how much stiffer will the ride be after a torsion lift?

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so basically my question was answered

maybe because i'm a chick he thinks i can't handle the truck being a truck, who the eff know....

ride changes a bit - i can deal. i'm more into the truck being taller since i'm super tall

it's already changed with the new tires.
i have stock suspension and by cranking the torsion bars a bit i just wanted to raise the truck so the tire doesn't cram in the wheel well....

more for looks not so much for off roading....

thanks for the info guys!
 
rusty_tlc said:
Can somebody summarize this thread in short words that even an EE can understand?
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Summary:

1.0 Text of summary.
- 1.0.a: Ride quality does not change.
- 1.0.b: Don't jack it up like Nick did.
- 1.0.c: Never paint anything red.
 
OregonLC said:
Back to the OP, because the t-bars are linear, there is no more spring force applied at the static position; you've simply shifted the neutral point. Because the rate at which the spring force increases remains constant the shock/spring relationship remains unchanged and the ride should be unchanged. Suspension geometry, however, may alter the leverage the vehicle has on the spring.

Lastly to the OP, two items to remember: 1) the LC wants to have 3/4" forward rake or it will start pulling under power, and 2) remember to get an alignment after you find the new position you're happy with.
Click to expand...

Someone else who paid attention in their physics class :clap:
 
LCbruiser2000 said:
i have stock suspension and by cranking the torsion bars a bit i just wanted to raise the truck so the tire doesn't cram in the wheel well....

more for looks not so much for off roading....

thanks for the info guys!
Click to expand...

1. As long as you haven't cranked the torsions bars too far down, you will still have the same range of travel with the tire in the wheel well. When you see folks add suspension lifts to "clear tires", this isn't really the case. If the tire will rub without a suspension lift, it will rub with one once the tire passes through that same point of the suspension travel again. Though, it may reduce rubbing on-road.

2. Lifting the front end does slightly help for offroading. It will raise the front bumper and center of the IFS skidplate to give you slightly more clearance.
 
Just to tag onto Layton's post, the rubbing with 35's (for me at least) wasn't vertical it was when turning. So the rub was at the back of the well, not the top. By raising the vehicle, it was able to eliminate 90% of the rubbing events by reducing the front end dive when loading the suspension in a corner. For you, the dive (delta in height) would be the same but the stopping point will changed so that the rub doesn't occur. In my case both changed (stopping point and dive) because I changed spring rates (stock to OME).
 
RobRed said:
Hoser used the correct term for adjusting the t-bars, "Pre Load". Preloading changes the ride quality by it's nature so to the OP, yes the quality changes, less spring return, perceived harsher.
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Not to beat a dead horse... but I'm pretty confident it doesn't.

The vehicle weight doesn't change, ergo the spring force doesn't change either. Nor does the spring rate change. Everything is exactly the same with the exception of suspension geometry. Cranking the bars only raises the neutral point, it has nothing to do with the force (or rate of force) being applied to the LCA.

To think about it another way, imagine lowering your vehicle off jack stands. The spring force will gradually increase until it equals the weight of the vehicle. Now raise it back up, adjust the t-bar, lower it back down and you'll be at the exact same spring force (and rate) just at a different position in space.
 
This is pretty tricky stuff because our minds naturally think about putting stiffer (higher rate) springs into a vehicle to change the ride height. This is the case for the rears. In that case, the spring force remains constant, but there is less total deflection because the spring is more 'stiff'.

Continuing down this dusty road, the effect stiffer springs has on handling is also counter-intuitive. In tuning cars, you stiffen the end you want to 'loosen' (or 'slip'). This is because of the effects of weight transfer. So if a car is understeering ('pushing'), you remedy it by stiffening the rear. Most people assume the opposite. So those of us who have added rear springs but only cranked the front t-bars have actually destabilized the vehicle. 00+ will compensate with VDC, but it's generally not something you want to do on a heavy, high CG vehicle.

Now let's discuss Torque vs HP!
 
RobRed said:
Hoser used the correct term for adjusting the t-bars, "Pre Load". Preloading changes the ride quality by it's nature so to the OP, yes the quality changes, less spring return, perceived harsher.
Click to expand...

It would, if the ride height did NOT change.
Go out and crank down your torsion bars, drive up and down the driveway, and then tell me if your front end raises or stays the same height.
It will raise unless you are already at full droop from over tightening the t-bars.

Adjusting the torsion bars does not change preload, it merely changes ride height.
 
I guess I should have been more verbose in my point.... as you adjust the torsion bar to raise the ride height the new angle of the control arm to the ground becomes greater, the control arm exerts less force on the torsion bar and is effectively reducing the pre-load so the ride feels stiffer.
 
so the guys gonna charge close to 300 total for the lift/alignement. does that sound about right?

i called a 4wheel place in south los angeles, and they are around the same price....

seems kinda high for what seems to be a fairly simple job (which i can't do!!! errrrrr)
 
I think that is in the ballpark for labor if you were getting new rear springs, new torsion bars and an alignment.

If they are just going to crank the OEM torsion bars and do an alignment, I think you could do much, much better. A regular alignment is like $60-70, so in essence you will be paying someone $230-240 to use a 30mm socket and an extended ratchet for 10-15 minutes on your vehicle.
 
LCbruiser2000 said:
so the guys gonna charge close to 300 total for the lift/alignement. does that sound about right?

i called a 4wheel place in south los angeles, and they are around the same price....

seems kinda high for what seems to be a fairly simple job (which i can't do!!! errrrrr)
Click to expand...

Drive down to La Jolla pay for some beer and tacos and I will help you do it yourself. Then drive over to Firestones, pay for a lifetime alignment. Less than 200.00 and you get free alignments anytime you feel you need one. This is a pretty simple project.
 
Mxndrnks said:
Drive down to La Jolla pay for some beer and tacos and I will help you do it yourself. Then drive over to Firestones, pay for a lifetime alignment. Less than 200.00 and you get free alignments anytime you feel you need one. This is a pretty simple project.
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I already have lifetime alignment @ firestone!! :) I'm totally down for buying beer and tacos. I only need the darn thing cranked a few times but I don't have the tools or know how to do it (directions or no directions)

Where in La Jolla are you? I'm actually in Oceanside til this afternoon
 
LCbruiser2000 said:
I already have lifetime alignment @ firestone!! :) I'm totally down for buying beer and tacos. I only need the darn thing cranked a few times but I don't have the tools or know how to do it (directions or no directions)

Where in La Jolla are you? I'm actually in Oceanside til this afternoon
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Bummer, I am in San Francisco until this evening. But, I have all the tools and my offer still stands. I am in Bird Rock on LJ Blvd.
 
Mxndrnks said:
Bummer, I am in San Francisco until this evening. But, I have all the tools and my offer still stands. I am in Bird Rock on LJ Blvd.
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Dude
you rock! :)
what kinda beer you drink?!


I'll be back down that way in a couple weeks. Maybe we can do it, a couple hour job? or quicker?

and can I drive it back to Oceanside after the adjust or do I need to get it aligned close to LJ
 
LCbruiser2000 said:
Dude
you rock! :)
what kinda beer you drink?!


I'll be back down that way in a couple weeks. Maybe we can do it, a couple hour job? or quicker?

and can I drive it back to Oceanside after the adjust or do I need to get it aligned close to LJ
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If all we need to adjust is the torsion bars, then it will be a really quick job as long as the bolt isnt too seized up. Has your truck always been in CA? If so, I dont think rust will be a big deal. Just hit the adjustment bolt with some PB Blaster for a few days before coming down. That will break loose any corrosion before hand. With no corrosion and as long as the tbars don't need to be re-indexed, it shouldn't take more than a 1/2 hour....and that is being generous.

You could drive back to Oceanside, however, there is a Firestone in PB like 2-3 miles from my house you could hit up before you head back north. Just dont do a ton of driving before getting the alignment done.
 
OregonLC said:
Summary:

1.0 Text of summary.
- 1.0.a: Ride quality does not change.
- 1.0.b: Don't jack it up like Nick did.
- 1.0.c: Never paint anything red.
Click to expand...
F=-kx
for a torsion spring
t=-k(theta)

As we increase theta t will increase
Force would be the first derivative of theta right?
something like 1/2k(theta)squared
As we increase theta the rotational opposing force increases which would change the ride, no?

It's been something like 25 years since I took any ME courses so I could be wrong.
 
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