Installed some eclipses today, went pretty easily and sounds GREAT!

[Bat Masterson]

Hmmm...so I should just turn down the base and replace the sub in the back? Is there an exact speaker match for that back sub grill so I can do something similiar to the front doors?

Dave

 

[turbocruiser]

Keep in mind the Eclipses are a sensative speaker that helps make up for the lack of power of the stock head unit/amp. That said, there is only so much you can do with the stock unit. If you are turning up the stock head unit to 3/4, there is no question you are clipping amp in the head unit very badly. Clipping an amp regularly will distroy speakers quickly, no matter what the brand.

Ditto, even though it is technically silly to say, power does not destroy speakers, distortion does. Just one more reason why vacuum tubes rule, sorry just have to have that last word whenever I can!

 

[cary]

Ditto, even though it is technically silly to say, power does not destroy speakers, distortion does. Just one more reason why vacuum tubes rule, sorry just have to have that last word whenever I can!

Vacuum tubes will clip more than most solid state amps of the same rated power when driving real world loads. The big difference is in how they clip. When a Tube amp clips, they tend to primarly clip in even harmonics. Further, they tend to round the waveform, rather than the harsh cutoff of many solid state amps. Both types of amps have their place and both work best when not overdriven.

 

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Hmmm...so I should just turn down the base and replace the sub in the back? Is there an exact speaker match for that back sub grill so I can do something similiar to the front doors?

Dave

no...not exact that is worth a damn....come on, the sub amp is the size of a deck of playing cards, and it is 6" or so.

I ended up replacing the stock head unit for a more powerful one and bought a amp and 12"for the back....and I'm still not 100% happy, but it will do.

No magic to be had...

 

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Do some searching, there is a guy who made some enclosures here on MUD

 

[p8nt]

OK, ive only had my 97 for about a month now, so forgive the newbish questions: #1 How many speakers are in the vehicle?; #2 Do all 80s have a rear sub? #3 When installing a new head unit is it suggested to bypass the existing amp? #4 Any recomendations as far close to factory fit speakers?

 

[turbocruiser]

Vacuum tubes will clip more than most solid state amps of the same rated power when driving real world loads. The big difference is in how they clip. When a Tube amp clips, they tend to primarly clip in even harmonics. Further, they tend to round the waveform, rather than the harsh cutoff of many solid state amps. Both types of amps have their place and both work best when not overdriven.

Not so, well, partially so, I have never heard a tube amp "clip" they do distort but the distortion is harmonic distortion and sorta amplifies the signal wave. On an oscilliscope you will see the same (more or less) signal wave amplified whereas with solid state amps you will see drastic differences between the normal signal wave and the overdriven signal wave. The tube amps' distortion is heard as a "bloom" (what we tube freaks call it) whereas the solid state amps are heard as harsh horrible hideous sounding distortion, followed by the "clip", followed by the speakers grenading. I am interested though Cary, have you ever actually heard a tube amp clip? Not arguing, just asking.

 

[Cruisin'Carolina]

OK, ive only had my 97 for about a month now, so forgive the newbish questions: #1 How many speakers are in the vehicle?; #2 Do all 80s have a rear sub? #3 When installing a new head unit is it suggested to bypass the existing amp? #4 Any recomendations as far close to factory fit speakers?

Search 80s tech and READ EVERYTHING about the stereo.

THere are 7 stock speakers.

I don't know, I think so.

I did.

You already have the closest aftermarket fit...

SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND

 

[cary]

Not so, well, partially so, I have never heard a tube amp "clip" they do distort but the distortion is harmonic distortion and sorta amplifies the signal wave. On an oscilliscope you will see the same (more or less) signal wave amplified whereas with solid state amps you will see drastic differences between the normal signal wave and the overdriven signal wave. The tube amps' distortion is heard as a "bloom" (what we tube freaks call it) whereas the solid state amps are heard as harsh horrible hideous sounding distortion, followed by the "clip", followed by the speakers grenading. I am interested though Cary, have you ever actually heard a tube amp clip? Not arguing, just asking.

Yes you have heard a tube amp clip, that is what you are calling bloom. Unless ou are pushing 500+ watts per side, you have had an amp clip on you, whether you realize it or not. The difference is that when a tube amp clips, it rounds the waveform and produced mostly even order harmonics, which is what gives that bloom sound. They start to run into what is termed "dynamic compression". When most solid state amps clip, they tend to have a sharper cutoff of the waveform, but also produce primarly odd order harmonics, what you term that horible hideous distortion. How an amp clips however is much more than solid state vs. tubes. It is a function of power supply, regulation, circuit design and output devices. For example, a FET will sound much more like a tube when it clips than bi-polar output device because a FET is a current limited device like a tube instead of a voltage limited device like a Bi-polar device (I may have the voltage / current limited flipped).

You also need to seperate out distortion from clipping. Distortion is any change in the signal from the original. Clipping is a form of distortion.

FYI, I have heard more tube amps than most people will ever in their life. Everything from 3 watt SET amps to the large ARC 1kw monoblocks. Out of the group I still love triode's. I have yet to find a tube amp that works for me for two reasons. 1) I am unwilling to spend my time tube rolling, baising, waiting for the things to warm up, etc.. If I am going to have tubes in my system it will be in the pre-amp. 2) I simply am unwilling to spend the fortune that is necessary to get enough tube power to drive my speakers. My Maggies really need about 500 watts per side into 4 ohms to sound right, and really like 1kw per side. This is the reason that Jim Whiney has always paired them with either big Brystons (like the 7B monoblock) or the huge ARC amps when using Tubes. (that and ARC was the original Magnepan distributor).

Cary

 

[p8nt]

Search 80s tech and READ EVERYTHING about the stereo.

THere are 7 stock speakers.

I don't know, I think so.

I did.

You already have the closest aftermarket fit...

SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND

Thanks man, I keep forgetting about the search

 

[turbocruiser]

Yes you have heard a tube amp clip, that is what you are calling bloom. Unless ou are pushing 500+ watts per side, you have had an amp clip on you, whether you realize it or not. The difference is that when a tube amp clips, it rounds the waveform and produced mostly even order harmonics, which is what gives that bloom sound. They start to run into what is termed "dynamic compression". When most solid state amps clip, they tend to have a sharper cutoff of the waveform, but also produce primarly odd order harmonics, what you term that horible hideous distortion. How an amp clips however is much more than solid state vs. tubes. It is a function of power supply, regulation, circuit design and output devices. For example, a FET will sound much more like a tube when it clips than bi-polar output device because a FET is a current limited device like a tube instead of a voltage limited device like a Bi-polar device (I may have the voltage / current limited flipped).

You also need to seperate out distortion from clipping. Distortion is any change in the signal from the original. Clipping is a form of distortion.

FYI, I have heard more tube amps than most people will ever in their life. Everything from 3 watt SET amps to the large ARC 1kw monoblocks. Out of the group I still love triode's. I have yet to find a tube amp that works for me for two reasons. 1) I am unwilling to spend my time tube rolling, baising, waiting for the things to warm up, etc.. If I am going to have tubes in my system it will be in the pre-amp. 2) I simply am unwilling to spend the fortune that is necessary to get enough tube power to drive my speakers. My Maggies really need about 500 watts per side into 4 ohms to sound right, and really like 1kw per side. This is the reason that Jim Whiney has always paired them with either big Brystons (like the 7B monoblock) or the huge ARC amps when using Tubes. (that and ARC was the original Magnepan distributor).

Cary

Sheesh Cary, control the caffeine bud , we are gonna get nowhere here cause your definition of "clipping" and mine are mostly different. Remember when I wrote "us tube freaks" well, apparently our language is as incompatible as our equipment. When I'm saying "clip" I'm talking the absolutely audible "clip" that happens to the solid state setups as they are overdriven. I accept and acknowledge that when you say "clip" you are referring to the the overdriven state of almost any amp (I'd love to see the ARC's "clip" as you are defining it ) and what happens when the waveform's signal will abruptly stop towards the top end. So we are both right by our own definitions. How's that for a cop-out! What I'm saying is simply with solid state stuff (Not all of it of course, but for the purposes of my tube fanaticism I'm gonna go generic there! Ohh, none of my slanderous statements about solid state applies to Krell and some select others ) the distortion that is experienced is extremely "unharmonic" if thats the term and at some set point the speakers clip loudly and then the damage and destruction starts. You do not normally get that with tubes. As a funny: I attend audiofests all the time and we tubists typically go to the solid state setups to make them audibly distort and then go to the terrific tube setups and listen to them audibly bloom. We all absolutely realize that with tubes it is indeed "distortion" in that the original signal wave is altered but you dont giva damn when it sounds so sweet. Its sorta like the difference between the buzz you get from good Rum, and the buzz you get from a square punch to the pucker-upper - both are deviations from regular reality, but one of em feels better ! Anyways, I definitely did not mean to make the argument insulting to anyone at all who is proud of solid state stuff, like I've written over and over tubists are fanatics!

Ohh, all that stuff you wrote about tube equipment, I dont have to bias anything at all, I dont have to roll anything at all, I dont have to wait long warmups , nothing much more than testing the tubes every five thousand hours or so or whenever they sound sorta strange and while my macs cannot properly power your Maggies, they definitely do well with my B&W's and those aren't the most efficient examples of speakers either. Anyway, all I'm saying is I'm a fanatic, and I invite you or anyone at all to join the cult! No offense meant to you or to anyone at all. Laters.

 

[cary]

Turbocruiser,

It's just I am more anal in my definitions than most, clipping it clipping to me. What you are talking about is Audible Clipping. As far as getting those big ARC's to clip, yep it can be done. I used to be able to light up my clipping lights on my old 300/watt/channel high current amp without effort with these. An extra 5 db isn't going to be hard to do. Even the diehard tube guys will admit that 250w/ch into 4 ohms is the absolute minimum with my Maggies (I use the 2.7's which need a bit of power to light up).

FYI, what you term that harsh clipping is a predominance of odd order harmonics when most solid state amps clip (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th). Next time you are hanging around with your buddies, mention it, it will make you look like a .

We have way different tastes in audio equipment. I have never been able to warm up to Mac equiptment (I think their tube amps are sterile sounding for tube amps), same goes for the B&W house sound when never worked for me. On the other end, I can't stand the sound of Krell stuff, to dry and analytical.

Speakers that maks me warm and fuzzy are things from Magnepan, Vandersteen, Sound Lab, BIG Martin Logans, and old large Snell's (CV's come to mine). Front end equiptment that makes me happy comes from companies like Bel Canto, Sunfire (I know, but it really does sound that good), old Hafler, Cal Audio Labs (defunct) and Conrad Johnson. I won't get into cabling since that is more controversial than politics and religion combined.

 

[turbocruiser]

Fair enough friend, I'd love to listen to your system sometime.

 

[NaterGator]

Ahh what a good set of cans and a headphone amp can do for your wallet