Howdy & carb question

[Stexag]

Hey guys, first post here from Texas. Recently acquired my first FJ40 - Rule #1:

I asked the kids to step out and take a picture of it - this is what I got. They said it was cold and wet. Our blood is thin because we live so far south so I give them a little slack.

My question is about carburetors and induction. This 10/77 unit has a 2F engine with exhaust headers and an Offy Dual Port 4bbl manifold. On top of that is a Holley 4bbl carburetor. The idle is set incredibly high and any attempt to slow it down results in flooding out at idle. This is my first LC, but I have had experience with Chevrolet stove bolts and I expected the performance to be similar; so I'm really missing the low speed lugging and tractor-like idling with this setup.

I see that parts retailers all offer the Weber option, which seems doable wit a 4-2 carb adapter. Is anything salvageable or should I start the search for a factory intake/carb now?

Thanks for you advice. There aren't any other FJs here locally to compare to or scavenge parts from, so if I ask some silly follow-on questions please understand.

 

[snaggletto]

Nice looking truck, welcome! Most advice will be to go back to stock, and I would agree. Shop around in the classifieds here at mud for stock intake manifold and carb, new gaskets and carb rebuild kit (Hygrade kit I found at Rock auto). Also search YouTube for PinHeads carb rebuild videos. Of course you need to figure out what is missing in terms of choke cable and throttle linkage. This will all take time.
For the short term I would work on improving what you have, tuning or maybe rebuild kit. If you can fix what you have, then run it.

 

[Downey]

Holleys use to be notorious for blown power valves, in which case you get a "water flowing over the top of the dam" scenario, fuel flow never shuts off and engine will not idle down- - -could be this??? I also guess you are wildly over carbureted??? I'm thinking a Holley 350 2 barrel adapted to your 4 barrel manifold, BUT only if you fully baffle the carb float bowl for off road use. This would include a float bowl baffle tube (horizontal) and a float bowl chimney (vertical). I have these baffle kits should you decide to go this route.

 

[TheHardWay]

First of all, welcome to Mud. Looks like PO sunk a goodly chunk of change into you rig. My '77 came with a Holley. I've debated going back to original setup over the two years I've had it, but the worst thing I can say about the Holley is the black splatter from the tailpipe when choking at startup. I think it would be well worth the time and effort to learn how that carb is supposed to be setup and get it working properly before giving up on it.

 

[Tancruiser]

Ditch the Holly for a stock setup .

 

[4dutchess]

Welcome! Im not much of a mechanic and Im not sure this helps but I had a 71' 40. F-1 motor rebuilt and the stock carb ran rich for 15yrs. I finally put a weber carb on it and it made the motor rings go bad. I was told it had the wrong pressure for years and now with the right pressure rings quit holding?? I had the stock carb rebuilt with the motor but after was told I needed a new one. Was told rebuilds dont fix all. Such Madness!!

 

[Pin_Head]

You have a lot invested in the Holley, so I would spend some time trying to figure out what is wrong with it first. It would be a lot of money and effort to replace the OEM carb and I suspect that you won't be climbing a lot of steep hills in south Texas although I know there are a few in the hill country.

 

[honk]

I'd dump the Holley and manifold for a non-USA stock setup since you're already desmogged by the current setup. It's the way to the Stovebolt Chevy characteristics you mentioned.

IMO it's that low RPM pulling power that makes the truck. Mine is desmogged and although I normally set the idle at 600 rpm it'll idle fine down to 400 rpm (probably even lower) when warmed up and pull strong from there right up through the torque band.

With it's H41 1st gear, lockers, and the engine we think of it as our 'escape module' for the times we are snowed in or things are otherwise messed up like they can do. The truck has never failed to get through whatever conditions come and it's mostly because there's no need to spin wheels revving up. For a gas engine it can chug along almost like a diesel but it won't lose power at elevations above it's tune or when pulling uphill.

I bought the non US carb from SOR more than ten years ago. It was $150. with a core sent in. They get a lot more now, but I thought it was a lot back then so maybe the newer prices are really equivalent, I don't know. I do know that I'd want another one if this one somehow becomes unrebuildable, and there's a few guys in here who can provide the same as mine for a lot less than SOR.

 

[DougAustinTx]

Your truck looks great. That 4 bbl is probably way too much carburetor for your 2F. Holleys are great carbs, but they need to be matched to their situation. A 350 cfm is about what we need on 2F's. However, it would be a fairly involved job to get the stock/OEM style carb working since it looks like all the linkage for a stock type carb is gone and you now have a cable for the throttle, plus your fuel lines will need to be reworked. Flooding at an idle with a Holley could simply be a matter of your vacuum being lower than the setting of the power valve. Holley power valves open to allow the passage of fuel any time the vacuum is lower than the number stamped on the power valve. Most power valves are 6.5 inches of mercury, so unless you have a massive vacuum leak, Downey is probably correct that the valve is blown. It's an easy fix for about $5.

 

[Stexag]

Thank you everyone for the quick and helpful replies. I appreciate the compliments on the front half of my rig, although I can take no credit thus far outside of some negotiating and writing a check.

I knew opinions would vary based on using the search function before I posted! Your replies, however, are helpful. I did a little research this afternoon and the carb code is 80457, that means 600cfm after-market. According to Doug in Austin, that's about 2x the carb I need; which is what I suspected. I would love to go back stock; but I know (as stated) that is going to take time because I'm missing everything: manifolds, linkages, and plumbing. I will endeavor to work a little harder and tune this for the time being - since none of you said to put it in the trash IMMEDIATELY.

It's developed a habit to leaving me stranded on occasion that I was blaming completely on flooding, but this afternoon I have diagnosed that I have intermittent spark problem as well. I really love this truck so far - but under the hood is a bit of a mixed bag. Aftermarket distributor and carb, the offy manifold, I think the PO was getting set up to go to the strip. I really want to work my way back to a stock tuning as I go.

 

[Stexag]

Sorry to bump but I don't see an edit button on my post.

If I start looking for parts to go stock over time - are all 2F manifolds/components created equal or is there a range of years I should be looking for. Vehicle manufacture date is 10/77.

 

[honk]

Not at all complaining about your having posted twice in short order but in order to help you in future efforts within this site:
You should be seeing 'edit' at the very lowest left corner of each post, along with 'delete' and 'report next to your userid and the timestamp of the post. So far as I know the edit ability remains available for as long as the post remains. Click the desired action and proceed to edit as desired.

 

[Pin_Head]

It may be a little too much carb, but you shouldn't be having idling problems. Check for intake manifold vacuum leaks too. Turn the idle down until it can barely run and then spray water around the gasket sealing surfaces and see if the idle speed changes.

 

[sggoat]

It may be a little too much carb, but you shouldn't be having idling problems. Check for intake manifold vacuum leaks too. Turn the idle down until it can barely run and then spray water around the gasket sealing surfaces and see if the idle speed changes.

Water?

 

[Pin_Head]

Yes, water. It also sounds like it might be rich, so water might be better.

 

[Stexag]

I'm going to just use this as my newbie question thread instead of starting a new one.

My D.U.I. performance distributor is giving me a little trouble on and off. I did some research on troubleshooting and like any high output component it needs plenty voltage to work; as in it needs the full 12v to the distributor. I checked with my voltage meter and the battery at rest is 12.3v & drops to 11.6 cranking. The wire to the distributor at rest is 11.3 with the key on and predictably it drops lower, 9.9 coming up to 10.2v when cranking. Under those conditions I don't get any fire.

My question - is there a resistor anywhere in our starter circuits? or is the drop at rest just line loss in the wiring harness?

 

[Downey]

Can't help with electronics, so getting back to subject; after reading all of above I believe consensus is (1) you are over carbureted, and (2) most of your choices/remedies are going to be $$$$. Sooooo, here's my opinion; path of least resistance and $$ is to get a new or remanufactured Holley 350 2 barrel, get an inexpensive 2 barrel adapter (example on ebay #151846831762), use the existing freebie intake manifold you already have, fully baffle the float bowl of the Holley 350 (example on ebay #261935392147). This to me is the best non-smog solution, will be killer in off road terrain, extremely simple carburetor design.