Ironman Bumper - LX470 mount seems extremely sketchy? Opinions?

[yuji]

Yeah there's no way the frame is different. Mines a 2000.

Given that the mount and frame are very very solid, I just can't get around any "installation issues". No matter what, physics prevails and we have a rigid body that, given the current spacer, will contact on two points: the frame horn thinger and the next closest point, the rear of the spacer.

Ah boo. Would have been interesting to see the difference between my truck / mount and yours!

 

[OregonLC]

Yuji, I'd give Mark a call because something isn't right. If you have 1" spacers then you either have the wrong cradle or a different frame end.

I got back up under and I have maybe 1/16" gap on top:




And I'm snug at both rear bolts.

 

[yuji]

Yuji, I'd give Mark a call because something isn't right. If you have 1" spacers then you either have the wrong cradle or a different frame end.

Email sent. Will call later.

Hey thanks for checking out your truck for me - your time is much appreciated and makes me feel a little more certain somethings up. Your bottom side mount looks parallel to the frame. Angle isn't good, but that's how it looks. If mine were possibly flush (if I ground the front frame horn), i'd get a much bigger gap than 1/16 at the top. Odd thing is that our spacers, mount height, frame height seem identical. Hahaha. I'm very curious now what the answer is.

Definitely owe you a beer!

What kind of winch is that? Just grabbed the Engo from MT.

 

[Griffin]

For what it's worth, I have the ironman deluxe commercial on my 99 and I do not remember having any issues with the install.

Ran the bumper for about a year now and have dropped it on rocks many of times with no problems. I also have a winch installed.

 

[OregonLC]

Let us know what you find out Yuji.

I have a Titan TW-12 that I got on a group buy back in 2011 and finally got around to installing. Still need to feed the power to it. Solenoid tucks nicely in front of air filter.

 

[yuji]

I ended up just installing it as is.

Here's my gap at the top.

I was able to buy some .28 inch washers and it fit under the mount perfectly. The mount is *definitely* straight when the washers are on there. Nothing illustrates the problem like putting washers in there.
That said, I forgot to buy 4 of them, and couldn't find any more of them, so I said "screw it!" and went back to the crooked install.

Considering the amount I was able to torque the bolts... the frame horn seems very strong. At this point, I don't mind that it's resting on the frame horn.
If I wanted to do it right, i'd go back to those washers.

My conclusion right now is that everyone has this same install and it's perfectly OK.

It feels solid enough that if I just followed the instructions I'd have noticed no issues. Since the front bolt doesn't do anything, I was starting to question the install. I'm guessing everyones also rests on the frame horn. The spacer even looked straight, though I know that's an impossibility.


Install pics:

I love Plastidip...

Left to do:
Drill 3 more holes through bumper.
Hook up 100w HIDs.
Hook up winch.


PROBLEM:

My AHC is now in LOW. Need to do TBs tomorrow... but I think it's going to rain. Really need those rear springs too... anyone have some 100 springs for me

 

[OregonLC]

What did MetalTech say about the fitment? I personally wouldn't accept anything that didn't fit 'right', especially with a front bumper.

I may have some time on Monday when I can loosen things back up and verify fitment inside the mount.

Also I didn't bother with spraying the trim in the gap. Can't really notice it.

 

[OregonLC]

So Yuji, I loosened all three bolts on one side today and I have about 3/32" of play up/down. There is no 'bridging' between frame horn and rear bolt, both rear engage at the same point. If I torque just the front it won't completely close the gap but it flexes down to about 1/16" of play. The front through-bolt is either for winching reinforcement, or more likely for crash certification.

While the mount allows for a wide range of bumper pitch and height adjustment I would not just 'make it work', especially if you intend to winch, use the recover brackets, or jack from it. I would think the bending moment on the rear bolts would de-rate them significantly.

I'm still very puzzled at how mine fits so tight and not yours...

 

[yuji]

So Yuji, I loosened all three bolts on one side today and I have about 3/32" of play up/down. There is no 'bridging' between frame horn and rear bolt, both rear engage at the same point. If I torque just the front it won't completely close the gap but it flexes down to about 1/16" of play. The front through-bolt is either for winching reinforcement, or more likely for crash certification.

While the mount allows for a wide range of bumper pitch and height adjustment I would not just 'make it work', especially if you intend to winch, use the recover brackets, or jack from it. I would think the bending moment on the rear bolts would de-rate them significantly.

I'm still very puzzled at how mine fits so tight and not yours...

OregonLC! Thanks for taking the time man, I know that's not easy. Did you take the bumper off the mount too??

So you've seen my videos, the drawings, etc. and I assume we're 100% on the same page about the issue.

Just to be super clear: I can fit a .3 inch washer on both rear 2 bolts (you could test this without putting it through the bolt). I have less than .3 inch vertical play at the front, where the frame horn contacts the inside of the ironman mount. Thus.. when the rear bolts are tightened, there must be a bridge between the horn and rear spacer.

Once the bolts are tightened, I can't confirm whether this bridging is happening or if the spacer and ironman mount deflect enough to account for the roughly .3 inches. Perhaps the mount deflects enough to make the surface flat? I can not get a camera, wedge, anything inside the mount area to confirm.

Visually though, it's at an angle.

Given that the frame horn is taller than the spacer, and assuming we want the rear 2 bolts, spacer, and frame to line up flat, load MUST rest on the frame horn.

So I guess this all boils down to 2 statements:

A: Is your frame horn taller than the spacer?
B: Is there enough deflection in the ironman mount for the 2 bottom bolts to lie flat with the spacer against the frame, even though the frame horn is taller than the spacers?

Are we missing anything? Is the spacer angled? Any other lapses in judgement?


So just to be 1000000% clear, because these descriptions are very confusing.
Here's what I believe to happen... compare ideal mate to what's in the way: the frame horn. Note the frame horn is not exactly .3 tall vs spacer. It's a little shorter but that's what I wrote. Hope it illustrates just as well..

Compare to .3 washers in between spacer and frame solution:

 

[OregonLC]

I had the two rear bolts backed out 1/2". As soon as I got a couple of turns off the rear bolts they pulled away from the mount. A gap did not open on the spacer side at any point. With the front still tight I had 1/16" of up/down movement. This gap was the same across its depth. The gap opened to about 3/32". When the front was loosened.

As a side note, I used the opportunity to invert the front bolt, no need to have so much thread sticking down.


I should have taken a video...

 

[hoser]

Or trim .3" off the bottom of the frame horn tab.

 

[yuji]

I had the two rear bolts backed out 1/2". As soon as I got a couple of turns off the rear bolts they pulled away from the mount. A gap did not open on the spacer side at any point. With the front still tight I had 1/16" of up/down movement. This gap was the same across its depth. The gap opened to about 3/32". When the front was loosened.

As a side note, I used the opportunity to invert the front bolt, no need to have so much thread sticking down.


I should have taken a video...

Hahaha this is comical!

By rear 2 bolts, do you mean "1 rear bolt on each side" or both functional bolts?

I would experience the same thing - the rear bolts will back away within a few turns. It is only apparently that the mount isn't flat when you force it to be flat... the weight of the mount ensures it is always "leaning forward" with the back of the mount pressing UP against the frame.

I don't see a gap in the spacer either.. it is only apparent when leveling the mount.. it requires pushing the mount down against the top of the frame OR pushing the front of the mount UP.

I can't visually confirm whether the spacer has a space in it once it's sitting against the frame. You can't see there... so I can only make educated guesses.

Would you agree with my logic here about the frame horn height vs spacer?
You don't think it might be how it's supposed to work? Not ideal, but works? How much do you think these 4 bolts are rated for?

At some point, I wonder if I'm just being paranoid. I was definitely shocked into high alert by the flimsy, too short "sleeve" between .25 inch plate (even it were the correct size, that sleeve would get crushed before the plate even notices it) and through-bolt.

Very curious what ironman says.

BTW: we should meet and settle this once and for all! Are you in any of the cruiser clubs?

 

[LandCruisers4Life]

I can't believe the there are 2 different 100 frames though.

Probably not. However roof rack bolt patterns can be all over the place

 

[yuji]

Or trim .3" off the bottom of the frame horn tab.

That's genius and so obvious.

I will kill that sucker...

 

[hoser]

I can't believe the there are 2 different 100 frames though.

I looked it up once and there were like 7-8 different frame part numbers just for North America alone. But I'm not sure what the differences were, nor could I tell which part numbers superseded which part numbers... if at all.

That's genius and so obvious.

I will kill that sucker...

Just try to not cut off the captured lower mounting nut in case you ever wanted to go back to the stock bumper.

 

[yuji]

I looked it up once and there were like 7-8 different frame part numbers just for North America alone. But I'm not sure what the differences were, nor could I tell which part numbers superseded which part numbers... if at all.

Just try to not cut off the captured lower mounting nut in case you ever wanted to go back to the stock bumper.

This is just so smart it's silly. I can't believe how obvious this solution is. Never considered it. Hahaha. .3 should clear that no problem.

 

[OregonLC]

This is just so smart it's silly. I can't believe how obvious this solution is. Never considered it. Hahaha. .3 should clear that no problem.

It actually might not be smart; it only moves the gap to the top. The mount is sized correctly for the horn or it wouldn't slide over it. Cutting doesn't solve the whole problem. The problem is with the spacer. Further, on my LC there are AC lines right above the DS frame stub. Don't know if these would hit or not, but there's not that much room.

I think you're on the right track with the washers. Although, I would hope that by now Eli from Ironman would have a solution for you, gratis and over-nighted to your door.

 

[yuji]

It actually might not be smart; it only moves the gap to the top. The mount is sized correctly for the horn or it wouldn't slide over it. Cutting doesn't solve the whole problem. The problem is with the spacer. Further, on my LC there are AC lines right above the DS frame stub. Don't know if these would hit or not, but there's not that much room.

I think you're on the right track with the washers. Although, I would hope that by now Eli from Ironman would have a solution for you, gratis and over-nighted to your door.

There will always be a gap at the top though. The tolerances aren't that tight that the mount fits perfectly over the horn Whether that gap is .1 or .3 is the same to me.

That's a good point, the DS side has some rigid tubing that could be an issue.

I'll reassess when I have it apart!

 

[hoser]

The AC lines that run over the DS frame horn are a little known issue with ARB bumper mounts. Several have had the mount rub through the line. It just takes a little bending/coaxing of the AC line to get a little more clearance. You can also add some rubber hose over it as a buffer.... but a little bending was all I needed to do when I had my ARB deluxe bar.

 

[OregonLC]

Yuji, did you ever get this sorted out?