Isuzu 4BD1-T swap into a '92

[69rambler]

A couple things are being left out here.

I did verify fitup with A440 parts I was supplied by All Automatic,one of the largest suppliers of auto hard parts in the world. There was a possibility, and now appears a reality, that the parts were not as represented.

I called John and spoke with him as soon as I was aware the could be a problem with a kit not working properly in an A440 80. This was long before he ever started installing the Isuzu, maybe two months ago. We spoke in detail about exactly this potential scenario and I asked him to please pay extra special attention to the converter fitup to make sure everything was correct and to communicate with me when he got to that point. We've been in communication throughout his project and all was well until this point.

The issue is that the other person who has installed this kit explained they may have installed an A343 converter and had no way to verify and given all the details of what happen the A343 converter sounded like the cause, but has not yet been verified. The details of what was going on with this conversion aren't clear to me. I didn't sell that kit, but have gone to great lengths to support the kit and the customer, but have not had follow up.

I called John to discuss any potential issues right away. At that time I didn't think there was an issue, but I called anyway and wanted to make sure he knew what I knew and that I am here to fix this, not pass it off.

I have been and will continue to do whatever I can to help, to make sure this issue is resolved.

I have offered to send whatever A442 parts would be necessary to make the kit work. John has explained to me he has a complete A442.

 

[jtaylor]

Pump

Hey Dustin, check your email. I don't have a complete a442, just a pump. I want to figure this out, for me and for those that want to do the same. Yes, you did communicate all of that to me, but I thought the other guy messed something up and you couldn't verify if that was the case. I have complete confidence in you and your abilities. Is there a modification that can be done to make this work without swapping trans?

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Sounds like there was an issue with those parts for prototyping indeed.

If this is in fact just an issue with pump engagement then could you not stamp a different flex plate with the added engagement needed? It seems like a cheap solution to get people that want to keep the A440 in there trucks.

To determine the the added depth needed you could easily unbolt the converter from the flex plate and see how much further it will push into the pump. If its not contacting the pump teeth at all then you know right there its already at least 18 ish mm. The issue will be if the converter snout or an internal part of the converter is physically different.

I know the kit requires a A442 bell but is there a way that the A440 converter can be used in it? Is there a difference in size? I seem to recall reading at some point that A440 converter was overall longer. Maybe that's all you need just put the A440 converter in? Not trying to be critical at all, just trying to offer up some solutions or at least ideas.

 

[69rambler]

Sounds like there was an issue with those parts for prototyping indeed.

If this is in fact just an issue with pump engagement then could you not stamp a different flex plate with the added engagement needed? It seems like a cheap solution to get people that want to keep the A440 in there trucks.

To determine the the added depth needed you could easily unbolt the converter from the flex plate and see how much further it will push into the pump. If its not contacting the pump teeth at all then you know right there its already at least 18 ish mm. The issue will be if the converter snout or an internal part of the converter is physically different.

I know the kit requires a A442 bell but is there a way that the A440 converter can be used in it? Is there a difference in size? I seem to recall reading at some point that A440 converter was overall longer. Maybe that's all you need just put the A440 converter in? Not trying to be critical at all, just trying to offer up some solutions or at least ideas.

The A440 converter is very different from the A442. It's smaller diameter and uses a smaller bolt circle.

The converter pilot doesn't have a lengthy engagement. How far it could go back is an unknown right now. Lets say it could go back .250" before falling out of the pilot bore in the flywheel. You would then have a maximum of .250" engagement with the pump, more likely much less. I don't think it's a good idea.

At this point a problem with the A440 pump depth and our kit is known and I will start working on a solution.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to figure out exactly why the A442 pump and shafts won't fit the A440. If it can be done the pump swap seems like a good solution.

 

[Alleycats]

Well I don't think this guy would have embarked on his engine swap if he had known about this so called "known issue" with the pump fitment! WTF

 

[jtaylor]

Update

Dustin is taking apart the different trans to see what he can do to make this work. In the mean time, I'll start planning for my next project

Hopefully I'll know something soon, keep ya posted!

 

[cruiserbrett]

So,
Just caught up on this. Sorry to hear the crappy news. Went out to measure the A440 and A442 trans I had as reasonably accurately as I could.

Here is a pic of the A440 trans, followed by the A442, and finally a crude drawing of basic differences in the trans dimensions.

As you look at my crayon drawing, some obvious liberties were taken to clearly show the pump gear max depth to tip of input shaft dimensions, as on the a442 pump its nearly flush with the trans face, where on the A440 its more recessed into the case depth wise. Rather than really confuse the area where the gear is truly located, I dropped it down in the drawing so I could more easily give you an idea of where I was measuring to.

Unfortunately, the A440 is a bit(10.XXmm) deeper and this might be why the shorter A442 TC isn't reaching the two "tangs" on the pump gear.

Hope this makes sense, and helps out.

 

[jtaylor]

Thanks for that diagram, I am hoping Dustin can figure out a solution.

 

[mjosoba]

If a fix for the A440 isn't found, what other options are there for the A442? Compushift is about a grand I think. Switch valve bodies maybe?

 

[Wheelingnoob]

If a fix for the A440 isn't found, what other options are there for the A442? Compushift is about a grand I think. Switch valve bodies maybe?

If a442 is used there are other issues, would need to swap the earlier T-case on in (viscus on the A442). A compushift as well as the later shifter that is PRND2L. Im sure there is a lot of little things like the shifter dash display again PRND2L and so on.

Cant use a different VB they need a computer for shifting properly.

 

[jtaylor]

Solution

Dustin had the idea of modifying the converter by welding on a longer "snout" so that the pump will be engaged. Working out the details now, if it is even possible to do.

 

[jtaylor]

So it looks like putting a longer snout on the a442 converter is possible. Dustin is getting one done for me, and getting the stall speed lowered to the 1700-1800 range. I should have it in a couple weeks, in the mean time I will pull the engine and get ready to do this again.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

So it looks like putting a longer snout on the a442 converter is possible. Dustin is getting one done for me, and getting the stall speed lowered to the 1700-1800 range. I should have it in a couple weeks, in the mean time I will pull the engine and get ready to do this again.

As I said in my PM I really hope this works out man my fingers are crossed for you.

 

[wrongway around]

Nice work ,hope it works out. When I got my converter lowered ,I personally don't like the way the egt's are hard to keep down under load at stall speed . But the motor definitely has the power to pull in lockup .

 

[69rambler]

If the converter doesn't load the engine at idle it's not too low and should work fine. If the engine RPM drops significantly when you go from neutral into a gear then the converter stall speed is probably too low.

If you don't see those symptoms I would look elsewhere like timing, injectors, head gasket, boost leaks, turbo.

Recently found a 4BT head that was improperly machined allowing too much injector protrusion. The engine was down on power across the board, acted like it had a converter or timing issue, but it was injectors sticking out .100" too far.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Nice work ,hope it works out. When I got my converter lowered ,I personally don't like the way the egt's are hard to keep down under load at stall speed . But the motor definitely has the power to pull in lockup .

The 4BD has a much lower peak torque than a 1HD so that may play into it a bit as well as turbo size and pump tuning. The Lower stall for your engine maybe loading it lower than the engine can build boost to use up the fuel its dumping in.

I'm interested to see how lower stall works on mine and the OP's 4BD's. We both have identical turbo's and for the most part the rest is the same as well. I still have a stock stall converter around too so if I was feeling bored I could drop the trans when done and try them both (not likely).

Look forward to see how the custom converter works and hope it solves the issue.

 

[jtaylor]

Out of the graveyard

I wanted to bring this thread out of the grave, so here is a little update.

I have been waiting patiently for the modified converter, hopefully I will have it by next weekend, so I can do the ole' swap a roo'. So ready to move on and dial everything else in.

List of other stuff to do once I know the trans will engage:

Make bracket for TV trans cable
fix a couple of hose end leaks (didn't expect those!)
install brand new isuzu motor isolators (mounts)
install 4" slee lift
buy 4"slee lift
install soft 2.5" intake hose(still looking for a source)
bleed brakes
hook up gauges
-boost
-pyro
-temp
-oil pressure
-trans temp
temp and oil pressure will run through toyota harness
hook up tach
remove fuel filler restrictor
relocate second battery to under hood(house battery)
mount compressor under hood

Part two of build will include a complete conversion of the cargo area. I realized that in the three years I have owned this truck the back seats have been used twice. They normally stay stowed, and I had a platform in back that my fridge, second battery, and compressor were mounted to. I had my air tank, hi-lift, and misc stuff under the folded up seats. So now that I had to remove the rear seats to get into the fuel tank, they are staying out! I have a lot of room on the drivers side under the hood to work with, so the battery and compressor are moving up there. Full expo build will now commence in the back end, once the mechanicals are well sorted. Starting to get excited again!

 

[Mudder]

Any updates on the tranny issue?

Sent using a phone with auto correct

 

[jtaylor]

All I know is that the converter is done, just waiting on Dustin to pick it up and send it to me. Then I will put it in and see how it works. Cross yer fingers!

 

[Mudder]

Well I hope it work for ya!

Sent using a phone with auto correct