Ironman Bumper - LX470 mount seems extremely sketchy? Opinions?

[yuji]

I was installing the ironman bumper today and started seeing issues immediately as I tried to mount to the frame.

Are there any major differences between the LX470 front frame and LC100?

Let's start with the front bolt. It seems completely useless. They beef it up with a "special spacer" (.3 inch beefy washer) which does nothing.... because:

The front bolt "floats": the exterior ironman mount is larger than the frame itself, so no matter how much you tighten the main bolt, it is still just tightening against the ironman mount only.

It will provide more rigidity to the beam, but I want to confirm that's it's sole purpose because this means the mount will squeak and clank since it's connected to the frame by one side only and the other end easily has .5 inch play with moderate pressure.

Also the "crush tube" that goes on the bolt inside of the frame is way too short. What does this do? It wil float freely and rattle. I ignored this piece.

Let this image explain.

Most importantly though: the horizontal U spacer is too short and leaves a huge gap of air for the rear bolts.

If you tighten the rear bolts as suggested, it causes the entire mount to angle downwards. Since the front isn't bolted TO anything, I can easily lift the front end up "clank clank clank". Video here.

I take this to mean that if there was a heavy horizontal load to the mount (via winching), it would translate most of that stress directly to the bolts as the frame isn't effectively mating to the mount .

My solution right now is to go to the local LC shop, ask them to fab spacers for the rear 2 bolts AND OR weld the mount to the frame. Since the front bolt doesn't do anything, I think it makes sense to put a shorter bolt through the top and place a nut on the inside of the frame. The nut would probably have to be welded on the inside since it can't be held.

I'm just kinda surprised by this and curious what others w/ IronMan on 100 series thought while installing.

 

[OregonLC]

Mine fit tight and solid. I'm not sure how you have any play at all. The frame doesn't deflect enough to tighten down on the crush tubes, but it shouldn't and they don't make noise. All-in-all it's an outstanding bumper. Took maybe 2 hrs to install with 2 people. I agree that the front bolt acts on the mount differently than the rear. Mine is rock solid when mounted.

I would not "ignore" the crush tube. It's there for a reason.

 

[yuji]

Mine fit tight and solid. I'm not sure how you have any play at all. The frame doesn't deflect enough to tighten down on the crush tubes, but they don't make noise. All-in-all it's an outstanding bumper. Took maybe 2 hrs to install with 2 people.

Hey OregonLC! Can't believe I saw your cruiser the other day and didn't even know it was you. I'm about to have a very very similar setup!

Fitting tight and solid is the exact opposite of my experience so far. Given my images, do you notice any differences to yours?

So your spacer bracket against the frame is flush with bottom of the mount? I have .3 inches of space between the frame + spacer and the inner bottom plate of the mount.

Crush tube: if it doesn't contact anything, what's the point? It's too short by about 1/4. Same goes for that entire front bolt - it just tightens up against itself has no impact on the frame inside. Since they provide super heavy duty washers, I'm wondering if it's for stiffening up the mount itself through the center.

But even that's OK by me if the rear bolts would mount flush.. either way those are the only load bearing bolts it seems.

 

[OregonLC]

I don't remember there being any noticeable play at all when sliding the cradle onto the frame. You don't have the spacers in a "u" do you? They should be an "n" IIRC. The crush tube will prevent excess torque or load from collapsing the assembly.

Edit: where you show "air". I had none.

 

[yuji]

I don't remember there being any noticeable play at all when sliding the cradle onto the frame. You don't have the spacers in a "u" do you? They should be an "n" IIRC. The crush tube will prevent excess torque or load from collapsing the assembly.

They are in an "n" indeed. I'm surprised you remember that

Yeah the height of the mount is exactly the height of the thin OEM bumper mount bracket. The "n" spacer is about 75% of the height of that, so there's a big gap between the 2 load bearing bolts on each side and the frame. If I ground that OEM bumper mount off, I could at least mount it flush but the mount would have a gap at the top. I'll give ironman a call..

If the crush tube is a free floating metal ring / not pressed up against anything, it can't possibly be doing anything. It's just a very light piece of metal not attached to anything (mine is some very, very thin stuff.. slightly less than a 16th).

These things in general are for getting a certain amount of spacing, applying pressure on bearings, bearing some load, etc.

Edit: Okay that's great news! because this can't be right. The spacer might be the wrong one / too small. Hopefully a call will clear this up, and I can replace it with a ground block from the local shop.

Thanks for your help with this.. it's very much appreciated!

 

[OregonLC]

I should be able to measure mine tomorrow if it helps.

 

[yuji]

I should be able to measure mine tomorrow if it helps.

If you could measure the height of your spacer I'd be grateful. A beer on me that I can actually offer!

Seems the variables are:

- Frame height
- Mount inner height
- "n" Spacer height

I can only imagine the spacer being different

 

[OregonLC]

Shim:




No gap at top:




Overall height:

 

[yuji]

Hmm, I guess my spacer is the same height. It's 1". The height of the mount is the same. The frame has to be the same.

According to your pictures, I think we have the same setup. Your mount must also be angled. The mount is taller than the height of the frame plus spacer.

Have you winched with it?

These bolts are rather beefy, so I guess it's enough! I guess the whole experience got me a little worried with the front bolt debacle especially since the winch sits here and the forces are huge.

I'm going to find a .3" spacer and call it a day.

 

[OregonLC]

I still think there's something amiss because mine was a tight fit. I can't believe Ironman would produce a bumper that has that kind of gap. So on yours, are you saying that tightening the middle bolt won't pull up all of the gap because its bridging from the rear bolt to the frame horn? This was not the case for mine at all. And I don't believe the LX has a different frame than the LC. I'd take it into Mark and let him have a look-see.

Too bad Eli doesn't frequent the forum to chime in.


These are my frame horns:



And here you can see the gap to the front body mount bracket. I yours the same? In this pic it's completely level and tight.

 

[yuji]

You've given me a great reason to go outside and wrench in this great weather.

Ill go take the mount off and take a video

 

[OregonLC]

Not sayin' that you did, but I remember something vaguely about putting the spacers in wrong the first try. Can't remember if it was backwards and the holes didn't align or upside down or both. If they were 'u' and not 'n' then I could see it leaving a gap.

 

[yuji]

I can't believe Ironman would produce a bumper that has that kind of gap. So on yours, are you saying that tightening the middle bolt won't pull up all of the gap because its bridging from the rear bolt to the frame horn? This was not the case for mine at all. And I don't believe the LX has a different frame than the LC. I'd take it into Mark and let him have a look-see.

Exactly! The middle bolt can't pull up the gap. The front bolt doesn't even contact the frame, so it doesn't push or pull. The rear bolt applies pressure to the rear of the spacer.

Great description.

Here's a new image: All weight is on the furthest edge of the spacer, and the "horn" which can't be all that strong. Definitely not "frame strong".

I just went outside and removed the mount / recorded a video. Sorry it's so wobbly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8THjaNNFA

I flipped the 'n' spacer and it's still the same height. I'm thinking I'll get a spacer fabbed that fits exactly between the frame and spacer and a little TALLER than the frame horn. At the very least, the load should be focused on a flat surface between the mount and frame, not the frame horn and the rearmost edge of the spacer.

 

[OregonLC]

I saw the problem the second I hit play: the mount is too far aft and the body mount is hitting the radius of where the lower mount curves up. See where mine clears the body mount below.

The spacers do have a front/back but the mount holes are fixed and shouldn't even allow it to go that far back and still line up with the frame nuts.

I'd drive it over to MT and have Mark look at it...

Edit: I looked at it again and I don't think it is too far back, it's hitting the radius due to the deflection up.

 

[OregonLC]

Hey, so thinking about this more... You don't suppose those four black round spacers are for the LX because it has a different frame thickness do you? It wasn't clear to me in the instructions. What if you put those on top of the 'n' to space it down. I bet that would give you the correct fit.

 

[yuji]

Hey, so thinking about this more... You don't suppose those four black round spacers are for the LX because it has a different frame thickness do you? It wasn't clear to me in the instructions. What if you put those on top of the 'n' to space it down. I bet that would give you the correct fit.

I wondered about that but the spacers are .35 and the space is .3. I thought about grinding them down.. but that was late yesterday and I don't have a game plan yet : )

I also temporarily put in one of the washers but it's still too small.

I'd drive to MT no problem, if it was close!! It was a hell of a trek when I made it out there last time. That's a last resort!

So just to be clear, since we now have images and stuff: in your setup, the bottom spacer actually contacts the frame and mount flush?

You see how on mine, the spacer would only contact the frame on the absolute farthest edge?

I can't tell at this point if this is by design and doesn't matter, or if it's an issue.

If I didn't have other questions popping up along the way putting me on "high alert", I probably wouldn't have stopped.

I'm going to go measure the frame

 

[OregonLC]

Yes, mine had none of the play that yours does. I won't be able to play with it more until thurs but I can loosen it back up and give you the exact amount of play.

I did download the PDF of the install and it does look like those large black washers go on the long bolt. Must have been necessary for air bag certification or something.

Question: if your spacer is the same height and your mount is the same height, what is the height of your frame rail? And do your frame horns look the same as mine?

 

[OregonLC]

In your 2nd vid, it looks like you have a gap between the bottom of the frame and the top of the mount. I have no such gap. In fact, it overlaps on mine.

 

[yuji]

In your 2nd vid, it looks like you have a gap between the bottom of the frame and the top of the mount. I have no such gap. In fact, it overlaps on mine.

View attachment 761007

That's very very interesting. The sides overlap the frame! no space on the top. That's just not happening here. Yeah I too should be checking this out later.

In my second vid, the bolts are loose so the ironman mount would normally be higher. Even if it was though, yeah, there'd be a gap towards the front bolt for the reasons described earlier.

Here's the frame:

Hey are you anywhere near SE PDX?

 

[OregonLC]

I'll measure my frame tonight. I can't believe the there are 2 different 100 frames though. What year is your truck?

I was looking at some other posts and it appears that other brands use the same type of spacer and have the same fit that I do. Wish we could figure this out for you. It's a fantastic bumper. Have you seen the OEM fog switch? And I was very skeptical about the Ironman fogs but I would say they throw 2x the light of stock.

I'm actually over by MT.