I'm Starting To Think That Watter Wetter Causes Residue?

[turbocruiser]

I'm Starting To Think That Water Wetter Causes Residue?

Hi folks, well the title says it, I'm starting to think that Redline Water Wetter causes residue in the cooling system. The last time I flush and filled (done every 8k to 10k) I added RWW to my cooling system along with Toyota Red and distilled water. After about 4k miles I noticed some residue, not sludge or sediment, but a residue only on the top interior of the overflow tank . This was the first time I used RWW and also the first time I noticed residue. Now at almost 7.5k there is more residue but still no sludge or sediment anywhere. The only thing different from the same routine I've relied on forever is the introduction of RWW.

I know that statistically that sample size is super small but that's why I'm asking about it here. I researched the hell out of that stuff and really thought it was wonderful, and I still do, but I was not expecting to see this. Any thoughts? I'm wondering whether the silicate or something in the stuff is steaming inside of the overflow tank and leaving the residue? I'm also wondering whether it is acceptable to mix silicates with a coolant (Toyota Red) that is silicate free? Again, just askin for any thoughts, thanks.

Edit: Ohh, forgot, my temps are perfectly typical at 80 to 90 degrees celsius with all but the fastest hardest runs where we never exceed 98 even on a summer day as measured by my aftermarket temp gauge.

 

[mooker82]

I put some in my 97 80 back during the summer when I did the coolant flush. Everything looks good so far. I see no residue or sludge starting. I have only put 750 miles on it since the flush though since I drive my Bronco daily around town.

 

[turbocruiser]

I put some in my 97 80 back during the summer when I did the coolant flush. Everything looks good so far. I see no residue or sludge starting. I have only put 750 miles on it since the flush though since I drive my Bronco daily around town.

Yea, mine was fine for the first four thousand, then I saw the residue. I'm starting to think that if it is anything above 50 tomorrow here, I'm gonna flush and fill again.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I have 13 months and 10K on 1 gal red and 12oz of WW using RO water in an alm rad. I checked the rad because I keep the overflow tank dry and it looks clear and clean.

Have you always used Toyota red?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Hmm, any other input to this? I was going to use RWW for the first time on the 93 as I'm finishing it up Sunday and will flush and fill. Got two bottles sitting on the floor next to the remaing parts, so any input would be timely.

DougM

 

[IdahoDoug]

So Phil, you've essentially made it a closed system, eh? How do you account for thermal expansion - add a dry expansion chamber?

DougM

 

[Gumby]

Does it state catagorically that it is compatable with all types of coolant?

Even so, I would be suspicious if it was designed for used with silicate lubricants.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

So Phil, you've essentially made it a closed system, eh? How do you account for thermal expansion - add a dry expansion chamber?

DougM

I’m not sure I have an answer but once you achieved thermal expansion once there would be no reason for fluid to go into the overflow under normal operation,eh?
I never have fluid in the overflow bottle of any of my junk unless there is an overheating issue or maybe it’s evaporating from the ambient heat in AZ?

 

[RavenTai]

I added some water wetter when I did my coolant 2 years / 45 thousand miles ago (Toyota red, distilled water) I have some minor typical claylike deposits in the rad, had these same deposits before when I bought the vehicle, I recently used my hydrometer to lower the fluid level in the rad and had a look, from what I can tell no change, just a thin coating that reminds me of primer in both look and thickness, tubes are still clear

I recently got some more Toyota red in preparation for a coolant system service, have not decided on weather or not to use WW again. From what I have been reading the benefit when used with coolant (as apposed to straight water & WW for warm weather use) is not that much, is that small gain worth it? dono. But so far I have not seen that it hurts. Robbie was saying in the other coolant thread that WW is silicates, would like to find out more about this.

I’m not sure I have an answer but once you achieved thermal expansion once there would be no reason for fluid to go into the overflow under normal operation,eh?
I never have fluid in the overflow bottle of any of my junk unless there is an overheating issue or maybe it’s evaporating from the ambient heat in AZ?

coolant is suppose to flow back and forth between the radiator and overflow at all times, not just once, if your overflow is empty the cooling system will suck air every time it cools down, fill your radiator then fill the overflow to the cold line or a little higher (engien cold) and maintain the level in the overflow never let the overflow empty.

 

[LX_TREME]

2 1/2 gallons Crystal Geyser drinking water, 2 bottles RWW and 1 gal Toyota red

"Silicone Silicate" is obviously missing from the ingredient listing for Toyota red.

D-

I also like silicates in the coolant, It absorbs more heat, Lx extreme uses water weter by Redline. Well it is mostly silicates to prevent micro boiling on the surface of the cylinder wall. later robbie

For the past 9 years since bought the rig brand new back in Sept /97 until now ' 06 no blown head gasket, no sludge, etc...and one more thing every 2 years drove the LX back and forth CA-NYC then NYC-CA 6000 miles.

PS: Flush it out once year you'll be good

 

[turbocruiser]

I have 13 months and 10K on 1 gal red and 12oz of WW using RO water in an alm rad. I checked the rad because I keep the overflow tank dry and it looks clear and clean.

Have you always used Toyota red?

Hey Phil, yea I've always used Toyota Red and distilled water. I do not think you would see this residue in the rad cause it clings to the innner top. It has not produced any sludge or sediment so the only way to see it is on transparent things like the overflow tank. It really is like something that saturates the steam in the tank and then deposits itself at the highest points and then drips down.

 

[turbocruiser]

I recently got some more Toyota red in preparation for a coolant system service, have not decided on weather or not to use WW again. From what I have been reading the benefit when used with coolant (as apposed to straight water & WW for warm weather use) is not that much, is that small gain worth it? dono. But so far I have not seen that it hurts. Robbie was saying in the other coolant thread that WW is silicates, would like to find out more about this.

I have also heard that the benefit with coolant is less than the benefit with water alone but there is supposed to be benefits in the forms of more even / more efficient transfer of heat, prevention of micro boiling, prevention of hot or cold spots, etc. FWIW, I observed zero difference in temperature before and after with my coolant temperature gauge. I really wanna track this down - the thought of more even/more efficient heat transfer is irresistable but anything at all that will dirty the system is something to avoid like the plague.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

coolant is suppose to flow back and forth between the radiator and overflow at all times, not just once, if your overflow is empty the cooling system will suck air every time it cools down, fill your radiator then fill the overflow to the cold line or a little higher (engien cold) and maintain the level in the overflow never let the overflow empty.

Thanks for bringing this up.
Not trying to hijack the thread but can someone help me understand why sucking air is a bad thing?

 

[turbocruiser]

For the past 9 years since bought the rig brand new back in Sept /97 until now ' 06 no blown head gasket, no sludge, etc...and one more thing every 2 years drove the LX back and forth CA-NYC then NYC-CA 6000 miles.

PS: Flush it out once year you'll be good

Careful with "spring water" it can have lots of minerals in it. I think you should stick to distilled water. HTH

 

[CodyRx7]

Anything magnesium in the LC/LX?

I just had an issue with my ATV which is a 2005 Kawasaki KFX400. The 03/04 models had an aluminum clutch cover. The 05/06 models switched to a magnesium clutch cover.

Someone on an ATV forum pointed out that they found corrosion, and what looked like hair gel in the water passage after removing their cover.

Then everyone on the forum started checking. EVERYONE with an 05/06, no matter if brand new or 100 hours on it had the corrosion and gel in the passage. It was due to the magnesium cover and the coolant not being compatible with magnesium.

 

[alaskacruiser]

Some on the BITOG forum report residue from RWW, as well. My own experience: RWW + Toyo Red Coolant quickly darkened the formerly clean Toyo Red coolant, and significant residue was present on flush less than 1 year later. Never had the problem when I did not use RWW. So my experience jibes with some of those on BITOG. If you flush every year, I don't think it will cause a problem, but I'd stay away from it.

 

[tarbe]

I was going to use RL water wetter on my '97 after my first flush. I did some research (including over at BITOG) and decided against it.

My conclusion - it is best used only with water, not with water and EG coolant.

I stopped short of trying to determine the chemistry of the combo - didn't feel I needed to go that far with it. There seemed to me to be enough data to suggest it was not the way to go in a street application running 50:50.

I just flush with distilled water and re-fill once a year.

 

[turbocruiser]

Okay, now i AM thinking that the RWW causes residue! First phase of flush and fill - empty block and rad - everything came out clean, no sludge no sediment and the same for the fluid that came out the overflow tank. However, a dark red residue in the inside of the OT. Even when I shake it full of water it does not produce much particles of waste (it produces some but not much) and neither does the residue remove itself. I'm perplexed and vexed.

Anyway today will be thorough flush and fill day. I'm even considering some cooling system flush. I have a bottle of BG's cooling system flush I've never used it before on the cruiser but I'm wondering whether I should??? Any thoughts?

 

[turbocruiser]

Update: Flushed the system today. After the first dump, I filled with distilled and BG cooling system flush, drove thirty minutes past operating temperature, waited an hour to cool, dumped everything from everywhere again and then started the flushing. Flushed foward and backward from everything - first rad and block with just the petcock and the blockdrain open, then rad with all hoses off, then heater cores front and back, then combos, you get the idea. Even after the BG treatment things came out surprisingly clean. BUT the overflow tank is incredible; it has a thick red oily residue on it that is tough as tacks. I dont think any of the cooling system flush got in the OT because I did not really wait for complete cool cycles before dumping the cleaner. I had to take glass beads like the ones people put in bamboo vases and pour them into the OT with hot water and soap and shake the snot out of it to scour the surfaces clean in there. Took me thirty minutes just shaking that thing to get the inside reasonably clean Then it took ten minutes worth of rinsing and shaking!!! So now I'm really thinking the residue came from the RWW. I've never seen this stuff before and I hope to never see it again. The inside of the rad and the hoses and stuff looks fine so I'm still super perplexed, is it possible this residue ONLY occurs in the OT and not in the engine or rad??? Thanks.

 

[Rich]

Thanks for bringing this up.
Not trying to hijack the thread but can someone help me understand why sucking air is a bad thing?

It's bad because air in the system can accelerate corrosion.

The whole point of the overflow bottle is it provides a mechanism to allow air to be purged. What expands out is a mixture of air and coolant. What gets pulled back in, provided proper level is maintained in overflow bottle, is only coolant.