Is ICON Overkill for Stock Height Suspension?

[rc51kid]

I have to say I didn't read every post here but I tend to disagree with a lot of what is being said. I dont think a OEM shock is well suited for your needs. You don't want to lift the truck which I think is a great idea for your use. But you will be carrying heavy loads over longer distance. Also on "smoother" roads like forestry roads you tend to go faster than say crawling over rocks. So higher speed for longer distance with a heavy rig you will benefit from a really good shock. Also probably a better spring rate than stock springs will help also.

I did see some people recommending OME 861/862 and I think that is a great starting point for you.

Stick with OEM bushings. If you need caster adjustment, which you should not need, but if you do then use the plates.

Your real question is about shocks. I would buy the best shock you can. If you are diving through Death Valley in a loded rig 8 hours at a time on wash boards that puts more heat into a shock than rock crawling. Plus to me, those long days on remote "forresty" roads is where the extra stability and control of a good shock really helps to me.

I had new oem shocks. They are a bargain and are cheap. For the price I think they are great. But I just don't think they can control a heavy built truck on dirt roads the way a 2.5 remote res shock can.

So I recommend a good stock height spring. Then get the best shock that YOUR budget allows. Icons are not overkill for your need. If you can afford 2.5 remote res shock then I think they would be a good choice.

I had new OEM shocks. Felt ok but they were harsh to me and also kind of soft at the same time.

I had Fox 2.0. I actually liked the way the felt. But they failed at around 40,000 if I remember right. They are rebuildable but need to be sent in to the factory which adds down time and shipping cost. Ends up costing almost as much as new ones.

I replaced those with Radflo 2.5 remotes. They are rebuildable by me. Plus the extra volume in every thing should keep the oil temps much lower and extend the life considerably. Around town I would say they feel maybe a little better than the fox when the fox were new. The fox were nice when new. But on a open dirt road like a ranch road the Radflo are pretty awsome. They just feel better the faster you go. It get to where you realize you are just going way to fast to stop or turn but the truck still feels planted. I have had several dirt ranch road where I get up well over 60 and have to just remind myself to slow down.

Washbards are better but hell I think they suck with any shock. I am happy with myRadflo shocks. I would imagine Kings are even better. Icon 2.5 remotes might be better as well but they do both cost more and had longer wait times which mattered to me when I bought them.

Hope this helps

 

[Congo Cruiser]

I have to say I didn't read every post here but I tend to disagree with a lot of what is being said. I dont think a OEM shock is well suited for your needs. You don't want to lift the truck which I think is a great idea for your use. But you will be carrying heavy loads over longer distance. Also on "smoother" roads like forestry roads you tend to go faster than say crawling over rocks. So higher speed for longer distance with a heavy rig you will benefit from a really good shock. Also probably a better spring rate than stock springs will help also.

I did see some people recommending OME 861/862 and I think that is a great starting point for you.

Stick with OEM bushings. If you need caster adjustment, which you should not need, but if you do then use the plates.

Your real question is about shocks. I would buy the best shock you can. If you are diving through Death Valley in a loded rig 8 hours at a time on wash boards that puts more heat into a shock than rock crawling. Plus to me, those long days on remote "forresty" roads is where the extra stability and control of a good shock really helps to me.

I had new oem shocks. They are a bargain and are cheap. For the price I think they are great. But I just don't think they can control a heavy built truck on dirt roads the way a 2.5 remote res shock can.

So I recommend a good stock height spring. Then get the best shock that YOUR budget allows. Icons are not overkill for your need. If you can afford 2.5 remote res shock then I think they would be a good choice.

I had new OEM shocks. Felt ok but they were harsh to me and also kind of soft at the same time.

I had Fox 2.0. I actually liked the way the felt. But they failed at around 40,000 if I remember right. They are rebuildable but need to be sent in to the factory which adds down time and shipping cost. Ends up costing almost as much as new ones.

I replaced those with Radflo 2.5 remotes. They are rebuildable by me. Plus the extra volume in every thing should keep the oil temps much lower and extend the life considerably. Around town I would say they feel maybe a little better than the fox when the fox were new. The fox were nice when new. But on a open dirt road like a ranch road the Radflo are pretty awsome. They just feel better the faster you go. It get to where you realize you are just going way to fast to stop or turn but the truck still feels planted. I have had several dirt ranch road where I get up well over 60 and have to just remind myself to slow down.

Washbards are better but hell I think they suck with any shock. I am happy with myRadflo shocks. I would imagine Kings are even better. Icon 2.5 remotes might be better as well but they do both cost more and had longer wait times which mattered to me when I bought them.

Hope this helps

This is what I was originally thinking. I’ll PM you a few questions. Thanks for commenting.

 

[mudgudgeon]

This is what I was originally thinking. I’ll PM you a few questions. Thanks for commenting.

Throw your questions up here. I'm interested in this as others are too no doubt

 

[Congo Cruiser]

Throw your questions up here. I'm interested in this as others are too no doubt

Will do!

 

[Congo Cruiser]

Throw your questions up here. I'm interested in this as others are too no doubt

Here are the questions I sent @rc51kid (was a bit reluctant to clutter things up here since so much has been written about this...much of which I’ve read...just seeking guidance & thoughts on my specific idea...please excuse my ignorance):

—

Greetings! Again, many thanks for your lengthy comments on my recent thread querying whether ICON shocks for stock height suspension on my 95 80 would be appropriate.

Everything you wrote made sense to me, which is why I posted the query originally - I figured it would be better to go with a high quality shock from the beginning. I was thus a bit surprised to read some of the early comments about the ICONs only being appropriate for lifted vehicles.

So, Question 1:

Will using the ICON 2.5 reservoir shocks on stock height springs somehow cause the springs to not seat properly? (Excuse the ignorance - don’t see how they would.)

Question 2:

Do you see any disadvantages to running a higher end shock on stock springs? Would you be pleased with the OME 861/862 and ICON setup more than OEM springs and ICON shocks? (Presume you would based on your comment in the thread...I think the OMEs might be better for the weight I plan to carry).

Question 3:

The ICON website claims these particular shocks are for 0”-3” lifts. So I think I’ll be fine at stock height. Would a shock like this create an uneven vehicle stance? (Again, excuse the ignorance...I’m guessing the coil springs are what’s responsible for “stink bug” issues...which I want to avoid.)

ICON Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series 2.5 Series Shocks - ICON Vehicle Dynamics

Question 4 (last one):

Would my OME 861/862 plus ICON shocks option be significantly better for my needs than an OME Kit all around?

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment. Have a great weekend!

 

[Congo Cruiser]

Here are the questions I sent @rc51kid (was a bit reluctant to clutter things up here since so much has been written about this...much of which I’ve read...just seeking guidance & thoughts on my specific idea...please excuse my ignorance):

—

Greetings! Again, many thanks for your lengthy comments on my recent thread querying whether ICON shocks for stock height suspension on my 95 80 would be appropriate.

Everything you wrote made sense to me, which is why I posted the query originally - I figured it would be better to go with a high quality shock from the beginning. I was thus a bit surprised to read some of the early comments about the ICONs only being appropriate for lifted vehicles.

So, Question 1:

Will using the ICON 2.5 reservoir shocks on stock height springs somehow cause the springs to not seat properly? (Excuse the ignorance - don’t see how they would.)

Question 2:

Do you see any disadvantages to running a higher end shock on stock springs? Would you be pleased with the OME 861/862 and ICON setup more than OEM springs and ICON shocks? (Presume you would based on your comment in the thread...I think the OMEs might be better for the weight I plan to carry).

Question 3:

The ICON website claims these particular shocks are for 0”-3” lifts. So I think I’ll be fine at stock height. Would a shock like this create an uneven vehicle stance? (Again, excuse the ignorance...I’m guessing the coil springs are what’s responsible for “stink bug” issues...which I want to avoid.)

ICON Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series 2.5 Series Shocks - ICON Vehicle Dynamics

Question 4 (last one):

Would my OME 861/862 plus ICON shocks option be significantly better for my needs than an OME Kit all around?

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment. Have a great weekend!

@rc51kid - feel free to reply here if you’re willing. Thanks again!

 

[Congo Cruiser]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts on this query of mine. I’ve done quite a bit of research on this forum (but still feel a bit ignorant), so my thread (query) is more for validation purposes before I make a final decision. Really appreciate people weighing in.

 

[mudgudgeon]

springs are responsible for how the vehicle sits, ride height etc. Shocks don't carry any of the vehicle load. They are there to control the movement, or bounce of unsprung weight (diffs, wheels, suspension stuff under the springs) and to control bounce of the vehicle weight supported by the springs as you travel over bumps, dips etc.


quote from the Icon link you posted

"These shocks are configured specifically for each application in both length and damping tune."

I'd like to know how they are specifically built for each application, but made for a 3" range in suspension lift height. Contradictory to me.

They don't publish open/closed length of the shock. If one shock is supposed to cater for a 3" difference in lift height, I would wonder how its not going to be too long for 0" lift, or too short for 3" lift?

Does you need add bump stops to prevent it bottoming out on 0" lift? If so, its going to reduce effective range of suspension articulation.

I may be looking at this wrong, but I'd want more info before spending $1000 on a pair of sub-optimal length shocks

 

[Congo Cruiser]

springs are responsible for how the vehicle sits, ride height etc. Shocks don't carry any of the vehicle load. They are there to control the movement, or bounce of unsprung weight (diffs, wheels, suspension stuff under the springs) and to control bounce of the vehicle weight supported by the springs as you travel over bumps, dips etc.


quote from the Icon link you posted

"These shocks are configured specifically for each application in both length and damping tune."

I'd like to know how they are specifically built for each application, but made for a 3" range in suspension lift height. Contradictory to me.

They don't publish open/closed length of the shock. If one shock is supposed to cater for a 3" difference in lift height, I would wonder how its not going to be too long for 0" lift, or too short for 3" lift?

Does you need add bump stops to prevent it bottoming out on 0" lift? If so, its going to reduce effective range of suspension articulation.

I may be looking at this wrong, but I'd want more info before spending $1000 on a pair of sub-optimal length shocks

Agreed. It’s a point I found confusing...but I’m a novice. I figured having a shock that long would mean it would be compressed more than usual given the advertised range of 0”-3”.

I’m still reading and learning. Appreciate you weighing in.

 

[rc51kid]

springs are responsible for how the vehicle sits, ride height etc. Shocks don't carry any of the vehicle load. They are there to control the movement, or bounce of unsprung weight (diffs, wheels, suspension stuff under the springs) and to control bounce of the vehicle weight supported by the springs as you travel over bumps, dips etc.


quote from the Icon link you posted

"These shocks are configured specifically for each application in both length and damping tune."

I'd like to know how they are specifically built for each application, but made for a 3" range in suspension lift height. Contradictory to me.

They don't publish open/closed length of the shock. If one shock is supposed to cater for a 3" difference in lift height, I would wonder how its not going to be too long for 0" lift, or too short for 3" lift?

Does you need add bump stops to prevent it bottoming out on 0" lift? If so, its going to reduce effective range of suspension articulation.

I may be looking at this wrong, but I'd want more info before spending $1000 on a pair of sub-optimal length shocks

The industry is kind of secretive about the lengths on the shocks. I feel it is kind of silly but that is their prerogative. You can find all of the info with a lot of searching around in threads. When i was shock shopping i had a nice list of collapsed and extended lengths.

My opinion is that anyone doing this should start by getting the min and max length on the OEM shocks. This will tell you a lot. As long as the min length on you new shocks is not longer than the OEM shock you will be fine as far as over compressing the shock.

Then the max extended length is just a matter of dropping a spring (some other minor things like brake lines and stuff but we will ignore that for no). The spring coming unseated is a factor of extended shock length in relation to spring free length. That is why some springs that have a long free length like the slinky springs and to a much lesser extent 861/862 can be an advantage. The longer spring allows you to run a shock with a longer extended length and get better articulation. But you need the right shock for that.

When i looked at shocks honestly most shocks had similar lengths and strokes. Regardless if they were for a 0" lift or a 3" lift. Most manufactures made 2 lengths for the 80. You can ask them if the longer ones need bump stop extensions.

In general, lets say the 0"-2" lift front shock from XXX company for the 80 is 15" collapses and 25" extended giving it a stroke of 10". The 2"-4" shock they sell will simply be 2" longer or something. 17" compressed and 27" extended but still 10" stroke. This is where you can need bump stop extensions and you usually dont get extra stroke in the shock.

No i have to admit i have not looked at these numbers in a long time. I think the shock is NOT really a 1:1 ratio of travel and wheel movement. So you might see that there longer shock is really only 1.5" longer but it gives 2" at the wheel or something.

Start making a nice big spread sheet with all the lengths you can find. It is out there. You will see they are similar lengths and stoke for similar lifts. But please dont think i am saying the shocks are the same. The build quality and engineering is worlds different. The OME, Fox 2.0 and maybe Icon 2.0 are fine shocks but not built like a rebuild able 2.5 remote shock from Icon/Radflo/King. Plenty of very knowlagble people here are happy with a 2.0 shock so it is debatable if you need a high end shock. I feel the truck benefits from it but that is up to the end user.

 

[SHREDwagon]

I have a quick question - is going with ICON remote reservoir VS 2.5 shocks overkill if I’m staying at stock height on new OEM springs?

Yes - way overkill for your needs. Toyota coils? Save your money and buy Toyota or OME shocks. Lots have people have overlanded around the world on OME shocks without failure.

I predict your coil selection and shock valving will "evolve". Would be sad wasting $$$$ experimenting, instead of $.

Nice 80 btw!