Just curious, what's your OTHER vehicle?

[Markuson]

Love it so far! Really quick, especially for the money. Solid handling and acceleration, sounds great, and nice creature comforts and luxury appointments. Really fun car to drive, and it's a looker for sure. It can be tricky to get in and out for some people, and visibility is somewhat decent. I see it as a smart move for Toyota, the "BMW" criticism is misplaced - all the things BMW contributed to it really make it what it is. It's more than worthy of the Supra badge IMO.

Two of the most iconic Toyota nameplates:
View attachment 2632143

Hmmm. If, as you say... BMW’s contrivutions “make it what it is...” wouldn’t that make it a...BMW?

I don’t doubt the “Supra” sportiness part...
Just the “Toyota Supra” part.

Very cool car.
Just wish Toyota would be Toyota, instead of relying on Subaru for the 86 and now BMW for the “Supra.”

Toyota engineering is perfectly capable. Just wish they’f use those capabilities.

 

[timjax]

Hmmm. If, as you say... BMW’s contrivutions “make it what it is...” wouldn’t that make it a...BMW?

I don’t doubt the “Supra” sportiness part...
Just the “Toyota Supra” part.

Very cool car.
Just wish Toyota would be Toyota, instead of relying on Subaru for the 86 and now BMW for the “Supra.”

Toyota engineering is perfectly capable. Just wish they’f use those capabilities.

I definitely agree in principle, but I don't think it's realistic.

Toyota hasn't developed a turbo straight-6 in over 2 decades (JZ platform). They made that financially sustainable by also putting the engine in higher volume cars such as the Lexus IS300, GS300, SC300, and overseas models like the Mark II. I feel that the turbo straight-6 in a balanced RWD platform is crucial to it being a true Supra in my eyes, and most of the 6 cylinders in the Toyota/Lexus lineups are NA V6's, and headed towards hybrid variants. BMW is arguably the best manufacturer of the turbo straight-6 in the modern era, and no slouch in building RWD cars with great handling. Developing an entirely new, low-volume, performance engine in what is likely the last generation of gas-only cars doesn't make much sense. Many millions saved right there in R&D = a lower price for the buyer. I'm not even sure the added cost in Toyota R&D would result in a better sports car overall.

Sports cars just aren't profitable, and their development typically have to be subsidized by either collaborations or shared platforms/parts. Otherwise, they're developed from the ground up and thus charge the premium for it. Hence the GT-R and NSX moved upmarket to $120k+, and most people who say they wish the Supra competed with them would never buy it. Many more people can afford the A90 Supra. To be frank, at GT-R and NSX money, I'd get a new 992 911 C4S or GT3.

If you want to look at complete Toyota (Lexus) sports car creations, look at the RC-F, GS-F, LC500, IS-F, etc. While their NA V8's sound amazing, nearly all of these models were understeering boats way behind the performance figures of their competition, while charging similar premiums.

The Supra on the other hand has a fairly robust and powerful turbo straight-6 and is priced $15-30k less than its rivals such as the Porsche Cayman S, BMW M2, and Jaguar F-Type R-Dynamic. It performs amazingly and has held up on the performance end, and drives like a pure sports car compared to the "somewhat sporty" cars Toyota has made over the last 20 years. Heck Toyota barely even has Apple CarPlay and user-friendly infotainment figured out, not to mention the luxury appointments and balanced, lightweight RWD chassis that BMW has figured out also.

I certainly wish Toyota could develop it and the 86 entirely on their own, but it's a different era of cars entirely.

 

[Markuson]

I definitely agree in principle, but I don't think it's realistic.

Toyota hasn't developed a turbo straight-6 in over 2 decades (JZ platform). They made that financially sustainable by also putting the engine in higher volume cars such as the Lexus IS300, GS300, SC300, and overseas models like the Mark II. I feel that the turbo straight-6 in a balanced RWD platform is crucial to it being a true Supra in my eyes, and most of the 6 cylinders in the Toyota/Lexus lineups are NA V6's, and headed towards hybrid variants. BMW is arguably the best manufacturer of the turbo straight-6 in the modern era, and no slouch in building RWD cars with great handling. Many millions saved right there in R&D = a lower price for the buyer. I'm not even sure the added cost in Toyota R&D would result in a better sports car overall.

Sports cars just aren't profitable, and their development typically have to be subsidized by either collaborations or shared platforms/parts. Otherwise, they're developed from the ground up and thus charge the premium for it. Hence the GT-R and NSX moved upmarket to $120k+, and most people who say they wish the Supra competed with them would never buy it. Many more people can afford the A90 Supra. To be frank, at GT-R and NSX money, I'd get a new 992 911 C4S or GT3.

If you want to look at complete Toyota (Lexus) sports car creations, look at the RC-F, GS-F, LC500, IS-F, etc. While their NA V8's sound amazing, nearly all of these models were understeering boats way behind the performance figures of their competition, while charging similar premiums.

The Supra on the other hand has a fairly robust and powerful turbo straight-6 and is priced $15-30k less than its rivals such as the Porsche Cayman S, BMW M2, and Jaguar F-Type R-Dynamic. It performs amazingly and has held up on the performance end, and drives like a pure sports car compared to the "somewhat sporty" cars Toyota has made over the last 20 years. Heck Toyota barely even has Apple CarPlay and user-friendly infotainment figured out, not to mention the luxury appointments and balanced RWD chassis that BMW has figured out also.

I certainly wish Toyota could develop it and the 86 entirely on their own, but it's a different era of cars entirely.

First... -None of this really matters in any life-important way. So enjoy the car, and know that I’d very happily drive one.

That said...
I guess my point is...
If—for whatever reason (including those reasons you detail)—a company can’t make their own legendary nameplate vehicle? -Don’t stick the legend’s name on someone else’s product. Its pretending. Great car...but a pretend name.

But why do I even care?
Probably because of possible slippery slopes...
-Will they someday re-badge a Bronco or a Jeep and call it a Toyota Land Cruiser? I would hope they wouldn’t... BUT...Toyota has now *repeatedly* shown they are willing to do such things.

Practical explanations or not...that thought makes me sigh & frown, ya know?

But anyway...
I do love you car.

 

[Crush 4]

The points you guys make about the Supra summarizes the quandary I find myself in. And yet I keeping coming back to the idea that for the money and the styling what else would you buy?

 

[04UZJ100]

200s

 

[nikramos]

 

[linuxgod]

The points you guys make about the Supra summarizes the quandary I find myself in. And yet I keeping coming back to the idea that for the money and the styling what else would you buy?

This ^

The Supra is a de-tuned Z4 but at ~$20k less. BMW offers a 4-cyl version which is a similar price to the Supra, but unless you're just itching for a cheap convertible, why? If you're cross-shopping the Supra against the 4cyl Z4, unless you're dying for the BMW nameplate or want a convertible the Supra is the clear winner IMO. Conversely if you're cross-shopping the Supra against the BMW I6 version, the Supra is still the clear winner for cost/performance given the cost and virtually identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times

2020 BMW Z4 M40i vs. 2020 Toyota Supra: Brothers From Other Mothers

How closely related are the Toyota Supra and BMW Z4? The cars share a platform and powertrain and are built by Magna Steyr in the same plant in Austria!

www.motortrend.com

Honestly there aren't a lot of new sports cars out there under $60k. What else competes at that price? Maybe a C8 'Vette?

 

[LXstalker]

2005 Land Cruiser
2019 Audi Q7

 

[Angelo1]

This ^

The Supra is a de-tuned Z4 but at ~$20k less. BMW offers a 4-cyl version which is a similar price to the Supra, but unless you're just itching for a cheap convertible, why? If you're cross-shopping the Supra against the 4cyl Z4, unless you're dying for the BMW nameplate or want a convertible the Supra is the clear winner IMO. Conversely if you're cross-shopping the Supra against the BMW I6 version, the Supra is still the clear winner for cost/performance given the cost and virtually identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times

2020 BMW Z4 M40i vs. 2020 Toyota Supra: Brothers From Other Mothers

How closely related are the Toyota Supra and BMW Z4? The cars share a platform and powertrain and are built by Magna Steyr in the same plant in Austria!

www.motortrend.com

Honestly there aren't a lot of new sports cars out there under $60k. What else competes at that price? Maybe a C8 'Vette?

This ^

The Supra is a de-tuned Z4 but at ~$20k less. BMW offers a 4-cyl version which is a similar price to the Supra, but unless you're just itching for a cheap convertible, why? If you're cross-shopping the Supra against the 4cyl Z4, unless you're dying for the BMW nameplate or want a convertible the Supra is the clear winner IMO. Conversely if you're cross-shopping the Supra against the BMW I6 version, the Supra is still the clear winner for cost/performance given the cost and virtually identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times

2020 BMW Z4 M40i vs. 2020 Toyota Supra: Brothers From Other Mothers

How closely related are the Toyota Supra and BMW Z4? The cars share a platform and powertrain and are built by Magna Steyr in the same plant in Austria!

www.motortrend.com

Honestly there aren't a lot of new sports cars out there under $60k. What else competes at that price? Maybe a C8 'Vette?

To answer your question...a Tesla model 3 performance at 3.1sec. 0-60 for $55k. No brainer in my book for a speedster under $60k.

 

[cheapskate31]

 

[linuxgod]

@Angelo1 there are definitely vehicles with higher performance than the Supra for the $. When I think about what competes with it I'm thinking in the "sports car" space.

 

[Angelo1]

@Angelo1 there are definitely vehicles with higher performance than the Supra for the $. When I think about what competes with it I'm thinking in the "sports car" space.

@Angelo1 there are definitely vehicles with higher performance than the Supra for the $. When I think about what competes with it I'm thinking in the "sports car" space.

Throw some stickers and a spoiler on it and it’s a sports car. Tesla Model 3 Pikes Peak Crash Pics Are Crazy Intense - https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/441047/tesla-model-3-pikes-peak-crash/amp/

 

[Gappy]

1999 Lexus LS400.
The original Lexus flagship.

 

[Markuson]

1999 Lexus LS400.
The original Lexus flagship.

View attachment 2632730

I remember ridi g in a 1990 LS400 when they first came out...and what I remember most vividly ...besides the oozing overall quality...was the instrument cluster. It wss just incredibly clear, bright, and a feast for the eyes at the time. Loomed almost 3D or something. At the time, that was new.

 

[gentimmy]

The new stablemate to my 200 - 2021 GR Supra 3.0 Premium:
View attachment 2631869

Nice Z4

 

[slowride]

The Supra (BMW) is a bargain for a BMW...

It appears Toyoda has many future plans for additional bolt-on mods and it is a strong foundation for a fun car. A lot of new car for under $60K no doubt.

I think they did a dis-service to the Supra name plate by calling the new car a Supra...

If Toyoda had only come up with a new name for a new sports car there would be a lot fewer hurt feelings and insults.

This is the same basic mistake and expectations Honda made with the new NSX...

Honda should have come up with a new call sign name plate for the car.

The NSX name plate fans expectations would not have been so let down by the new cars design or price.

If you are going to buy a new Supra- watch youtube videos on the wind buffeting with the windows down and an easy mod the can be added to the rearview mirrors to solve it.

Peace.

 

[slowride]

View attachment 2631943

My 100 is perfect off road and in inclement conditions, but my other V8 SUV has a manual transmission!

On the Dragon ???

with Killboy ???

 

[spazzyfry123]

1999 Lexus LS400.
The original Lexus flagship.

View attachment 2632730

Whenever I see one, all I can think of is...

EDIT: NSFW (language) for anyone that isn't familiar with the show...

 

[sparkyblue]

2010 BMW 135i
2011 BMW M3
2007 BMW 335xi (SOLD)
and most recently the 2010 LX570

10 years modding BMW's and it's finally time to join my buddies who have always been into wheelin'
+ I quickly realized I needed a larger vehicle to shuttle friends + family + our pups to the Sierra's

 

[SemperCruiser]

Picked up a 6MT Taco - pretty fun little truck I must say