Is this the battery, starter or alternator?

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saillaw

saillaw

Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Threads
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Location
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
So I posted this at the end of another thread that is 9 pages long and didn't get any responses, and I now have more info so I thought I'd ask for help in a separate thread:


saillaw said:
We had flooding here last week and My wife was driving the 2003 LC and apparently drove through some quite deep water judging by the debris on the doors (half way up the outside of the doors). I'm surprised that water did not come into the cab (good door seals?).

However, after driving it this weekend, I noticed that when I turn the key to start, there is often a slight delay between turning to start and the engine turning over (1 or 2 sec). This was not present before. Our LC has ~85K miles on it.

The battery is fairly new, and once the engine starts turning it turns with gusto, so I don't think its a battery problem. Do you think that deep water driving may have damaged the contacts on the starter, or have any other ideas on what might be going on?

Thanks!
Tim
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So the update: Tonight my wife took the 100 to take my daughter to girl scouts and when they got done the 100 wouldn't start. I drove there and checked the battery terminals to make sure they were on tight. The negative seemed a tight bit loose so I torqued it down a bit. I then tried starting it and nothing at all, other than 1 click.

I could tell from residue in the engine bay that when my wife drove the 100 through the high water that water got everywhere, including ontop of the battery. So I then removed the covers on the battery and looked at the fluid which was full but had a bunch of particles floating around in it. Maybe some of the flood water got into the battery?

I then connected jumper cables to my STI which has very low voltage at idle expecting to have to rev the engine in order to be able to start the 100. However before revving the STI I tried the 100 and it started with zero delay as soon as the key was turned.

After disconnecting the cables, I checked the voltage display in the 100 while it idled and it read 14 volts.

All of this leads me to believe that I have a battery problem and not a starter or alternator problem. However the battery (continental) is only about 5 months old.

I let the car idle for a while when I got home to see if it will charge the battery. Hopefully it will start in the morning. If so, I guess I should buy a new battery? Any suggestions?

Thanks for the help!
Tim
 
petrotk40 said:
Sounds like starter contacts to me
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Crap, I don't like that answer, much more expensive repair. :(

I'm not sure I'm physically capable of doing the contacts myself at the moment due to recent knee surgery.

Why would connecting the jumper cables make a difference if it was the contacts?
 
saillaw said:
Crap, I don't like that answer, much more expensive repair. :(

I'm not sure I'm physically capable of doing the contacts myself at the moment due to recent knee surgery.

Why would connecting the jumper cables make a difference if it was the contacts?
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Wait until the morning. Mine died overnight and after a jump it has been problem free. I'm on a yellow top that is 6 years old and have had more lights on there than I can count. After you jumped it how far did you drive? It is weird that it died quite quickly
 
saillaw said:
The drive was only about 2 miles but I let it idle for another 20 min with all the lights and electronics off.
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you need to drive it to recharge the battery. 2 miles is not enough. Idling doesn't provide enough charge to bring a battery back to life. Last time I drove mine for 15 miles like a chicken with his head cut off. But hopefully yours will start.
 
Maybe your wife gets a free pass on this one, because it has the classic symptoms of starter contact failure.
- the 'click' when you turn the key to Start is exactly what happens when the contacts are failing
- its possible that the starter may work fine for several starts before the dreaded click comes back, but its only a question of when - not if.

Mine developed over several months. There were times when it would click for literally 20 or 30 key cycles before the starter engaged. You say your battery is only a few months old. Lets talk about your old battery. If you were having trouble starting because the battery was down, then that's exactly what causes the contact problem. Low voltage = high current, and that literally melts the starter contacts.

Test the battery and alternator by all means, but I suspect it is the starter that is dying.
 
I connected with Brian at ACC on Sat to discuss Ironman bumpers, installing my DT headers and replacing my starter (being proactive on this one). He said the 2uzfe starters usually give you notice before failing completely.

Sounds like yours may be giving you notice it's about ready to fail 100%
 
If it is the contacts, I would definitely recommend just getting a re-manufactured starter from NAPA or equivalent. It's about $50 and ensures everything works. I tried replacing the contacts and just couldn't get it all to work. I had to pull the manifold and starter 3 times....

There are some good threads on here about it. put some plywood over the hood and lay on that. Don't overtorque the manifold nuts, only takes 13lb-ft.
 
Thanks for the feedback all.

As an update the 100 wouldnt start this morning again. But it did immediately start when I jumped the battery. That makes me think its a dead battery.

My secretary has an extra new battery from her Ford Explorer she no longer owns and offered that to me, so I think I'll install it and see if it solves the problem. I'll report back with the results.
 
saillaw said:
Thanks for the feedback all.

As an update the 100 wouldnt start this morning again. But it did immediately start when I jumped the battery. That makes me think its a dead battery.

My secretary has an extra new battery from her Ford Explorer she no longer owns and offered that to me, so I think I'll install it and see if it solves the problem. I'll report back with the results.
Click to expand...

sounds like a battery to me too, sometimes you get a bad battery. I had a brand new battery from NAPA, their top of the line, it lasted 4 months. It happens.

to me is sounds like it won't hold a charge and doesn't have enough juice to turn over the starter, hence the click. I had the same issue in 4Runner i owned.

i've changed my starter out twice in my old 98 and it's not that bad, well the second time wasn't so bad, just annoying.
 
Saillaw, if it doesn't start the first time open and shut the hood hard. If it starts after that, it's your starter. If not, probably your battery.
 
Verify it's not corrosion between a battery post and battery clamp. That would give those symptoms, as not much current would get through the corrosion, and jump-starting would work.
 
... So I then removed the covers on the battery and looked at the fluid which was full but had a bunch of particles floating around in it...
Click to expand...

I vote battery. This would def kill the battery. Go get a DIEHARD platinum from sears and be done with it.
 
Or factory OEM Toyota. I'm still on my original. I've got 180k miles and it's 13 yrs old. Also, it's 9 F outstide right now, and it still starts like a champ!

Btw, I know I'm an anomaly :)
 
The new battery from the Ford Explorer that my secretary offered me didn't work because the posts are reversed (positive is outboard negative is inboard) and I would have had to move some of the wiring around to make it work. So I went ahead an put a new battery in it and it started right away with no pause between the key turn and the engine turn. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be the end of the problem.

Thanks for all the help and advice :cheers:
 
saillaw said:
The new battery from the Ford Explorer that my secretary offered me didn't work because the posts are reversed (positive is outboard negative is inboard) and I would have had to move some of the wiring around to make it work. So I went ahead an put a new battery in it and it started right away with no pause between the key turn and the engine turn. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be the end of the problem.

Thanks for all the help and advice :cheers:
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Glad it worked out. It's nice when the fix is the cheaper of all possibilities. Usually doesn't work like that for me...
 
Glad you noticed the different pole locations.
I didn't and blew the 40Amp fuseble link. :-(
 
I didn't notice until after I had set the battery in the tray, tightened it down, connected the negative wire to the positive post, and then as I was taking the black plastic off the negative post I thought, "hmm that's strange, usually the positive post is red". So then I double checked and caught my error before doing any damage :)
 
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