I have to prove HDJ81 isn’t a cargo vehicle?

[AdamFire]

So apparently on my export certificate it says under ‘Use of vehicle’ it is listed as CARGO. This has been the case for every Landcruiser I’ve imported besides my 75 series pick up. Never paid the chicken tax.

anyways so my broker said if it’s listed as CARGO the Hdj81 is subject to the 25% tax and customs is processing tax wise solely on what is listed there. The hdj81 also has like a wooden carrier in the back as pictured which is further hurting my case apparently. Also it’s a 91 so it didn’t have the factory 3rd row seats which is apparently a big thing when challenging?

So apparently now I must PROVE that this Hdj81 was designed purposely to carry people and not cargo. I have to prove it wasn’t changed from the factory to be a cargo vehicle. I’ve looked up the vin on toyodiy and it states VAN but apparently that isn’t good enough?

a bit stumped and surprised on this one. A bit laughable I have to prove a car is a car.

 

[gilmorneau]

So apparently on my export certificate it says under ‘Use of vehicle’ it is listed as CARGO. This has been the case for every Landcruiser I’ve imported besides my 75 series pick up. Never paid the chicken tax.

Not sure exactly what you're referring to here, nor what you mean by "This has been the case for every Landcruiser" you've imported. Do you mean they've all been categorized as "cargo" vehicles, but this is the only time anyone's asked for 25% duty? They should have nicked you for it on the pickup, for sure. If they didn't, count yourself lucky. Import duty is based on the declared HTS code. It'll be on your Entry Summary and maybe elsewhere. For a HDJ81, the HTS code should begin with 8703 (I think--double check). If it does, you can show them the definition in the HTS codes online, demonstrate that your car matches the HTS description, and tell them whoever wrote "cargo" on the form was an idiot. The HTS code should be the last word on the subject. OTOH, if the declared HTS code begins with 8704, then the "chicken tax" applies. Did your broker choose the HTS code? Or was that done by the exporter? And who's the nimrod who wrote "cargo"?

Find the code, look it up online, and see if it's correct for your car. If it's wrong, you might be able to convince them to correct it.

anyways so my broker said if it’s listed as CARGO the Hdj81 is subject to the 25% tax and customs is processing tax wise solely on what is listed there. The hdj81 also has like a wooden carrier in the back as pictured which is further hurting my case apparently. Also it’s a 91 so it didn’t have the factory 3rd row seats which is apparently a big thing when challenging?

If the car has rear seats, seat belts, and entry/egress doors for rear seat passengers, there should be no doubt it's a vehicle primarily designed for carrying passengers. I have heard of two-door SUV's (think 1st gen 4runners) that, while they had rear seats, were judged to be cargo-carrying because they had no doors for the rear seat passengers and the rear seat was designed to fold down. BS, but it was Customs' call.

In your car, what's behind the rear seat shouldn't matter--third row seats, storage box, or pixie pavilion. You have four doors, and five seats configured for passengers. What more could they want? If you sort through the HTS definitions online, you should be able to find the code that most accurately describes your vehicle and use that in your argument.

So apparently now I must PROVE that this Hdj81 was designed purposely to carry people and not cargo. I have to prove it wasn’t changed from the factory to be a cargo vehicle. I’ve looked up the vin on toyodiy and it states VAN but apparently that isn’t good enough?

What modifications are they pointing to that suggest to them that the car has been factory modified for cargo carrying? It should be obvious to anyone more evolved than a monkey that the wooden structure in the back of that car is not a factory modification. Toyota do better work than that. If you can get them to believe that the wooden structure is, in fact, a modification done by a previous owner, then they have implicitly admitted that the vehicle has not been modified from it's original configuration, which was passenger carrying. HTS code, and thus duty, is based on the vehicle as originally configured by the manufacturer.

a bit stumped and surprised on this one. A bit laughable I have to prove a car is a car.

Yeah, seems stoopid, but they kind of have you by the short 'n' curlies. This is what happens when bureaucrats get a taste of power over you. Whatever you do, don't be a dick to them. That almost guarantees you lose.

 

[AdamFire]

Not sure exactly what you're referring to here, nor what you mean by "This has been the case for every Landcruiser" you've imported. Do you mean they've all been categorized as "cargo" vehicles, but this is the only time anyone's asked for 25% duty? They should have nicked you for it on the pickup, for sure. If they didn't, count yourself lucky. Import duty is based on the declared HTS code. It'll be on your Entry Summary and maybe elsewhere. For a HDJ81, the HTS code should begin with 8703 (I think--double check). If it does, you can show them the definition in the HTS codes online, demonstrate that your car matches the HTS description, and tell them whoever wrote "cargo" on the form was an idiot. The HTS code should be the last word on the subject. OTOH, if the declared HTS code begins with 8704, then the "chicken tax" applies. Did your broker choose the HTS code? Or was that done by the exporter? And who's the nimrod who wrote "cargo"?

Find the code, look it up online, and see if it's correct for your car. If it's wrong, you might be able to convince them to correct it.



If the car has rear seats, seat belts, and entry/egress doors for rear seat passengers, there should be no doubt it's a vehicle primarily designed for carrying passengers. I have heard of two-door SUV's (think 1st gen 4runners) that, while they had rear seats, were judged to be cargo-carrying because they had no doors for the rear seat passengers and the rear seat was designed to fold down. BS, but it was Customs' call.

In your car, what's behind the rear seat shouldn't matter--third row seats, storage box, or pixie pavilion. You have four doors, and five seats configured for passengers. What more could they want? If you sort through the HTS definitions online, you should be able to find the code that most accurately describes your vehicle and use that in your argument.



What modifications are they pointing to that suggest to them that the car has been factory modified for cargo carrying? It should be obvious to anyone more evolved than a monkey that the wooden structure in the back of that car is not a factory modification. Toyota do better work than that. If you can get them to believe that the wooden structure is, in fact, a modification done by a previous owner, then they have implicitly admitted that the vehicle has not been modified from it's original configuration, which was passenger carrying. HTS code, and thus duty, is based on the vehicle as originally configured by the manufacturer.



Yeah, seems stoopid, but they kind of have you by the short 'n' curlies. This is what happens when bureaucrats get a taste of power over you. Whatever you do, don't be a dick to them. That almost guarantees you lose.

Yes I looked back at all the vehicles i've imported from Japan which have been 3 HJ61's. On the export certificate under Use of Vehicle and they've written 'CARGO' every time. This has never been an issue until now? As for my pick up that one they just felt bad for me, I had brought my very first Landcruiser (really ravaged ute) back from Australia with me and the broker (a different company) jacked up everything so bad telling me the vehicle was ready when it wasn't not declaring it properly blah blah blah - the port manager himself came down to release the vehicle to me it was that much of a disaster.

This isn't customs that I am talking to it is my broker that i've used multiple times. She is basing this information on the storage unit in the back and the fact that it is listed as 'CARGO' under Use of Vehicle. She has told me that if it says CARGO then the port folks are changing everything now to the 25% value 8704. Because they listed 'CARGO' she is unsure of if anything on the vehicle has been changed, chassis etc. She told me I need to bring forth a case proving that this 80 series Landcruiser was mistakenly labeled on the export certificate - she mentioned possible changes to the frame or body and presenting VIN information. Once I do that she will try to convince customs she told me.

I spoke to the folks in Japan and they have told me that the government issued the Original Export Certificate in Japanese and that one can't be changed.


The rig isn't due until March 28th so I have (some) time to try to sort this out. A lot of this just isn't making sense, I replied as politely as possible stating all the above reasons you did and included the documents and pictures etc. No word back yet but sounds like she is hesitant of declaring it 8703 due to the 'CARGO' thing.

EDIT: Spoke with broker today - she believes the chassis must have been modified to be a cargo vehicle. Due to the 'CARGO' none sense and is asking for proof that it hasn't?

I

 

[gilmorneau]

She may not want to hear it, but your Customs Broker's logic is bad. The source of the fallacy is her assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise. A person making a negative claim (in this case you) cannot prove nonexistence (of the supposed modifications). I wouldn't try and school her on it, though. lol...

Anyway, if her criteria for deciding that your vehicle is a "cargo" vehicle is the storage unit in the back and the word "cargo" on the export form, then those are the two points you need to rebut.

The wooden box in the back is quite obviously homemade--not a factory modification, and doesn't change the manufacturer's original configuration in any meaningful way. No different than if you threw a suitcase back there. Putting a suitcase in the back of a car doesn't reconfigure the car to be a "cargo" vehicle. HTS Code Section XVII, chapter 87: Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of persons. The "principally designed" bit is the key. While obviously you could throw something besides people in ANY car, cars are principally designed for passengers. The existence of doors, seats, seatbelts, window and climate controls for rear seat passengers, and more, make this plain. Vehicles that are primarily designed for the transport of goods (i.e. cargo) have things like flatbeds, pickup beds, big empty cubes (box vans), and the like on them to accommodate cargo. They don't have plush interiors to make the cargo comfortable.

Asking you to prove that the chassis has not been modified is, as noted above, logically impossible. Maybe the springs have been replaced--you don't know. I'd argue it doesn't make it a cargo vehicle anyway.

What's really got her worked up, the guys at Customs in a tizzy, and you screwed, is where somebody wrote "cargo" on the export form. If it weren't for that, nobody would care about any of the other stuff. So you need to find a way to calm their nerves about it. Did you work with someone in Japan? Can they explain why they wrote "cargo"? It could just be some Japanese regulation that's irrelevant to US Customs law. If you could get someone in Japan to verify that, you might be off the hook. Or you could show your broker all the other cars' export forms, which all said "cargo", and explain to her that this has never been a problem before. You run the risk of them saying that now you owe the "chicken tax" on all those vehicles, too. Might want to keep that as a last resort. lol...

 

[MUDZLLA]

Shippers use "cargo" for everything because that's what it is to them. They have cargo insurance that pays out by the pound. It may pay about half your vehicles value if the ship goes down. If it's a vehicle with a declared value they would have to pay you the declared value. AFAIK.

 

[mattimooseprime]

The only thing I could think of is that the seller in Japan had the rig registered under a business, which could make their taxes on registration less expensive.


For example, cruisers with fender flares are registered as "wide" vehicles so they cost more in registration. Mine were removed to make it a regular body.

Unfortunately what it says on the registration is what they will consider it when it arrives. I battled this with a Hilux. I could not grasp how my land cruiser was passenger and yet my Hilux was a utility vehicle when the Hilux can barely pull it's own weight Lol.