bad for the health of the system long term, if it even works. Which it didn’t for me.

 

[TeCKis300]

^Agreed that there's a procedural lift install issue that is related to KDSS, that requires opening the shutter valves. The discussion sometimes gets confused however and distinct issues get conflated. Unless I'm understanding the OPs issue wrong, the lean was there prior to the spacer install. Therefor no amount of KDSS futzing will fix anything if the root of the issue lies elsewhere.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have a 25mm drop on the drives side (front to back.) Are you saying to "stack" them with 5 trim packers?

There are trim packers that can be installed in the front springs. But it's not ideal nor an easy install in the 200-series.

Installing a single trim packer at the rear on the lower leaning side will not make things perfect, but should help substantially. A 10mm spacer should do.

Looks something like this installed. The spacer can go between the spring and stock isolater, or can sit between the isolator and body just fine. If you search the web, 4x4s have been dealing with this since the beginning of time.

 

[Rambler1]

^Agreed that there's a procedural lift install issue that is related to KDSS, that requires opening the shutter valves. The discussion sometimes gets confused however and distinct issues get conflated. Unless I'm understanding the OPs issue wrong, the lean was there prior to the spacer install. Therefor no amount of KDSS futzing will fix anything if the root of the issue lies elsewhere.

You are correct. The lean was there, so I took to the dealer thinking the issue was a shock. I did not measure the rear, or notice the rear lean until after all of the fiddling around witht he KDSS system. Again, I just purchased the LC, so my ignorance on the issue, plus Toyota service that has little experience with LCs has me at this point. I just got a call, they are waiting on the fluid for round 2. I am going to go up and talk to the tech to see if I can get them to open the valves and leave in a level spot for 48hrs.
If that does not work, what would be the next move? Springs? I just replaced with factory LC struts (last week.) More questions that answers.

 

[Madtiger]

You are correct. The lean was there, so I took to the dealer thinking the issue was a shock. I did not measure the rear, or notice the rear lean until after all of the fiddling around witht he KDSS system. Again, I just purchased the LC, so my ignorance on the issue, plus Toyota service that has little experience with LCs has me at this point. I just got a call, they are waiting on the fluid for round 2. I am going to go up and talk to the tech to see if I can get them to open the valves and leave in a level spot for 48hrs.
If that does not work, what would be the next move? Springs? I just replaced with factory LC struts (last week.) More questions that answers.

Maybe leave it alone? If it drives fine and lean not excessive (Toyota techs confirm factory specs), then why keep throwing money at it?