Howell TBI in a Chevy 350 Cruiser?

[FJ40_owner]

My Chevy 350 has has some CA smog stuff removed by the PO. In lieu of purchasing and installing the old style smog stuff back on it has been suggested I have TBI installed.

A quick Google check indicates they retail for around $1300. I figure another 8 hours of skilled labor to install. ($800??) So 2 grand or so for TBI.

No junk yard removal for me.

A very rough estimate of the time and money involved in re smogging my 1977 FJ40 with the old stuff would probably run around a grand or more as I would not be doing the work.

Do the numbers seem real and is the Howell product a viable option for... wait I am going to write the word, first time in my life, here it comes..





Komi-fornia.

Thanks in advance.
BigJim

 

[FJ40_owner]

Thanks

The picture is of my CARB sticker.

I doubt the Howell system is CA smog legal. So you can waste the money on it and be the same situation you are in now

The TBI will have it's own smog related equipment that you will need. Along with having to add cat converters.

If you take your cruiser to a ref, he will tell you exactly what smog related equipment you are missing. Then you can go pick up the stuff new or used as you desire.

Per my usual, CA smog laws are not THAT difficult to follow. And what you have run into is usual fair for people complaining about them: "Let's remove the required smog equipment thinking we're going to gain 100hp then bitch when it fails a visual check"

 

[FJ40_owner]

CARB sticker is what your smog tech will look at for doing a visual. If the CARB sticker is checked for an item, you need to have it.

Having a CARB sticker doesn't equate to a license to change the smog equipment once you have it. (Not saying that is what you did but I've seen/heard of people doing that)

What have you been told you are missing? Care to share what was removed since that CARB sticker was put on?

From that sticker, we see the following are checked:

• PCV - PCV system... breather type thing from valve cover to carb
• TAC - no idea
• AIS- no idea
• EVP - I believe this would be charcoal canister and related parts.
• EGR - EGR system. Should be something on the back of the intake... think it goes to carb.
• SPK

I'm sure mud has a CA smog ref who can further translate the sticker. Couldn't find anything with a quick google search.

My rig has no smog pump, exhaust rails or egr. The PO took them off and convinced me to buy based on year model, ie no smog required based on the year... then we elected Arnold and the rest is history.

From what I know
F/c= Fed or CA
M/A Manual / Automatic
Site = inspected at
B/A Before 1984
NOX = Emission
PCV = PCV
TAC = Air cleaner heater
AIS = Air injector
EVP = Charcoal can
FR = Fuel restrictor
OC=cat
EGR
CI = Farb or FI

I guess I will continue to verify if TBI or old smog is the better solution. I am not oposed to either I prefer it to be done right for the least cost.

 

[ranger]

TAC is thermostatic air cleaner, AIS is Air injection system.

 

[fyresq]

I doubt the Howell system is CA smog legal. So you can waste the money on it and be the same situation you are in now

The TBI will have it's own smog related equipment that you will need. Along with having to add cat converters.

If you take your cruiser to a ref, he will tell you exactly what smog related equipment you are missing. Then you can go pick up the stuff new or used as you desire.

Per my usual, CA smog laws are not THAT difficult to follow. And what you have run into is usual fair for people complaining about them: "Let's remove the required smog equipment thinking we're going to gain 100hp then bitch when it fails a visual check"

Howell kits CAN be 50 state smog legal as long as you tell them that's what you want. Specifically you need to run a cat, VSS, O2 sensor, and vapor canister IIRC. They also send you a plate that you mount in your engine compartment that gives the tech the info and smog legal agreement. And yes that includes Komifornia...

 

[jodtan]

Howell

These guys are good, experienced dealing with them for my 2f Tbi conversion. This system is the easiest to efi & smogged older carb engines. my .02 cents....

 

[Downey]

As of 12:10PM on Thursday afternoon, 3/5/09 Howell Engineering has two exemptions on a fuel injection system, both are for American Motors vehicles. I sure would like to see his under hood decal/plate with E.O. number for California?????

 

[FJ40_owner]

As of 12:10PM on Thursday afternoon, 3/5/09 Howell Engineering has two exemptions on a fuel injection system, both are for American Motors vehicles. I sure would like to see his under hood decal/plate with E.O. number for California?????

What is the underhood decal and EO?

The BAR stuff is in a photo taken and in this post

Still looking for the best solution.

Thanks all.

BigJim

 

[fyresq]

I see what you guys are saying.......that Howell only offers direct 50 state legal kits for Jeeps. But I was just on the phone with them.....as of 3/3/09 ordering my stuff from them and was asking smog legal questions about my own rig and got some great advise. I'll be running a newer TBI motor with VSS, TCC, EGR, O2 sensor, vapor canister etc. and doubt I'll have any problem passing smog. So my first question is:

Which one of you had a TBI in a cruiser fail inspection and for what reason?

2nd. Why would a ref get upset that you put cleaner burning fuel injection with a cat on a rig?????

3rd, and related

If he's had an older model 350 pass ref, why wouldn't a newer model motor pass?????

What I know about ref stations is that generally it requires a motor available in that year vehicle you have or newer and must run the smog equipment for that motor that was available. Now some get picky and want the same make of motor as the vehicle. All of this makes me damn proud that I'm not a Californian. If California won't pass a newer, more fuel efficient, less polutant spewing motor....... Of course that would be typical of california

 

[Downey]

Big Jim, the BAR sticker shown in this post has nothing to do with an aftermarket product/conversion kit being smog legal. That is merely a sticker the BAR attaches to your firewall if the engine you installed was smog compliant the day you went in for inspection. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought the question was if there is a smog legal fuel injection conversion kit available from Howell. The answer would be yes and no!! No, Howell does not sell a conversion kit that has an E.O. exemption number. Yes, if all the parts Howell sold you were normal factory "replacement parts", then no exemption is even necessary.

 

[FJ40_owner]

Question 1:
I failed mine for two reasons: I couldn't get the idle down and he didn't like me Ting off the TBI water temp sensor port for my gauge temp sensor.

Question 2:
It isn't the cleaner running they will have an issue with. They WILL have an issue with the guy that just throws on a TBI unit on an old carb engine. They want EVERYTHING from the donor: smog pump, air injection, EGR, cats, heads, etc. When I did mine, the ref looked at block and head numbers

Question 3:
The previous owner of the rig had a smog legal conversion and then ripped stuff off that made it no longer smog legal. And now the current owner is having to find out how to fix it. As mentioned, if he wants to keep the tag he has showing, his only option is to replace all the missing equipment. Otherwise, the only other option is to restart an engine swap.

As for the issues with CA smog legal swap system, 90% of the people having issues are trying to short cut the rules: leaving out smog related equipment, leaving out engine controlled equipment, using NON-smog compliant aftermarket parts, etc... whether they are short cutting for "more power", "ran out of money", or whatever. CA doesn't have a problem with people swapping in COMPLETE engines from another vehicle... just the hacks doing it half assed.

I won't say whether I agree with CA's rules or not... but the fact of the matter is they are WELL documented so there are very few gray areas. Just people for whatever reason think the rules don't apply to them. And thus, they make the process harder for those of us who will take the time to do it correctly.

OK my 77 FJ40 with Chevy 350 has been in "the shop" now since the day after this post. They claim to be a smog repair station so I asked them to repair my smog system.

The guy just called me and informed me I am missing the following parts.

I am missing Injector rails, Thermostatic air cleaner and riser and whatever goes with the EGR valve-s.

I recently purchased $1000 worth of new cast iron exhaust manifolds and piping. So perhaps I will need a new exhaust manifold as well.

I was willing to pay someone to help me make this right. They just told me they cannot locate any parts and to come get the vehicle.

I am not a mechanic and do not live near a car yard so I am not going to attempt to undertake this.

My options are to sell the vehicle to someone out of state or drive it to another smog repair place and wait a month to find if making my car legal is possible.

Oh and I did not remove any of the smog stuff. Bob Cash in Goletta did.

Thanks for your valuable input.

Sign me frustrated.

 

[fyresq]

I was just reading my paperwork from Howell and it actually says that the harness will replace OEM equipment and is smog legal as long as the smog equipment is retained. It had a little blurb about if you're in Cali, you may have to take it to a ref station to get it approved.

Sorry to hear your woes, have you called any junkyards to get that stuff? My suggestion would be to take it to a mechanic who knows what he is doing. Finding smog equipment really isn't that difficult.

Have you thought about changng to a complete TBI motor and sell your current motor? You can source TBI's from a junkyard or get one new and there are several writeups on using the factory harness or buying your own from Howell, Painless, etc.

TBI's are a dime a dozen cause it takes quite a bit of work to get much more horsepower than stock out of them so no muscle, hot, or rat rod car builders want them. They have decent torque though and run great on inclines so they're ideal for us. I have recieved two for free so far......one with only 8000 miles on it