hub centric vs. lug centric wheels

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bryan89

bryan89

Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Threads
79
Messages
809
Location
Charleston, SC
hey guys,
i have a hella bad vibration at highway speeds in my 4runner. starts at about 55mph and shakes and shimmies its way up to 70mph.

all my drive line rubbers are new from when i rebuilt the engine/trans. so i think my wheels just need a good balancing.

someone was telling me that i need to make sure the shop uses the right adapter on the balance machine to ensure a good balance. but i dont know whether the wheels are hub centric or lug centric.
i dont know anything about the difference, so i searched online. from what i have read online i think they are lug centric, as the wheel has a lot of play in it when you put it up on the hub.

additionally, the wheels on my truck are not the ones equipped with the truck when it left the factory. I am told they are OEM wheels, but from a earlier sr5 truck. so this may add to the confusion. idk

does anyone know anything about this and can maybe confirm my suspicion? i just dont want to pay 60 bucks to have these 50% worn tires balanced without success because some tweaker didnt know whether to use an adapter on the wheel balance machine or not.
TIA,
Bryan
100_0278_small.webp
 
I have always understood that the wheels in these earlier trucks were lug-centric. I'm not sure if that is still true.

I don't believe those are OEM wheels, I've never seem them on a stock vehicle from the factory. The "SR5" wheels prior to IFS in '86 were the chrome "D-hole" wheels they also put on FJ60s, I ran a set on my truck for a couple of years right after I did my SAS, these wheels came off my '84 SR5 "Limited" pickup which was the donor for the front axle:

Sas_Done6.jpg
 
i see what you mean about how mine are triangle holes and yours are D shaped.

so, the fj60 had the d shape as well huh? i thought that is where these came from. but i guess not.

guess i might just have to chance it.
 
The older trucks, I wanna say up until the Tacoma, were all lug centric wheels. Now, I don't balance a whole lot of OEM lug centric wheels since newer Toyota has hub centric but when I do get a set of old OEM wheels or aftermarket wheels that are lug centric I use the same cone adapters regardless of the mounting style. The only time I have a problem is if they're some cheap ass pieces of s***. I have yet to have a set of OEM wheels give me fits except the newer Tundra/Sequoia 20's. Which are an animal unto their self.
 
Lug centric will have slightly beveled holes for the lugs to seat in and will use tapered lugs. Hub centric will have a flat recess around the holes and will use a shouldered lug nut. lug centric use lugs to center the wheel, hub centric use a very tight clearance around the center hub to center the wheels, lugs basically just hold the wheel on.

I am 99.9% sure that the wheel you show are lug centric. Toyota only used hub centric wheels in later years. I think the first to have them would be the tacomas or 3rd gen runners. As far as I know I have never seen a set of steel wheels that were hub centric, almost exclusive to aluminum wheels. And most all aftermarket wheels are lug centric.
 
jynx said:
Lug centric will have slightly beveled holes for the lugs to seat in and will use tapered lugs. Hub centric will have a flat recess around the holes and will use a shouldered lug nut. lug centric use lugs to center the wheel, hub centric use a very tight clearance around the center hub to center the wheels, lugs basically just hold the wheel on.

I am 99.9% sure that the wheel you show are lug centric. Toyota only used hub centric wheels in later years. I think the first to have them would be the tacomas or 3rd gen runners. As far as I know I have never seen a set of steel wheels that were hub centric, almost exclusive to aluminum wheels. And most all aftermarket wheels are lug centric.
Click to expand...

Actually all of Toyota's current steel wheels are hub centric. They do have a beveled edge around the hole to center the studs but they're still hub centric.

To the OP anyone who really knows they're way around a wheel balancer should, theoretically, be able to balance your wheels. There's other variations to take into account such as the rim run out, tire size and quality, and tire issues like radial force variation
 
thanks guys.
im pretty sure they are lug centric too. especially with all of the descriptions you guys have added.
These wheels are what came on the truck when i bought it and I just want to have them trued up because the vibration is bad. But i dont want to spend a ton of money because these tires, although poor quality, still have some life left and i cant see just scrapping them and starting over with fresh, high quality rubber.
I will do that when the time comes. this is just to get by for now.
so it may not be perfect but its got to be better than it is.

but to Richmondo's point, yeah i agree this should be a simple fix IF i could find a competent tire balancer.

I called the local firestone center by my house and the guy on the phone had no idea what a lug centric wheel was. Then he went and asked the guy who does the alignment and he said they didnt think they had the adapter for the tire machine anyway.

So this is the crap i am dealing with. "professionals" who dont even know their equipment well enough to tell me if they can even attempt to balance a lug centric wheel. so now i have to find someone else.

Is it just me, or do you guys feel smarter than the people working on your cars these days? maybe its just my area, but aside for one or two locations, everyone turning wrenches here is a moron.
 
2 shops down. on to the third.
 
bryan89 said:
I called the local firestone center by my house and the guy on the phone had no idea what a lug centric wheel was. Then he went and asked the guy who does the alignment and he said they didnt think they had the adapter for the tire machine anyway.

So this is the crap i am dealing with. "professionals" who dont even know their equipment well enough to tell me if they can even attempt to balance a lug centric wheel. so now i have to find someone else.

Is it just me, or do you guys feel smarter than the people working on your cars these days? maybe its just my area, but aside for one or two locations, everyone turning wrenches here is a moron.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call anyone working at Firestone a "professional." Most of those guys are either Joe Blow off the street, couldn't hack it at a good independent shop or dealership, or struggled at tech school.

Knowing what I know now, and if I didn't turn wrenches myself, I'd be looking for some old timer with a balancer or I'd head to the dealesrhip (not just saying that because I happen to work for one either). Although, if you go the dealership route I'd try my damnedest to have at least a certified tech if not a expert or master working on my s***.

It's too bad you're in SC or I'd give it shot for you
 
Richmondo said:
Actually all of Toyota's current steel wheels are hub centric. They do have a beveled edge around the hole to center the studs but they're still hub centric.
Click to expand...

Well I learned something today.

I hate you are having trouble, I took a set of 16" Tacoma HC wheels to my local shop and the guy was really nice and even called me back and said the tires, which were old, weren't gonna balance and let me pick them up, no charge. Took my 17" tundras in and they balanced them nicely.

If you can I would look for a non-affiliated shop. The one I use has been around longer than me, I think.

good luck
 
You can't find a competent shop to balance those wheels/tires?The cone adapter to the hub is stupid easy...

Your wheels are lug centric. I have had my wheels balanced countless times and never once have I asked them to be balanced using a hub centric adapter. It's not as if you're driving a Porsche...

These wheels are hub centric. I thought this was a good example:

hub1-1.jpg


These are LUG centric:

front_install.jpg


Funny but when I searched for this most of the pics I found were Toyota related.
 
msahr,
lol, i know its not a porsche. im not expecting to make champagne out of beer here. i am just trying to do the most cost effective thing and solve this the best way.

It costs the same 45-60 bucks to get a 4 wheel balance around here no matter what kind of wheel you have. so i figure if there is a possibility that my balance issue is because someone previously balanced it with the wrong method, then why not eliminate that variable from the equation for the same money? see if i get it balanced with the lug centric method, and it still wobbles then i know i have a bent rim or really crappy tires. (i already know my u joints and drive line rubbers are good)

generally, i think a hub centric balance may be okay enough to get by with, but why not do it right if it costs the same? just got to find someone with 2.5 brain cells to do it.


but to that point, i think i found a shop that can do it. i am going to try and have them do it this weekend. that is if i dont get roped into more crap by :princess:
 
Road force

Bryan,

My suggestion would be to find a tire shop that is equipped with a road force balancer,this machine will balance your tires and diagnose any tire/wheel related issue (bent wheel,seperation i.e).this machine will simulate load to your tire as if it was being driven on the road a lot of euro cars use this to balancer for there wheel and tire set up,it may cost a bit more money but it will tell you what needs to be fixed.i suggest talk to the shop owner or manager and make some sort of deal with him that you might buy a set of tires from him if the issue is tire related just my 2 pennies.hope this helps.

John:cool:
 
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