how will towing effect longevity

[Gohawks63]

See

http://www.hitches4less.com/trailer-hitch-classes.html

I think a 6500lb rating would make it a "Class III/IV" hitch. (More than class III 5klb, less than full Class IV 10klb.)

That's the way the Reese hitch I installed is listed, and it is rated a 6000lb hitch.

Appreciate the link, but I'm looking for an official rating on the factory hitch. I know it's at least a Class III, but 1,500lbs that could be towed with a Class IV hitch is significant. I know the rig can handle it, I'm just wondering if the hitch is equipped to handle it.

 

[hoser]

should i use an equalization hitch or not after some research there is still confusion i did not use one i just used a anti-sway control but i could not adjust the anti-sway control to a position i would have liked to because the automatic height control would revert to low, but if i backed it off it stayed in normal, most hitch places told me to use equalisation hitch, lexus as far as i know and i asking them, receiving vague answers said you do not need equalisation,

Is an "equalization hitch" the same as a "weight distributing hitch?"

From Lexus website:
"The factory-installed hitch receiver on the LX 470 should only be used with weight-carrying hitch hardware, not weight-distributing hitch hardware. Do not exceed any weight ratings and follow all instructions and cautions from your trailer-hitch manufacturer and vehicle Owner's Manual. The maximum amount you can tow depends on the total weight of any cargo, occupants and available equipment."

 

[Gohawks63]

I figure I'd call Toyota and see if they could tell me.

After they ran my VIN, they said, "you have a drop ball hitch".

I told them I knew that, but both the Class III and Class IV hitches are "drop ball". The class IV hitch has additional mounting points to the frame and is a bit beefier. Since a Class III hitch is only rated to 5,000 lbs you couldn't really leverage all of the LCs towing capacity.

It took them a while to track it down, but he came back and told me that they're showing that it is indeed a class IV setup.

That's good to know.

For point of clarification, this is the under bumper mounted version. I say this only because some LX models come with the hitch that is integrated in the rear bumper, and that is in fact a Class III setup.

 

[Tinkerer]

Appreciate the link, but I'm looking for an official rating on the factory hitch. I know it's at least a Class III, but 1,500lbs that could be towed with a Class IV hitch is significant. I know the rig can handle it, I'm just wondering if the hitch is equipped to handle it.

If the vehicle is rated to 6500lb, I would assume that the hitch is only good for 6500lb. " Class III+", if you like.

I had a GM that was rated by the product brochure to tow 6000lb, but the factory hitch was stamped "5000lb max". That was General Misery, not Toyota, but the point is: I would not count on an OEM giving you a beefier hitch than the vehicle rating. It is not something that affects vehicle quality or durability per se, so as long as the hitch meets the min towing capacity of the vehicle then the OEM has provided well enough, at minimum cost to them. They have no incentive to provide more, in this case.

Keep in mind also: If it became known that a factory hitch exceeded the vehicle tow rating, some folks would overload the vehicle towing capacity - which could drive warranty costs and perhaps even lead to liability expense to the OEM.

On the other hand, if the hitch is not at least 6500lb, then Toyota might incur costs in warranty and liability from that too.

So I'd guess it is 6500lb, if the designers did not err.

Good luck finding accurate info on the factory hitch rating. Someone in Toyota knows, but you may not be able to get the info.

 

[dsmith]

towing

i was told that the tow package that comes with the lx 470 mine 2004 was rated for 5000lbs only but you can put on an after market hitch which i did, but it still seems that some still use an equalization hitch, or a weight distribution hitch, which is not what lexus says you should do, hitch people tell me that lexus do not understand what a weight distribution does for it does not in any way interfere with the suspension, its all clear as mud

david

 

[Gohawks63]

If the vehicle is rated to 6500lb, I would assume that the hitch is only good for 6500lb. " Class III+", if you like.

I had a GM that was rated by the product brochure to tow 6000lb, but the factory hitch was stamped "5000lb max". That was General Misery, not Toyota, but the point is: I would not count on an OEM giving you a beefier hitch than the vehicle rating. It is not something that affects vehicle quality or durability per se, so as long as the hitch meets the min towing capacity of the vehicle then the OEM has provided well enough, at minimum cost to them. They have no incentive to provide more, in this case.

Keep in mind also: If it became known that a factory hitch exceeded the vehicle tow rating, some folks would overload the vehicle towing capacity - which could drive warranty costs and perhaps even lead to liability expense to the OEM.

On the other hand, if the hitch is not at least 6500lb, then Toyota might incur costs in warranty and liability from that too.

So I'd guess it is 6500lb, if the designers did not err.

Good luck finding accurate info on the factory hitch rating. Someone in Toyota knows, but you may not be able to get the info.

The thing is that there's no such thing as a class III+. Look at the link you provided me earlier, it's either a III or a IV.

So while the class IV hitch can handle up to 10,000 lbs, it's still up to the owner not to exceed the tow capabilities of the vehicle.

Good luck finding accurate info on the factory hitch rating. Someone in Toyota knows, but you may not be able to get the info.

I'm assuming you read my following post where Toyota told me it was a class IV.

 

[Gohawks63]

i was told that the tow package that comes with the lx 470 mine 2004 was rated for 5000lbs only but you can put on an after market hitch which i did, but it still seems that some still use an equalization hitch, or a weight distribution hitch, which is not what lexus says you should do, hitch people tell me that lexus do not understand what a weight distribution does for it does not in any way interfere with the suspension, its all clear as mud

david

Do you have the hitch that comes out of the bumper? THose are rated at 5,000 lbs. THe under bumper version is rated beyond that.

 

[Tinkerer]

The thing is that there's no such thing as a class III+. Look at the link you provided me earlier, it's either a III or a IV.

So while the class IV hitch can handle up to 10,000 lbs, it's still up to the owner not to exceed the tow capabilities of the vehicle.



I'm assuming you read my following post where Toyota told me it was a class IV.

Correct, there is no such thing as "Class III+". That's why I put it in quotes and followed with "if you like".

(Writing...so prone to error in transmission...I should use more icons I guess. )

Who at Toyota said it is a Class IV ? Most of the time when I contact front-line Customer Service people, they don't know much, and they also unfortunately have the tendency to make stuff up where they don't know. (Like many dealer employees - see my rant in greynolds thread...)

Common sense: I really doubt Toyota would put a 10000lb rated hitch on if the vehicle is only rated to tow 6500lb. There is no benefit to Toyota or the customer. There is, however a cost penalty to Toyota and a weight penalty (with all that entails) to the customer. The added weight might also reduce the fuel economy and performance figures - OEMs are always trying to figure out how to reduce vehicle overall weight.

Naw, it's prolly just a 6500lb hitch. Nothing to sneeze at, mind you - the 6000lb rated Reese I put on my LX is quite beefy, and probably underrated anyway.

But as far as towing more than 6500lb with a 5500lb vehicle: I wouldn't even want to exceed the 6500 limit, because doing so could result in a load exceeding the weight of the tow vehicle - a dicy-sounding situation. Could lead to "the tail wagging the dog", something to be avoided at highway speeds, eh?

 

[100 TD]

Just for comparison info........Rated tow capacity of a petrol or diesel LC100 in Australia is 750kg or 1653 lbs without trailer brakes and 3500 kg or 7716 lbs with trailer brakes. However some state laws say you can not tow more than the GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) of the vehicle which is 3260 kg or 7187lbs

 

[SINCITY100]

The 100`s factory under-bumper hitch is described by Toyota in both the towing guide and the accessory book as a class IV receiver.

However...even though it (the hitch) may be rated to handle a heavier load than than the Toyota model it is installed on, it is still the owner`s responsibilty to stay within the Mfgs maximum rating for the actual vehicle .

I guess the various class ratings must be established for ANY hitch that it is sold for the main purpose of towing, and is a Government mandated regulation for safety on U.S. roads, the problem is that the ratings are based on specific loads (1500 lbs.. 3500 lbs..etc).. so if a particular vehicle`s own design falls somewhere in-between the "classes"...The factory hitch has to meet the next higher "class" to pass regulation.

The best advice is to go ahead and tow right up to the MAXIMUM weight listed in the owners manual or sales brochure, and dont be tempted by the vehicles hitch class rating.

 

[Gohawks63]

Correct, there is no such thing as "Class III+". That's why I put it in quotes and followed with "if you like".

(Writing...so prone to error in transmission...I should use more icons I guess. )

Who at Toyota said it is a Class IV ? Most of the time when I contact front-line Customer Service people, they don't know much, and they also unfortunately have the tendency to make stuff up where they don't know. (Like many dealer employees - see my rant in greynolds thread...)

Common sense: I really doubt Toyota would put a 10000lb rated hitch on if the vehicle is only rated to tow 6500lb. There is no benefit to Toyota or the customer. There is, however a cost penalty to Toyota and a weight penalty (with all that entails) to the customer. The added weight might also reduce the fuel economy and performance figures - OEMs are always trying to figure out how to reduce vehicle overall weight.

Naw, it's prolly just a 6500lb hitch. Nothing to sneeze at, mind you - the 6000lb rated Reese I put on my LX is quite beefy, and probably underrated anyway.

But as far as towing more than 6500lb with a 5500lb vehicle: I wouldn't even want to exceed the 6500 limit, because doing so could result in a load exceeding the weight of the tow vehicle - a dicy-sounding situation. Could lead to "the tail wagging the dog", something to be avoided at highway speeds, eh?

I don't mean to be argumentative, just debating a point.

You say you know there's no such thing as a class III+, but then say it's a 6,500lb hitch. There's no such thing. If there was, it would be a class III+.

Class III has a maximum tow rating of 5,000lbs. A class IV has a maximum of 10,000lbs.

As for who told me. THe initial representative is the one who told me it was a "drop ball hitch". He was just reading off of an options sheet. When I pressed him further, he consulted with a "specialist", and came back to tell me it was a class IV. As I said, I had to press him further to get the answer.

See SINCITY's response below. on the rational for installing a hitch that exceeds the vehicles towing capability.

The 100`s factory under-bumper hitch is described by Toyota in both the towing guide and the accessory book as a class IV receiver.

However...even though it (the hitch) may be rated to handle a heavier load than than the Toyota model it is installed on, it is still the owner`s responsibilty to stay within the Mfgs maximum rating for the actual vehicle .

I guess the various class ratings must be established for ANY hitch that it is sold for the main purpose of towing, and is a Government mandated regulation for safety on U.S. roads, the problem is that the ratings are based on specific loads (1500 lbs.. 3500 lbs..etc).. so if a particular vehicle`s own design falls somewhere in-between the "classes"...The factory hitch has to meet the next higher "class" to pass regulation.

The best advice is to go ahead and tow right up to the MAXIMUM weight listed in the owners manual or sales brochure, and dont be tempted by the vehicles hitch class rating.

 

[Tinkerer]

I don't mean to be argumentative, just debating a point.

Agreed, healthy debate. (Unlike that other thread and the flaming lawyer...)

You say you know there's no such thing as a class III+, but then say it's a 6,500lb hitch. There's no such thing. If there was, it would be a class III+.

The "Class III+" thing was a bit of dry humor on my part. My Reese hitch, rated at 6000lb, is presented as a "Class III/IV" hitch. I think they want to highlight that it is "better than Class III minimum requirements", but they cannot say it is Class IV per se, because it isn't really. So, technically, a hitch rated at 6000lb or 6500lb is still just a Class III. It is not a Class IV unless it is rated to handle at least 10000lb.

As for who told me. THe initial representative is the one who told me it was a "drop ball hitch". He was just reading off of an options sheet. When I pressed him further, he consulted with a "specialist", and came back to tell me it was a class IV. As I said, I had to press him further to get the answer.

I dunno, I've been given verbal misinformation often enough by various representatives who didn't know what they were talking about that I take any such with a grain of salt.

Even the documentation available to the end user or the phone rep may contain errors. To know for sure, you would have to see the actual design records, in Toyota Engineering Dept.

Why not just trust the phone rep and the end user documentation on this one? Because (a) it does not make sense that a hitch rated at 10000lbs or more would be factory installed to vehicle rated to only 6500lb, and (b) the potential impact of overloading a 6500lb hitch is serious.

I think everyone pretty much agrees: Stick to the vehicle max tow rating specs of 6500lb and all is well. If you do that, then the question of the exact hitch rating is academic, as long as it is rated to at least 6500lb.

(The hitch is derated anyway: A 6500lb rated hitch will probably tow 10000lb without breaking. Steel is relatively cheap compared to the consequences of breaking a hitch under load, so something like a hitch will be overdesigned/underrated, with a safety factor of probably at least 4 - meaning, it will not break until the load reaches 4 times the rated load. Note: This is just for illustration - I have no idea what the safety factor for your hitch is, so I'm not responsible for you overloading your hitch. )

 

[Gohawks63]

Agreed, healthy debate. (Unlike that other thread and the flaming lawyer...)

...


I think everyone pretty much agrees: Stick to the vehicle max tow rating specs of 6500lb and all is well. If you do that, then the question of the exact hitch rating is academic, as long as it is rated to at least 6500lb.

...

That was my point anyway. I just wanted to find out the limits of the hitch on the vehicle. Even though the vehicle is rated for 6,500lbs tow capacity, I didn't want to exceed the limits of the hitch if it was only a class III setup.

Since it's supposed to be a class IV hitch based on what Toyota said and what Sincity has said he saw in the documentation. I'm safe as long as I don't exceed the limits of the truck.

 

[Gene3x]

Wasn't this suppossed to be about long term towing effects on your vehicle? Is there anyone that has towed with heavy loads over an extended period of time with their 100? Oh and also.... Final Gear Ratio?

 

[hoser]

Gene3x, the final drive ratio on all '03-'06 US market cruisers is 4.1:1

'98-'02 models have a final drive ratio of 4.3:1

 

[spressomon]

Gene3x, the final drive ratio on all '03-'06 US market cruisers is 4.1:1

'98-'02 models have a final drive ratio of 4.3:1

Correct me if I am wrong...the #'s you list above are the rear end ratios...not final drive ratios?

 

[hoser]

I've seen the term "final drive ratio" used both ways, 1) the ratio of the 3rd member (rear end ratio) and 2) the ratio of the highest transmission gear mulitiplied by the third member ratio. Spresso, like you, I prefer the latter definition. Though in this explanation, they call it "Final drive ratio" and "TOTAL final drive ratio"

So,

The Total final, final, drive ratio for the '03-'06 cruiser is 2.936:1 versus the '98-'02 cruiser which is 3.26:1 as mentioned in the A343F vs. A750F thread.

 

[wngrog]

Tow report.

Troopy to Katemcy, 3 hours. Hilly, rolling terrain. About a 5500# load.

3rd gear the entire time and it did fine. 70-75mph but it worked. 7mpg.

On the way back, my 2500# buggy and it got 10 mpg and I ran it in OD.

I would not like to tow much more than I did today. My new trailer is 700# lighter than the one I have now so my new load will be under 3500#

I picked up my lift from Christo today and I have the 863s. That will keep the ass end from drooping down when I tow, even the light load I am going to be towing.

It is surely not my Duramax, but it is great to tow with a Toyota!

 

[hoser]

wngrog, are you saying you towed the troopy there and the buggy back? What's that.... a 1800lb difference? Plus the difference between 3rd and 4th gear? 7mpg sucks but 10mpg isn't too bad.

 

[wngrog]

wngrog, are you saying you towed the troopy there and the buggy back? What's that.... a 1800lb difference? Plus the difference between 3rd and 4th gear? 7mpg sucks but 10mpg isn't too bad.

Yeah. I sold my Duramax when I sold my last Cruiser buggy. The new buggy that I picked up at the Roundup is nly 2500#.

I ordered an aluminum trailer for the buggy and when I tow I plan on putting the stock 18's back on the car.

I think 10 mpg is fine. My Duramax only got 13 or so and I never drove it unless I was towing with it.

Now with the Cruiser I will be towing my buggy to Moab, wheeling the buggy and the tow rig