timbercruiser said:
there is no vent line on my dizz i did have a bit of mud in there but on too much. I think that the vent is a 2f motor thing not a 135F like i had
ih8mud, uh8mud, WE HATE MUD!!!
- Thread starter AMMO
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there is no vent line on my dizz i did have a bit of mud in there but on too much. I think that the vent is a 2f motor thing not a 135F like i had
- Thread starter
- #22
Moose,Big_Moose said:Sorry to here the troubles, almost went on the trip - but knew MJT would be closed.
First - Mud just sucks
Regarding the cooling issues - first, did any of you experience any tranny overheating? If not then your overheating was not really from the engine working in the mud / trying to get through / out. If you have a lot of mud built-up into the radiator, this could cause some of the overheating issues, but should of subsided while cruising on the freeway. When hosing out the radiator cooling fins, and minimal mud comes out, then it is probably time for a new rad. You really shouldn't of built up to much mud in the rad, unless you burried your axles or flew into the mud too fast, etc.
Next I would suggest that you inspect the top of the radiator for the dreaded sludge, and if you find some - replace with a new radiator from CDan [his dogs need to be fed for their winter coats], along with a new fan clutch, since you are at this point in the radiator replacement. A new thermostat couldn't hurt either.
Second, they close lockwood / miller h**p trail at the first sign of snow! You were close enough to run the trails to the north (cherry - can't remember the exact name, etc) of miller - other side of the paved road, or to the east - Rowher flats. I wouldn't be suprised if our club, Los Angeles County Cruisers runs either rowher or cherry trails this weekend to play in the snow! Cherry trail is easy, but it is down hill in the snow, and the fun is getting back up the hill!!
When powerwashing, wrap the distributor in plastic and clean the engine bay except the immediate area around the distributor, and you should be good to go
I might be up for a snow run this weekend, especially if I can find some rims! Anyone know where to get 16x10 w/3.5 / 4.0 backspacing? I just had the Truxus tires removed / replaced with the AT's for mileage on trips during the holidays.
Joe
This all makes sense BUT>>>
My 80 has a brand new out the box rad... No sludge... Twin Electric 12" fans... no fan clutch issues, T-Stat...Well could 4 t-sats all go at the same time. We all ran the trails all day w/ no issues until we hit the mud. Now mind you Gorman mud is not any ordinary mud my friend. Anyone who has wheeled this area before can tell you this. For one if your truck was white, it ain't no more even after a hose down, this mud STAINS.... Witch leads me to this... I THINK we may have all made pottery in our rad's... Yup clay rad's is now what we got, cool mud met hot rad and turned in to pottery...
Just a thought. .
Matt
And by the way we were fine on the flats on the way home, but hills caused the temp to rise
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2002
- Messages
- 425
AMMO,
With this "New" radiator - how many rows? how many fins per inch? Maybe this radiator is too small for the ouput of the engine.
Using "electric fans" for radiator cooling on 4x4 rigs is generally - my opinion only - is adequate at best. Know I have some experience with cooling issues, i.e. 454V8 in my '55, etc. Generally, the electrics do cool the enignes, but when under load [engine generates the greatest amount of heat] these fans cannot cool the engine well.
Apparently, this is what was happening on the way home, as you climbed the hills around Gorman, Santa Clarita, Valencia on the freeway - engine under load / increased heat, which the clogged radiator couldn't handle. Like I mentioned if the mud build up wasn't that bad, then only the compromised radiator core would be the culprit. The thermostat is generally not the problem, especially with all four of your cruisers.
Still trying to figure out / imagine you getting the radiators completely caked / packed with mud to make pottery!
Joe
With this "New" radiator - how many rows? how many fins per inch? Maybe this radiator is too small for the ouput of the engine.
Using "electric fans" for radiator cooling on 4x4 rigs is generally - my opinion only - is adequate at best. Know I have some experience with cooling issues, i.e. 454V8 in my '55, etc. Generally, the electrics do cool the enignes, but when under load [engine generates the greatest amount of heat] these fans cannot cool the engine well.
Apparently, this is what was happening on the way home, as you climbed the hills around Gorman, Santa Clarita, Valencia on the freeway - engine under load / increased heat, which the clogged radiator couldn't handle. Like I mentioned if the mud build up wasn't that bad, then only the compromised radiator core would be the culprit. The thermostat is generally not the problem, especially with all four of your cruisers.
Still trying to figure out / imagine you getting the radiators completely caked / packed with mud to make pottery!
Joe
- Thread starter
- #24
Moose,
I have been running this set up for about a month or so now with out any issues... As a matter of fact, I’ve found my engine to run better, cooler and have more HP. I really can't see how you would think a stock fan would be better. ALL Race trucks, cars ECT run electric fans, besides the shroud not being "designed" for the car or truck I really can't see a down fall. But to each there own. As I stated before the only real issues were after the mud bath. I just got done with round one of "OPERATION Clean up". There was allot of clay packed in my rad, and with it running for about and hour or so the temp stayed normal after a good lashing with the hose.
-Matt
-On a side note, electric fans have a few pluses over stock: One is you can switch them off, as in the case of a water crossing. Two, if you do over heat you can kill the engine but keep the fans running to help cool the engine. Again, everyone has there own experiences... I'm just glad to be running cool again.
I have been running this set up for about a month or so now with out any issues... As a matter of fact, I’ve found my engine to run better, cooler and have more HP. I really can't see how you would think a stock fan would be better. ALL Race trucks, cars ECT run electric fans, besides the shroud not being "designed" for the car or truck I really can't see a down fall. But to each there own. As I stated before the only real issues were after the mud bath. I just got done with round one of "OPERATION Clean up". There was allot of clay packed in my rad, and with it running for about and hour or so the temp stayed normal after a good lashing with the hose.
-Matt
-On a side note, electric fans have a few pluses over stock: One is you can switch them off, as in the case of a water crossing. Two, if you do over heat you can kill the engine but keep the fans running to help cool the engine. Again, everyone has there own experiences... I'm just glad to be running cool again.
Belt driven fan gets a lot more power from engine than electric fans do from their electric motors. Thus a belt driven fan can move more air than an electric fan. Where you need the most fan cooling is when operating at heavy loads and slower speeds. I.E. carrying a lot of weight or trailering while going up steep hills.
These are conditions that race vehicles do not encounter. Race vehicles are typically going fast on level ground and getting the majority of their cooling from the wind velocity through the radiator.
Whether or not you need the extra cooling offered by an engine driven fan depends on how the vehicle is used.
These are conditions that race vehicles do not encounter. Race vehicles are typically going fast on level ground and getting the majority of their cooling from the wind velocity through the radiator.
Whether or not you need the extra cooling offered by an engine driven fan depends on how the vehicle is used.
I know what you mean about the mud. I gave a second washing to my rig this morning and seem like I removed even more mud. Luckly my fan clutch assembly works good and I don't have to replace it.
Ammo- Bifff, you guys got to let me know the next time ya'all are headed up to Gorman.
I was suppose to go up there this past weekend also, sounds like its good I did not.
Sucks that Miller was closed.
Ammo, say your 80 at SurfnTurf looks cool man.
I was suppose to go up there this past weekend also, sounds like its good I did not.
Sucks that Miller was closed.
Ammo, say your 80 at SurfnTurf looks cool man.
Skim - check the Trail Rides section- it's this coming weekend.
Matt - post pictures!
Matt - post pictures!
Skim said:
Skim,
We are heading up to Gorman this Sunday Dec. 12th....hopefully Ammo and Biff will join us again. check out the events and trail thread under 'Gorman Dec. 12th'
-Sam-
- Thread starter
- #30
Posted by Rich:
"These are conditions that race vehicles do not encounter. Race vehicles are typically going fast on level ground and getting the majority of their cooling from the wind velocity through the radiator."
I would have to agree with this statement if we were talking about ANYTHING other the off-road... But since this is an OFFROAD board I have to disagree. The trucks I speak of are often 500hp plus+++ called trophy tucks... And I have YET to see a rad placed in the front of one of these trucks or truggies with mid engine or rear engine. There for the rad are placed behind the truck often behind the back window and what do they use to cool these trucks... No not wind flow, electric fans. But since this is not Dersertranger.com, and it's a 4WD board let's look at some rock crawlers. Once again often the rad is not in the front of the vehicle and air flow is not forced through by speed or belt driven fans. And certainly you would have to agree that these are under "HEAVY LOAD". Last point, you mentioned about towing and towing up hills. You would have to say that unless you have a power stroke or a duramax you're slowing down climbing a hill. And your pulling weight, unless your down shifting, killing OD, what ever your revving the engine high, using HP to get to the top of that hill, I'm not sure I would then want my belt driven fans to kick in and take HP from my towing. Why not be running electrics from the start, and keep them running, thus not heating up, and not stealing HP.
I'm not saying one way is the only way but I do not understand your reasoning.
-Ammo
"These are conditions that race vehicles do not encounter. Race vehicles are typically going fast on level ground and getting the majority of their cooling from the wind velocity through the radiator."
I would have to agree with this statement if we were talking about ANYTHING other the off-road... But since this is an OFFROAD board I have to disagree. The trucks I speak of are often 500hp plus+++ called trophy tucks... And I have YET to see a rad placed in the front of one of these trucks or truggies with mid engine or rear engine. There for the rad are placed behind the truck often behind the back window and what do they use to cool these trucks... No not wind flow, electric fans. But since this is not Dersertranger.com, and it's a 4WD board let's look at some rock crawlers. Once again often the rad is not in the front of the vehicle and air flow is not forced through by speed or belt driven fans. And certainly you would have to agree that these are under "HEAVY LOAD". Last point, you mentioned about towing and towing up hills. You would have to say that unless you have a power stroke or a duramax you're slowing down climbing a hill. And your pulling weight, unless your down shifting, killing OD, what ever your revving the engine high, using HP to get to the top of that hill, I'm not sure I would then want my belt driven fans to kick in and take HP from my towing. Why not be running electrics from the start, and keep them running, thus not heating up, and not stealing HP.
I'm not saying one way is the only way but I do not understand your reasoning.
-Ammo
***** trying to avoid the fan debate *******
the other issue that you might have encountered is the lack of od on the hill climbs. I know tis is hwo it works with the tryanny in my 92 but not positive on your truck. when you are in normal gears the fluid flow to the front increases by quite a bit. this hot fluid goes into the radiator side panel for cooling. if you have a sepereate tranny cooler it comes after it gets a pass at the rad. when you are hill climbing you are ususually pushing the tranny pretty hard and therefore putting a lot of hot fluid through a already mud compromised system. I will bet you that is your issue.
The overdrive slows the tranny fluid rate going into the cooler to a lot less so it will have less of an impact on the overall cooling when you stay in od. I would bet you will be fine once you get the rad cleaned up and running properly. but FWIW if you are running hotter try really hard to stay in od. It will help to keep the temps down.
Dave
the other issue that you might have encountered is the lack of od on the hill climbs. I know tis is hwo it works with the tryanny in my 92 but not positive on your truck. when you are in normal gears the fluid flow to the front increases by quite a bit. this hot fluid goes into the radiator side panel for cooling. if you have a sepereate tranny cooler it comes after it gets a pass at the rad. when you are hill climbing you are ususually pushing the tranny pretty hard and therefore putting a lot of hot fluid through a already mud compromised system. I will bet you that is your issue.
The overdrive slows the tranny fluid rate going into the cooler to a lot less so it will have less of an impact on the overall cooling when you stay in od. I would bet you will be fine once you get the rad cleaned up and running properly. but FWIW if you are running hotter try really hard to stay in od. It will help to keep the temps down.
Dave
Ok, firstly, my context for this discussion is 80 series Land Cruisers. I’m not much interested in tube cage rock buggies, and obviously if in such a vehicle the radiator is not mounted in front of the engine it is not going to be at all practical to use a crankshaft belt driven fan and an electric fan is the only practical choice. I don’t see how such vehicles are at all pertinent to discussion regarding the relative max air moving capabilities of electric fans versus crankshaft belt driven fans as would be applicable to an 80 Series Land Cruiser.
With respect to the ultimate max amount of air that can be moved by a fan, one of the limits is going to be determined by the power available to drive the fan. Check how much HP your dual 12” electric fan motors have. It is not going to be anywhere near comparable to the power that a locked clutch crankshaft belt driven fan will utilize.
I would agree, for a 80 Series Land Cruiser, that an electric pusher fan, mounted in front of the radiator (presuming there is room) could be useful to augment the existing factory fan, if, in slow speed, high torque, low rpm situations, there otherwise would not be enough air flow for cooling.
However, you are not likely going to be able to convince me that, under typical “max cooling required conditions”, which for an 80 Series Land Cruiser is most likely to occur on the road, accelerator pushed down to the floor, climbing a long, steep, mountain pass, on a hot day, with a heavy load on board or in trail, that your electric fan is going to move anywhere near as much air as a properly working stock fan. The electric fans do not have the power available in this situation to match a crank belt driven fan. If they did, the motors would be huge as would also be the wiring.
Regarding you presumption about the electric fans not loading down the engine, that is incorrect. The power to drive the fans is being produced by the alternator, which, of course, is being belt driven by the engine. As soon as an electric fan turns on, the alternator generates the current being consumed by the fans, and the engine is being loaded down to power the alternator. The battery does not enter the equation unless the fan motor draws more current than the alternator can supply.
Under the situation I have described, on road, extended steep climb, pedal nearly to the floor, heavy load, reasonable road speed, etc, I fully expect that an electric fan will place less load on the engine, only due to the fact that the electric fan is doing less work because it is moving less air while providing less cooling.
With respect to the ultimate max amount of air that can be moved by a fan, one of the limits is going to be determined by the power available to drive the fan. Check how much HP your dual 12” electric fan motors have. It is not going to be anywhere near comparable to the power that a locked clutch crankshaft belt driven fan will utilize.
I would agree, for a 80 Series Land Cruiser, that an electric pusher fan, mounted in front of the radiator (presuming there is room) could be useful to augment the existing factory fan, if, in slow speed, high torque, low rpm situations, there otherwise would not be enough air flow for cooling.
However, you are not likely going to be able to convince me that, under typical “max cooling required conditions”, which for an 80 Series Land Cruiser is most likely to occur on the road, accelerator pushed down to the floor, climbing a long, steep, mountain pass, on a hot day, with a heavy load on board or in trail, that your electric fan is going to move anywhere near as much air as a properly working stock fan. The electric fans do not have the power available in this situation to match a crank belt driven fan. If they did, the motors would be huge as would also be the wiring.
Regarding you presumption about the electric fans not loading down the engine, that is incorrect. The power to drive the fans is being produced by the alternator, which, of course, is being belt driven by the engine. As soon as an electric fan turns on, the alternator generates the current being consumed by the fans, and the engine is being loaded down to power the alternator. The battery does not enter the equation unless the fan motor draws more current than the alternator can supply.
Under the situation I have described, on road, extended steep climb, pedal nearly to the floor, heavy load, reasonable road speed, etc, I fully expect that an electric fan will place less load on the engine, only due to the fact that the electric fan is doing less work because it is moving less air while providing less cooling.
Damn, I got a company Christmas party in Huntington Beach this Saturday night.
Next run I'm going.......So is the 80 I go wheelin with. (you hear that Todd? )
Next run I'm going.......So is the 80 I go wheelin with. (you hear that Todd? )
