How to take out Differential Pinion Nut? (2 Viewers)

[BnvS]

I am working on repairing a rear differential pinion seal... and got stuck on removing the Differential Pinion Nut...It has a notch on it.. How do I take this out exactly? just hit it with a impact gun.. I do have a 1/2 in impact gun...Kobalt... do I just hit it and that should take out the nut?

BTW I already kind damaged the nut a little bit by trying to take the notch off via a thin flat head... I dont think its in bad enough shape..

Anyways let me know how to open this nut please..

 

[Campfire]

Not trying to be negative here,,,,,,,,,,, BUT........ Before you take that nut off, do you know what what a crush sleeve is?
Do you know what back lash is? And how to set it?
And once that nut is off, which also needs to be marked so it goes right back to exactly it is, you also need to mark the flange and the splines to be sure that the flange comes off and goes back on the EXACT same splines.

To answer your question, I ground down a metal punch years ago flat and curved to walk in behind the crimp, and slowly work the crush edge back out.

 

[Malleus]

Those nuts are not reusable. Drive the bent tab out with a punch/small chisel. The manual specifies a very involved procedure (SA-109 through SA-114), because it's written with the assumption that you're rebuilding the differential. This procedure, in full, is not necessarily required to replace the seal.

If you only remove the nut, the backlash should not be affected. If...

The complete answer to your question is in the service manual. If you don't have a copy, there's one in the Resources Forum, 100 series section, you can download for free:

While you're there, if you don't already have them, get the EWD and Wiring Harness Repair manual too.

 

[Malleus]

The "bearing spacer" in the parts diagram above is the "crush sleeve" that @Campfire is referring to in his post. In short, you can tighten the nut TO the spacer without needing to replace it...if you tighten PAST the spacer, you'll have to pull the differential carrier and go through the process of retightening the (new) nut until you achieve the proper preload. In that case, it's only necessary to start at step 8(d), on page SA-109.

You will need an inch-pound torque wrench with a dial; a digital wrench will not work. Not necessarily this one, but one like it:

OTRAMM has a good video on the subject, for the 100 series differential. Check that out.

 

[BnvS]

Not trying to be negative here,,,,,,,,,,, BUT........ Before you take that nut off, do you know what what a crush sleeve is?
Do you know what back lash is? And how to set it?
And once that nut is off, which also needs to be marked so it goes right back to exactly it is, you also need to mark the flange and the splines to be sure that the flange comes off and goes back on the EXACT same splines.

To answer your question, I ground down a metal punch years ago flat and curved to walk in behind the crimp, and slowly work the crush edge back out.

@Campfire to answer your question.. no I dont know exactly what that means.. I would love to read about it, please send links/videos if possible.. BUT at the movement since I am in a bind.. what is the practical way to get the nut off and back on???

In the video below.. the guy took the nut off and put it back on on the same spot.. would that work? or not..

 

[Trunk Monkey]

It's a staked nut, you can try to get some of the punched piece pushed back with a chisel or the like and then yes, an impact. I would not re-use it if you have the choice.

 

[BnvS]

It's a staked nut, you can try to get some of the punched piece pushed back with a chisel or the like and then yes, an impact. I would not re-use it if you have the choice.

hmm @Trunk Monkey if you would not reuse it.. how do I put it back to the same notch on the nut? to keep the same "torque" setting.. ?

in some other Videos they said to count how many turns it takes to take the Nut out and then do the same to put it back in..

 

[Malleus]

The nut is not resuable, except in an emergency, like you're miles away from civilization and need to get back to where you can be towed.

You need to replace the nut, as I indicated in my posts. Then, after it's installed, you stake it in place, so that it can't move.

Counting the turns will work, but you have to be careful to start counting at the same place on both nuts. As I said, you have to be very careful that you are not crushing the sleeve any more than it was when it was previously installed, or you will be affecting the backlash.

LMGTFY:
OTRAMM pinion seal installation
start at 17:00 for pinion seal installation; this is the 80 series differential, but the process is the same for the 100 series - see the manual pages I referenced above.

 

[Campfire]

Sorry, I'm just a grumpy old retired mechanic who's had to deal with lots of apprentices over the years.

Like #Malleus said, don't re-use the nut unless you absolutely have to. The whole point of the spacer/crush sleeve is to torque the pinion shaft properly and set the height of the pinion gear on the ring gear.
If the pinion shaft moves, the gear contact patch will move also on the ring gear and it will cause-
A: noise
B: abnormal wear
C: Pinion gear movement (too loose)

If it's the pinion seal leaking, it's a very common repair. Remove nut, replace seal, torque new nut to same place and you should be fine.
I've re-used the nut a couple of times when parts are on backorder, or the wrong one was shipped.

Good luck.

 

[MechE30]

It’s been said but I will reiterate, when you remove that nut and replace the seal you will have to reset the torque on it. The torque is dependent on the crush sleeve inside the bearing stack up which has already been crushed once. In order to reach torque you will re-crush the crush sleeve (if only slightly) which will pull the pinion gear away from the ring gear. This in turn increases backlash, reduces your pinion running torque, and essentially sets you up for increased wear and noise from your gear set. You’re buying time before a full rebuild. At best.

This is the exact case for why solid pinion spacers are made (doubtful you have one unless this diff was rebuilt by a skilled shop).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

 

[Mauser]

Why is that nut a one time use thing?

Just because the book says so?

 

[Campfire]

Why is that nut a one time use thing?

Just because the book says so?

You have to hammer the collar of it into the keyway of the pinion shaft. That collar is usually rather soft but can crack at one of the edges. If you spend enough time, and that's an "IF", and have the right tool to carefully work the collar out of the keyway, you could re-use it.
Only to find that when you put it back in the "EXACT" same spot, you have to hammer the already cracked portion down into the keyway again.
SNAP!
Now you need a new nut anyway, and have to do a third of the work over again.

Had one model years ago that the pinion seal was like $4, but the pinion nut was $28. Freaking service writer tried to cheap out on the estimate and delete the nut to save $28.
Wrong, they always broke.

 

[Mauser]

You have to hammer the collar of it into the keyway of the pinion shaft. That collar is usually rather soft but can crack at one of the edges. If you spend enough time, and that's an "IF", and have the right tool to carefully work the collar out of the keyway, you could re-use it.
Only to find that when you put it back in the "EXACT" same spot, you have to hammer the already cracked portion down into the keyway again.
SNAP!
Now you need a new nut anyway, and have to do a third of the work over again.

Had one model years ago that the pinion seal was like $4, but the pinion nut was $28. Freaking service writer tried to cheap out on the estimate and delete the nut to save $28.
Wrong, they always broke.

Thank you, that makes sense. I knew the book said to replace, but never understood exactly why.


I've never had one break. I've.removed quite a few over the years and just guess I've been lucky. To bend them out I have a couple of small, round long punches that I tapered one side of. They work every time to open the staked part of the nut up.

 

[Campfire]

Knew one guy that had the seal go out multiple times, he had a long sandy road he drove everyday. He probably changed that rear pinion seal once a year. Always re-used the nut, had a noisy diff, didn't care.
Until that nut broke the collar off, and then the nut back off, then the pinion shifted.........

I wasn't pretty.
He swapped the whole rear axle out with a used one instead of rebuilding the diff.

 

[Malleus]

It’s been said but I will reiterate, when you remove that nut and replace the seal you will have to reset the torque on it. The torque is dependent on the crush sleeve inside the bearing stack up which has already been crushed once. In order to reach torque you will re-crush the crush sleeve (if only slightly) which will pull the pinion gear away from the ring gear. This in turn increases backlash, reduces your pinion running torque, and essentially sets you up for increased wear and noise from your gear set. You’re buying time before a full rebuild. At best.

This is the exact case for why solid pinion spacers are made (doubtful you have one unless this diff was rebuilt by a skilled shop).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Toyota doesn't use solid bearing spacers, unfortunately. The crush sleeves are used because they are cheaper for Toyota, since one size really does fit all.

Without very accurate measurements, solid spacers are impossible to size. They are used on assembly lines because the build tooling measures every component prior to the build and sizes the spacers for the operators. This is difficult to do with the Toyota design and impossible with the differential carrier installed in the axle.

You can install a new nut and the old sleeve, without crushing it - you just have to be really careful. The very large torque value in the service manual is due to the force necessary to crush the sleeve to the required length. It doesn't exist if the sleeve is already to size - the nut merely needs to contact the sleeve face. The nut and sleeve exist solely to position the pinion against the ring. If the pinion is in the correct position, the spacer against it and the nut against that, keeps it there.

 

[Campfire]

Man! All of this made me go dig around in the toolbox.

My custom wedge punch ground for pinch nuts.


And the old flange wrench for holding the flange while torquing the nut.


And all of this did nothing but bring back the smell of 90W on my hands that never seem to fade.
Remember walking in the house back when I was wrenching and the wife took a whiff and asked, "Transmissions today?"