its not stopping like it should...

[1TallTXn]

my dad's FJ60 isn't stopping like we'd like it to

we've done a SOA conversion.
cummins B6T with the dodge 5spd.
35" tires.

What do you folks recommend to make this thing stop better?

SS brake lines?
new rotors?
new calipers?

so far the brake system is totally stock.

thanks for your input.

 

[GulfShoresFJ60]

The biggest difference will be the 4Runner caliper conversion with a bigger master cylinder. Usually people use the non-ABS FJ80 master cylinder.

Here is a link to a FJ80 master cylinder: http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/brakes/mcylinder.htm
Here is a link to some 4Runner Calipers: http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/brakes/calipers.htm

These would be the two big things that will be most noticeable that is if the soft lines are still good quality.

 

[sandcruiser]

GM Hydroboost. Search for Peter Straub and Brakes... lots of info there.
You can grab it off of GM trucks/vans at a wrecker.

Bigger calipers off of a 4runner are going to help too
You might also consider a rear disc brake job, but if the drums are correctly adjusted they work pretty well.

Oh, check your wheel cylinders too. They wear out.

 

[agent orange]

The fourrunner brakes are real nice, and bolt right up.

The hydroboost sounds like the hot ticket, but if you dont go that route dont go any bigger than a 80 series 1 inch MC, the T-100 is 1 1/16 and is too big. Fourrunner brakes with hydroboost would be more than adequate.

Im not a big fan of the drum rears, so a disc brake conversion seems like a good idea to me. I dont know about you, but i cant keep mine adjusted the way i like them. People seem to have issues getting an ebrake to work out well with the RDB without some serious effort though.

Id love to see some pics of the truck in question, it sounds like a sweet ride. Tell us what you work out.

 

[1TallTXn]

What year of 4Runner calipers are we talking here?

The e-brake and rears seem to be working fine. its the overall stopping that we are looking to upgrade.

pics and the build-up are here: She's Cummin Along Nicely

she's gotten a little uglier since then as the sanding has begun for a proper paint job.

Working on installing a Land Rover Discovery rear set as well.

 

[agent orange]

Look in the FAQ of this board for a write up on the 4runner stuff. Its a little longwinded (my posts always end up that way) but it should cover everything.

Just dont use the T-100 MC!

 

[meluhha]

Look in the FAQ of this board for a write up on the 4runner stuff. Its a little longwinded (my posts always end up that way) but it should cover everything.

Just dont use the T-100 MC!

I've been using the T-100 MC for two years...nothing wrong as far as I can tell.

Just my .02.

 

[agent orange]

I've been using the T-100 MC for two years...nothing wrong as far as I can tell.

Just my .02.

The reason i say dont use the T-100 MC is that ive been working on my brakes for a year now and still cant lock them up on flat dry ground. Everything is new, everything is bled, the only thing i can think of is that the MC is too big to build enough pressure at the wheels to lock the brakes up. The bigger MC moves more volume at a lower pressure, and i dont think you need that much volume for just a 4runner brake swap.

 

[Poser]

When was the last time you adjusted the rear brakes?



Are the rear brakes even functioning?



If the rear brakes are not doing there share, there is NOTHING that you will do to the fronts to make up for it.



Long pedal travel and poor stopping power is indicative of a improperly adjusted rear brake system. Another problem that this creates is over-working the fronts, and possibly warping the rotors. I have replaced a few sets of rotors on wagons because of this.

 

[agent orange]

I hate the drum rears. I adjust them, the brakes are great for a while, then they lose their adjustment and im back at square one. Even when they are perfect, i feel like the pedal should be firmer and the only thing i can think of is the MC is too big. I can still bottom out the pedal, even with the drums freshly adjusted. I dont rememeber being able to do that with the stock MC. Part of my issue is one of the tensioner springs that keeps the drums from backing off is missing on one side, but even when the rears are in adjustment i feel the brakes are still lacking. I guess i just need to work harder at getting my drums working.....

 

[GLTHFJ60]

How is that rig running? Is it on the road yet?

Didn't you want to have it on the road last year by thanksgiving?

 

[1TallTXn]

How is that rig running? Is it on the road yet?

Didn't you want to have it on the road last year by thanksgiving?

running good. its been on the road since a little before christmas.

blew the front shocks so replaced those with Rancho and it rides much better!!

dad's installing a 3rd seat and starting to work on getting it ready for paint. thats a little challenging since is his DD.

 

[1TallTXn]

So, nearly 2yrs later, we are going to get around to upgrading the brakes.

Any extra comments before we whip out the cash?

 

[ntsqd]

Basically two options; increase the clamping force or increase the rotor diameter.

The 4rnnr calipers apparently use larger pistons, so that increases clamping force at the minor cost of more pedal travel.
Hydraboost pushes harder for the same pedal effort, that increases line pressure which increases clamping force.
SS hoses offer less diametral growth under pressure, so they increase pedal feel, but don't change line pressure though they may slightly shorten the pedal travel.

Going to a larger OD rotor means buying or building adapter brackets and going to a larger wheel size.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I did a quick read over and I haven't seen what I consider the first obvious fix / check....

When you did your SOA did you raise your LSPV (Load Sensing Proportional Valve?) It's located on the rear axle and it tells the rear drums when to brake and how much. If the LSPV is not raised up to match your lift then you will have no rear braking which would cause you to look into all the other options listed above.

-Randy

 

[Poser]

So, nearly 2yrs later, we are going to get around to upgrading the brakes.

Any extra comments before we whip out the cash?

See post #9.

 

[1TallTXn]

I did a quick read over and I haven't seen what I consider the first obvious fix / check....

When you did your SOA did you raise your LSPV (Load Sensing Proportional Valve?) It's located on the rear axle and it tells the rear drums when to brake and how much. If the LSPV is not raised up to match your lift then you will have no rear braking which would cause you to look into all the other options listed above.

-Randy

Wasn't aware that the 60's had those. I'm sure the rears are working, so I think thats probably not the issue.

See post #9.

Rear brakes are properly adjusted and working.

We have a MC and calipers on order. Hopefully that'll help

Thanks for the tips!

 

[sixty]

When I still had stock axles, the biggest leap in braking performance came from Monte carlo calipers on the rear axle. When I went to Eldo calipers I lost alot of the gain. 4runner calipers also made a fairly big difference. Even after all of that it still wasn't great.

Now that I have 02' F350 axles and the matching booster/ master I finally have what I consider adequate brakes.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Wasn't aware that the 60's had those. I'm sure the rears are working, so I think thats probably not the issue.


Rear brakes are properly adjusted and working.

We have a MC and calipers on order. Hopefully that'll help

Thanks for the tips!

I forgot that yours was a 60 and not a 62. I am not sure if the 60's have an LSPV. That's probably why no one said anything about it.

 

[Downey]

Here's my two cents:
(a) After rear disc brake swaps, pratically everyone with 3/4" to 1" piston master cylinders complained of soft pedal (including me). Several converted to the 1998-newer 100 Series master cylinder with 1 1/16" piston, then soft pedal vanished instantly. Problem is some suppliers have sold 1" piston cylinders as "big bore", and/or sold 1" T-100 instead of 1 1/16" T-100's.
(b) until recently, remanufactured El Dorado calipers could have had questionable ratchets in them. The rebuilders would not replace the ratchets (too expensive), so even remans had worn ratchets, which resulted in uneven braking, or uneven park brake locking from side to side. We now get NEW El Dorado calipers (not pimping product, just explaining) from China (where everything else on the planet comes from) that have brand new ratchets in them. These should eliminate El Dorado dissatisfaction issues.