Input/confirmation requested... likely bad alternator (1 Viewer)

[MissouriLC]

Hello, all, and sorry for the long-winded nature of this post. However, I am seeking some input on what I am fairly certain is a bad alternator.

By way of background, the truck is a 2000 Land Cruiser, 250K miles. Battery was replaced upon purchase with a NAPA Legend 24F, approximately 19 months ago. The ORIGINAL Toyota alternator was replaced around 8 months ago (w/ about 242K miles) with an Ultima reman unit from O'Reilly. It is a Denso alternator, but I have no idea of what the reman consists of. The original was replaced because I was experiencing some low voltage symptoms over the winter, including dimming headlights, and ScanGauge was showing as low as 12.3 to 12.4 v at idle, with max readings on start-up at 13.3 to 13.4 v. No second battery, no winch, just aux lights on their own electrical circuit that is connected directly to the positive battery terminal.

Yesterday (Sunday), we drove 70 miles to the Meramec River for a day of swimming. ScanGauge was showing 14.1 v at startup when we left in the morning, and was hovering between 13.5 and 13.7 v for most of the 1 hour 15 minute drive. We parked at the beach, and I used my 12v air pump (plugged into the port in the rear hatch area) to inflate tubes for about 15 minutes, with the engine running the entire time. Truck was then parked for 7 hours while we swam.

When packing up, I started the engine (but did not check the dash or ScanGauge) for about 5 minutes to deflate the tubes, and then shut the car off. We then spent the next 40 or so minutes packing up, and then got in the car to leave. Upon starting (truck fired up normally), I immediately noticed that the battery light was on, and the ScanGauge hadn't automatically turned on. Voltage gauge was hovering just above the halfway mark. I started the ScanGauge, and it was showing 12.0 to 12.1 v. Some quick checking confirmed that the alternator was spinning, and the acc belt looked fine, but there did seem to be a loud roar coming from vicinity of the alternator (kind of like when the cooling fan is engaged.) I also noticed that the trip meter and clock had been reset, based on elapsed time right around the time I had started the engine to air down the water toys.

I decided to chance it and drive it home (with no a/c, radio, or additional electrical draw). I did buy an extra battery at AutoZone in case I ran the battery down, but luckily did not need it. Made it home, with an eagle eye on the voltage. By the time we got home, it was oscillating between 11.7 and 11.8 v.

I put the AC battery charger on it and let it charge overnight. This morning, I took some voltage readings at the battery:

• Battery disconnected: 12.91 v
• Battery connected, aux light circuit disconnected: 12.89 v
• Battery connected, aux light circuit disconnected: 12.89 v
• Engine running at "fast idle" (1800 rpm, because battery was disconnected: 12.23 v

Based on this, I'm pretty sure my parts store alternator has crapped out... all signs seen to point to that. But, I am concerned about the coincidence of using the 12v air pump, and possibility that something else might be damaged. I am being paranoid?

Also, I will note that over the past few weeks, at idle the voltage would sometime drop under 13 v, sometimes as low as 12.5 or 12.6 volts. I have not had a chance to actually get under the car yet and take voltage readings from the alternator... hopefully this evening.

I still have my original alternator, so at this point I am planning to replace the brushes and put the original back in.

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[94SRUNNER]

What were the circumstances that you replaced your original alternator? Maybe I missed it above...

 

[MissouriLC]

What were the circumstances that you replaced your original alternator? Maybe I missed it above...

No worries! I started running a ScanGauge in my truck when we took a road trip in November, and in early December I started noticing some low voltage symptoms: headlights would dim at idle and get brighter as revs increased. ScanGauge was showing a max of 13.3 to 13.5 v at start up and when driving. At idle, voltage would drop as low as 12.3 to 12.5 v. However, the battery light never came on at that time.

 

[MissouriLC]

Wrestled the dead alternator out last night, and opened up the original for a brush replacement. I should be getting the brush kit from the dealer here shortly. As expected, the inside of the original alternator is quite dirty. What's the best way to clean this? Can I use electrical contact cleaner to wash it down? Thanks!

 

[94SRUNNER]

Yes. I'd use cleaner specifically designed for electrical components. CRC makes some I believe.

 

[MissouriLC]

Gah! Frustrated... and confused!

Maybe I am overcomplicating this... maybe not.

I reinstalled my cleaned up, original alternator, with new Toyota brushes, last night. This is the alternator I pulled out in December with 242K miles on the clock. Fired her up, and checked the ScanGauge while the idle reset. At fast idle (1600 RPM), she was showing 14.1 to 14.3 v on the ScanGauge. As she warmed up and the idle reset, idle voltage dropped to 13.7 to 13.9 v, with only the DRL on (no blower, etc.) Great! Everything seemed pretty normal.

Before I buttoned everything up, I wanted to perform a long-overdue power steering flush and bleed. I did this tonight. When I went to perform the final bleed, with the engine running, I started her up, and the ScanGauge initially showed only 11.9 to 12.1 v. WTF! As I was bleeding the power steering, with my head in the cockpit, I kept an eye on the ScanGauge. The voltage climbed to 12.6 to 12.7, but it would fluctuate wildly. From 12.7, it would jump to 13.3, then fall to 12.2, then recover to 12.7 over the course of a few seconds. Battery light stayed OFF the whole time, indicating that the alternator was delivering voltage.

When I finished the bleeding, I hooked up my multimeter to the battery to get a better measurement. Here's what I measured:

• Battery connected, car off: 12.56 v
• Engine running, idle, no acc: 13.12 v
• Engine running, idle, high beams on, blower on high: 12.41 v oops
• Engine running, 2000 RPM, no acc: 13.43 v
• Engine running, 2000 RPM, high beams on, blower on high: 13.41 v

There was no voltage fluctuations on the mulitmeter as I was seeing on the ScanGauge; everything was steady to within a tenth of a volt or less.

So, I'm pleased that at 2000 RPM, there is very little voltage drop with accessories. But, the overall voltage seems really low. Or is it?

These are the kinds of figures I was seeing back in December. However, tonight, I was not seeing any light dimming as was experiencing in December.

Is it simple as the voltage regulator on my old alternator is failing, and I do indeed need a new alternator? Or could it be something else? I'm not sure what else to investigate. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[highkick05]

I replaced my Alternator when it went with the OEM Denso unit. No problems at all since. I have noticed some of the rubber covers that are supposed to cover the alternator power / ground wires are missing though, think they fell off when it got changed. Might find something to cover them, don't like the idea of corrosion setting in around those exposed wires.

I would be testing the Battery directly, and do appropriate Alternator tests while doing it. Volts its delivering to the battery and parasitic drain test.

I have no idea about those reman units, I stay away from cheaper stuff because I've been burnt many times before. But can understand that sometimes these things can be difficult to do. Alternator is an essential bit of gear, without it working effeciently all the power supplied to everything suffers. As I found with a lot of stuff. My D light in my instrument panel did not even operate before the alternator died and was replaced. Everything works like magic in the car now. Like its been given a new lease on life with a new Alternator & new Super Charge Gold Plus batt.

 

[FxFormat]

I've never had luck with rebuilding kits, when my alternator goes, i just buy a new one and pop it in there. The time and frustration i waste to try and rebuild it wasn't worth it for me. I'd just buy a new one at this point.

 

[MissouriLC]

Sorted it out with a new alternator; the battery tested out, and no parasitic drains indicated.

On Thursday last week, I was about to pull the trigger on a Denso 210-0565 from densoproducts.com. It was totaling about $175 with UPS ground shipping from California. On a lark, I decided to call my local Toyota parts counter for a quote on a Toyota p/n 27060-50260 84. They wanted only $191 overnighted from Kansas City. So, I bought it, picked it up Friday, and got it installed.

Before I put it in, I thought I would share some pics and some differences from the O'Reilly's Ultima brand reman that failed on me. I wish I had gotten pics of the Ultima before I returned it to O'Reilly's.

Here's the top of the case, and you can see the charging lug and sticker. Remanufactured in the USA, as indicated. This looks identical to the Denso 210-0565, based on photos of the Denso. Compared to the Ultima, the plastic collar on the charging lug is identical to what was on the original factor alternator, and different to what was on the Ultima. The factory plastic cover piece did not clip on to the Ultima correctly.

Also, you can see that the coil windings are not painted. On the Ultima alternator, the coils were painted orange.

Here you can see the correct outer heat shield. The Ultima did not have this, and the studs to which it mounts were too short to allow it to be mounted.

Here is the rear cover, which is a new piece. Note that it does not have "ND" Nippondenso logo that the original would have had. The Ultima was a Denso core, and it had the original rear cover, which was painted gray. It did not fit as tightly to the case as the this one.

 

[highkick05]

Yeah , man $191 ($261 AUD) for an alternator. The OEM Denso was $700 and that was wholesale price for mechanic. They retail for about $200 more.

Makes me wonder what the hell some you guys are putting in your cars

 

[MissouriLC]

The new one has this gray rubber boot on top of the brush holder. The Ultima did not have this, nor did the original Toyota.

It's hard to see in the photo below, but it also has the correct orange foam gasket under the brush holder. The Ultima also omitted this part.

You can also see the voltage regulator/rectifier assy., which is new and is the correct Denso part. The Ultima used a 3rd party rectifier with a different style heat sink and made of a cream colored plastic. Similar, but not identical, to the one pictured in this thread.

I also noticed that the pulley on the Toyota Denso reman was "stiffer" than that on the Ultima. Very smooth, but heavier to turn. Sitting on its pulley on the bench, if when I spun the case, it would make maybe 4 to 5 full rotations, whereas the Ultima would make 8 or 9 full rotations. I guess this is something to do with the bearings?

Anyway, I got it replaced in 1 hour, 45 minutes flat. Voltages now look good, and very stable. At cold idle, on a fully charged battery, I was showing 13.73 v measured with a multimeter at the battery. As the car warmed up, voltage dropped to 13.62, and was rock solid whether at idle with no load, or at 2000 rpm with high beams, blower on high, radio on, and all auxiliary lights on.

While I know others have had good luck with the Ultima alternators, and while they are certainly Denso cores, there is no way, at this point, that I would put anything other than a Toyota/Denso remanufactured alternator. Now, hopefully it lasts!