Just bought a 2000 LC - big problems

[ramangain]

Hi, I’m a 100 LC owner, and a used car dealer.
I sold my first used car in 2007, and since I’ve been in love with the business.
I worked at 5-6 different dealerships since then, and each is very very different, from the scum to the really scummy. The reason I’m opening up here is bc I’m a 100 owner, car lover and I understand your frustration 100%.
Every state has it’s own rules and laws about used car purchasing, I’m speaking about FL, since I’m in Miami and I know FL sales only, not familiar with any other. But I’m pretty sure all are very similar.
There’s no cooling off period on used car sales.
All used car sales are final. All used cars are sold as is.
So.. what do you do if you buy a POS?
Used car dealerships are one of the few industries that are still human. You’re still dealing with people, and some of us still have a say on the sale transaction.
So YOUR attitude has a lot to do with the type of reaction you’ll get from that dealership.
They know exactly how bad or good the car is. They know they’re selling a garbage rust bucket car to an out of state person that signed on the dotted line. They know that you can’t do s#*€ about it, cause it’s a used car sold as is(again, other states might have other rules).
So, what do you do?
Well, that’s where you have to put on your kind mask.
If you go to a dealer that sold you the car in an attitude that they don’t really care for, they can tell you to go F off.
You can throw that into civil small cases, you will spend a bunch of money on lawyers, and the lawyer will be really happy, but you won’t get anything.
Since we’re in an internet/ search/ review era, they’ll care more about your bad reviews, than the lawyer’s claims.
But if you go in with an attitude of “ I’ll sue you, issue a bbb claim, write a bad review in every site” way, what you’ll get is a ... nothing.
Based on my experience. You should try and “touch” the person’s soft side.
It’s still a business that is run by people.
Just try talking to them, explain that it was your dream car, that you don’t want to harm them, but to get into some type of agreement with them. That your wife and family were waiting for the chance to finally have this...... whatever man, whatever you have to say or cry about.. we at the car dealerships are also humans, sadly not every car we sell is great... but we’ll try to make it better if you just ask nicely.
I do know exactly the reputation we have. It isn’t good, but that’s bc you’re buying used items. Did you ever complained about a used lawnmower bought at a pawnshop? Or a used tv you bought at a yard sale?

Let's dissect this a bit. (My opening line was removed since it was much more pessimistic and harsh)

This car dealer knows exactly the shape of the car they sold the OP. They need to know the risk assessment before they price and agree to sell to avoid liability. This is common business practice. Without any disclosure of what lurked underneath the skin, which would be obvious once the truck was loaded on a flatbed, this car dealer just took the money and split. The baseline for the practices of this car dealership have been set.

The recommendation to try and deal with the "soft side" of this car dealership to try and get some compensation flies in the face of logic and wisdom. The baseline of their sales and disclosure practices have clearly been set. They have the customer's money. Why would the car dealership provide any relief ... to earn brownie points and avoid negative feedback online or otherwise? Their initial business practices are all that is needed to know.

This procurement exercise can be a lesson for many folks.

If folks are even remotely paying attention at this point, PLEASE PLEASE always get a PPI done before any remote transaction. If the transaction is local and you are not well studied on the vehicle of interest to you, pay for a PPI as well. Case in point: I am about to close a deal selling a 2008 BMW M5 6mt (the one with the V10 motor). Notoriously finicky, expensive to maintain, but quite the unicorn. I convinced a buyer in MI to get a PPI done and the car was exactly as I advertised, warts and all. Due to the PPI, the buyer was willing to pay more than his original offer since he had made assumptions about known issues being unattended to and baked it in his budget. The buyer is now much more flexible in terms of sending a deposit for me to hold the car until the coronavirus stuff passes and travel is more appropriate. I'm not a car dealer or independent flipper myself, but I know my name won't be dragged through the "mud" (hehe, had to) in that M5 community based on this transaction.

 

[saudi]

This is good advice and I appreciate it. I have not been hostile at all. I have been very nice when speaking with both the salesman and the general manager. I have not gone full sob story yet, so that may be an option. I haven't threatened them whatsoever.

The term our prosecutors would use here in uk is not fit for purpose and it would appear your vehicle wasn’t

 

[97 AZ LC]

Assuming I can get no help from the dealership, I am thinking I will probably just try to learn to do some things on my own.

Now you're talking. On many jobs you can substitute enthusiasm for expertise. But don't overdo it, just get it going and get rid of it pretty quickly. Money spent to get a car running to sell is usually a good investment. Money spent to fix up a rust bucket is not. It's a slippery slope.

 

[Swampdawg1]

The term our prosecutors would use here in uk is not fit for purpose and it would appear your vehicle wasn’t

Agree, but laws here are pretty variable by state and Mississippi laws are not really in favor of the consumer in this situation.

 

[Swampdawg1]

Now you're talking. On many jobs you can substitute enthusiasm for expertise. But don't overdo it, just get it going and get rid of it pretty quickly. Money spent to get a car running to sell is usually a good investment. Money spent to fix up a rust bucket is not. It's a slippery slope.

Yeah, I will start with the brake lines and parking brake. If I can get those repaired myself, I will then consider how to approach the broken shock.

 

[Flipped Bezel]

I'd still post up the dealer's name if I was in your position for the sake of others who just like you may fall victim to their unscrupulous business practices....

The rust looks pretty bad to me considering that we are fortunate to avoid this problem in the south. My advice is learn, repair (just enough to get roadworthy), drive it and enjoy for a while to retain some sense of value to this transaction....then sell it and go after the keeper that you were searching for while using your newly gained knowledge and the support of this great community to seek and find the right Cruiser.

Good luck and keep the forum posted on your plans and progress...you will find much sage advice here.

 

[saudi]

Yeah, I will start with the brake lines and parking brake. If I can get those repaired myself, I will then consider how to approach the broken shock.

I suppose we are lucky here the law is the law and it’s crown law ( the queen) so everyone has to follow, no one can be above the crown

 

[J1000]

I suppose we are lucky here the law is the law and it’s crown law ( the queen) so everyone has to follow, no one can be above the crown

And also the cost of ownership of a 100 series Land Cruiser is unreachable to most whereas here in the USA it is quite affordable.

 

[saudi]

And also the cost of ownership of a 100 series Land Cruiser is unreachable to most whereas here in the USA it is quite affordable.

Certainly with fuel as most here in uk are diesel mine is petrol but runs on gas ( lpg) which is cheap here .73cents litre

 

[J1000]

Certainly with fuel as most here in uk are diesel mine is petrol but runs on gas ( lpg) which is cheap here .73cents litre

And MOT expenses, insurance, etc etc. Sure, your inspection program keeps vehicles like this off the road, but vehicles like this prove that vehicles can go a long long time being very neglected far past what any government would allow. There are trade offs. For something like a sub-$10k car sold as-is, buyer beware.

 

[saudi]

And MOT expenses, insurance, etc etc. Sure, your inspection program keeps vehicles like this off the road, but vehicles like this prove that vehicles can go a long long time being very neglected far past what any government would allow. There are trade offs. For something like a sub-$10k car sold as-is, buyer beware.

I agree but I bought a 2003 facelift model here ( I believe 2004 model USA ) and paid £7000
Insurance is fully comprehensive and protected no claims bonus £400
I don’t know how it compares

 

[habakkuk007]

I haven't threatened them whatsoever.

Don't threaten - negotiate, and then act based on the circumstances. Empty threats are just that.

I suppose we are lucky here the law is the law and it’s crown law ( the queen) so everyone has to follow, no one can be above the crown

Common law actions apply here in the US as well unless they are explicitly preempted by applicable statutory scheme - I had listed the causes of action available in ANY state where consumer protection law is lacking.

 

[saudi]

Don't threaten - negotiate, and then act based on the circumstances. Empty threats are just that.



Common law actions apply here in the US as well unless they are explicitly preempted by applicable statutory scheme - I had listed the causes of action available in ANY state where consumer protection law is lacking.

Let’s hope there a happy ending otherwise just shame them

 

[e9999]

The seller was either negligent or dishonest.
The buyer did not do due diligence.
These are weird times.
You're fortunate if you only have to deal with this and not with sick family members or friends, or find yourself without financial means.
Pick your battles.
If it's important to you, seek redress.
If not so important, live and learn.
Time is a precious commodity.
Best wishes for a good and prompt resolution!

 

[MJK]

You are going to pay for this lesson one way or another.

I vote to dump it, and spend what you need to trade up to a decent rust-free example. I'd start with a good faith call to who sold you this and ask 'what is it going to take to undo this deal'. Even if I lost a couple grand, I'd do it.

Also, yes - start DIYing. It is fun, cheaper, done right, educational and very rewarding. ...unless what you are wrenching on is rusty - then it is just a PITA. Could be just me.

 

[Pucker5]

So, since you already bought it. it doesn’t look crazy bad. When I bought my 2004 (and yes I got conned into buying a rustier one out of state) it floated like an old caddy. The shocks were done but I knew I would be putting new ones on it anyways so I didn’t feel that bad about not having to resell/waste some unknown age shocks. Get some new factory ones or some bilsteins and call it a day. For your brake lines...I had some go bad so I replaced them all. Have new rotors and pads and fluid done at the same time all around. Getting the drum brake (ebrake) isn’t a ton of dough for parts (around $200). The mechanic who’s saying your master cylinder maybe be due is being super presumptive and may be scaring you. my mechanic is a family friend and while he did give me a deal he reported that the master cylinder worked perfect.

I would Have your Ac lines inspected, coolant lines all checked out(heater t replacement too), fluid baselined and possibly a kit like below but for your specific year. I got this kit Installed for like $600
I think

NEW TOYOTA/LEXUS FACTORY OEM 19 PCS TIMING BELT KIT W/ GENUINE TOYOTA WATER PUMP | eBay

COMPLETE OEM FACTORY NEW TIMING BELT KIT WITH ORIGINAL TOYOTA WATER PUMP. LEXUS GS430. LEXUS GS400. LEXUS LS400. LEXUS LS430. LEXUS SC400. LEXUS SC430. LEXUS LX470.

www.ebay.com

have the mechanic check your gas tank for holes and lines for leaks. That rusty tank protector looks s***ty but hopefully it has protected your tank. you can get a tank cover assembly pretty inexpensive as well as a used less rusty space tire assembly.

If it isn’t a show car and a mechanic thinks the engine, transmission, and frame structural integrity look good, just look at it as the cost to take it another 100k. You won’t get a cooler car for the additional $3k invested plus the loss you would take if you sold it. Take it to an old school mechanic who isn’t a little bitch about rusty bolts. pb blaster, heat, patience, new bolts, and some fluid film are good things.

 

[midniteRNR]

I have a rusty 100 series, so here's my 2 cents. To start off, I hope you didn't spend 100 series money to buy this truck. The general condition looks like it has been neglected by its previous owners. I would maybe worry more about the running gear than just the rust. Your truck can either be an endless money pit or an opportunity to learn how to wrench on your own vehicle; cars in general are not the most cost effective hobbies, so education and fun will be different sides of the same coin. Rust will make everything worse, mechanic-wise, but if you can figure out working on this thing, you will be a superhero on maintaining/fixing anything else.

If you plan to spend a bunch of money building a hardcore off-roading vehicle, you'd be ahead buying a different one from AZ or TX and starting over; investing in mods for a rusty truck is not a good idea. If you are going to drive it around fairly stock and just DD, fix the brake lines/shocks and go from there. You're in the South, so the truck will not rust in half tomorrow, although it will eventually happen in time. There are many other things that can fell your vehicle before the rust will, and those need to be verified.

 

[Patron100LC]

If you’re still want to try and get something from the dealership..
Or for future reference.
The size of the dealership has a lot to do with the help or lack of you’ll get, the more people are between the customer and the money , the more difficult it is to get some back.
On a huge dealership, 400-500 cars, 15-20 sales ppl, 3-4 closers, sales managers, floor managers, finance director, finance mngrs.. the lot, the harder it is, the farther away you are from the decision maker.
Small dealer, less than 100 cars, 4-5 sales, maybe a finance guy and a gm, probably the owner is around( it’s the guy with $5 thrift stores clothing and very flashy car), the more chances you’ll get to the big kahuna.

You should call or show up in the afternoon, never in the morning. Mornings are for auctions, early afternoon is for lunch, meetings and auction receipts, around 3pm they walk around, till 5.30 maybe 6. After that they’re drunk. (It’s a very stressful job).
So if you want to complain about anything in a dealership, it’s 3-5. That’s when you have a chance to get the main guy.

Regarding PPI( pre purchase inspection). Make sure you speak with the inspector before he goes in.
You’ll book it with a customer service person, but get the actual inspection guy phone number. Make sure that you speak with him regarding what you’ looking for.
They’re not gonna crawl under the car to look for rust unless you specify that that’s what you’re looking for, you might have to pay additional for that. I’ve been dealing with them a lot recently, and most of the info they provided to customers is about overspray panels and dings, they won’t go the extra step unless you ask, or pay for it, for that matter.

If you decided to just keep the truck, accept reality and restore it, then enjoy the work, don’t trust mechanics, trust the Forum. They are way more knowledgeable than ANY mechanic (even the ones that built the thing).
Good luck.

 

[Jerzywerzy5]

If you’re still want to try and get something from the dealership..
Or for future reference.
The size of the dealership has a lot to do with the help or lack of you’ll get, the more people are between the customer and the money , the more difficult it is to get some back.
On a huge dealership, 400-500 cars, 15-20 sales ppl, 3-4 closers, sales managers, floor managers, finance director, finance mngrs.. the lot, the harder it is, the farther away you are from the decision maker.
Small dealer, less than 100 cars, 4-5 sales, maybe a finance guy and a gm, probably the owner is around( it’s the guy with $5 thrift stores clothing and very flashy car), the more chances you’ll get to the big kahuna.

You should call or show up in the afternoon, never in the morning. Mornings are for auctions, early afternoon is for lunch, meetings and auction receipts, around 3pm they walk around, till 5.30 maybe 6. After that they’re drunk. (It’s a very stressful job).
So if you want to complain about anything in a dealership, it’s 3-5. That’s when you have a chance to get the main guy.

Regarding PPI( pre purchase inspection). Make sure you speak with the inspector before he goes in.
You’ll book it with a customer service person, but get the actual inspection guy phone number. Make sure that you speak with him regarding what you’ looking for.
They’re not gonna crawl under the car to look for rust unless you specify that that’s what you’re looking for, you might have to pay additional for that. I’ve been dealing with them a lot recently, and most of the info they provided to customers is about overspray panels and dings, they won’t go the extra step unless you ask, or pay for it, for that matter.

If you decided to just keep the truck, accept reality and restore it, then enjoy the work, don’t trust mechanics, trust the Forum. They are way more knowledgeable than ANY mechanic (even the ones that built the thing).
Good luck.

Florida is a very strange place

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Let's keep it to tech, if you want to talk used car sales or consumer law, take it chat please.