how is soul quantified?

[joseywales]

I really don’t understand why all you people that hate on the 250 so much are here. Is your life so meaningless that you feel the need to haunt this sub-forum and just s***-talk the 250 all day? Get a life, and move on. We get it. You don’t like it. Fine. Now just take your negativity and move along.


As to the “soul” question, I don’t think many or any new vehicles have “soul” right out of the box. They need to earn it, like humans, through adventure and the gathering of experience and scars. My OJ era Bronco didn’t have soul when it was new, but now that it’s had 30 years of life experience, had “cancer” and been plucked from an untimely demise in a farmers field, it may have garnered a little soul. I’m not sure if it will take that much life experience for a new Land Cruiser to earn its “soul” merit badge. Only time will tell.

 

[jay3253]

Frankly, it's just become a "thing" to hate on the 250. Similar to past "things" like hating on the 996 headlights, Mercedes SBC brakes, and EV's.

But those are valid lol

 

[jay3253]

I really don’t understand why all you people that hate on the 250 so much are here. Is your life so meaningless that you feel the need to haunt this sub-forum and just s***-talk the 250 all day? Get a life, and move on. We get it. You don’t like it. Fine. Now just take your negativity and move along.

I don't think that is what's going on. I think it is more trying to think of where the 250 fits into the (if I may be so philosophical) hierarchy of an individuals needs. I have a 250 and will not sell it anytime soon. However I still think it has no soul. I also think soul is directly connected to feedback. The more numb a cars feedback the less included one feels so no connection no soul.

 

[joseywales]

Sorry, but it's not comparable with a GX460 or a GX470. Both have premium/bulletproof powerplants and premium interiors. The LC250 does not.

Yes, but both are also “Prado” derived, so per your own standards, they are not worthy of as much respect.

My opinion (not that anyone cares) on Lexus SUVs is that aside from a LX 450 or possibly a LX 470, none of them are worth a pinch of poop. I know lots of people love them, but they are not for me. I just can’t get behind their design.

The entire new generation of Toyota 4x4 vehicles being sold in NA is suspect in a lot of people’s eyes. I haven’t read of many real issues with the 4cyl hybrid drivetrain, but I haven’t specifically looked for any. I think it’s too early to deem them as unreliable yet, as we only have a year worth of data, and ANY new platform usually has some teething issues in the first year or two.

My situation is a bit different in that I’m leasing, so my commitment to the LC 250 is not permanent. If the things end up being turds, it isn’t my problem long term.

 

[thatcabledude]

I really don’t understand why all you people that hate on the 250 so much are here. Is your life so meaningless that you feel the need to haunt this sub-forum and just s***-talk the 250 all day?

Each subsequent Land Cruiser model has been poo-poo’d on by owners of previous iterations. That is nothing new. 200 series owners have been feeling inferior since 2008. They have about 17 years of suppressed rage and there is finally a new model to unleash it upon.

 

[Rednexus]

Yes, but both are also “Prado” derived, so per your own standards, they are not worthy of as much respect.

That particular post was facetious given how often the "Prado" and "light duty" are thrown out as insults by some in the 80/100/200 crowd . I obviously think that's a load of bull as mine gets used hard at 18 years of age - wheeling and work-truck things - and does just fine.

Back on Prado/GX....this is a Prado I saw on the road in Helsinki. It's a utilitarian vehicle that the rest of the world gets instead of our 4Runner. While it may share body panels/frame/other components, it totally lacks the premium paint/interior/tech and the premium drivetrain of a GX. It also has nowhere near the presence of a GX in person, instead gives off weird, nondescript Japanese SUV vibes instead of a Lexus luxury vibes (I prefer the latter). I haven't driven a Prado but I can only imagine the driving experience to be quite different than a GX as well, due to the differences in powertrain, interior quality, and sound deadening.

 

[joseywales]

Each subsequent Land Cruiser model has been poo-poo’d on by owners of previous iterations. That is nothing new. 200 series owners have been feeling inferior since 2008. They have about 17 years of suppressed rage and there is finally a new model to unleash it upon.

Right? I bought my first Land Cruiser, a 1977 FJ40 in 1987. The only series I have not owned is a 200. If I had a need to drop $50,000+ on a used car, I’d start shopping for a late 200. I remember thinking “blasphemy” when Toyota dared to put IFS into the 100. But then I sold my 80, and bought a 100 in 1999. Man, I loved that 100. While I will definitely miss the V8 in the 250, I still have my ‘03 Sequoia if I want a 4.7 and A343 fix. In fact, I daily drive the Sequoia and even with 400,000 on it, it remains my choice to travel in. The new 250 will be my wife’s daily, and I know I’ll enjoy the bump in fuel economy. I will enjoy the fond memories of my 4 cylinder BJ60s (I had two of those).

Time will tell how reliable the 250 will prove to be…

 

[rexington14]

Sorry, but it's not comparable with a GX460 or a GX470. Both have premium/bulletproof powerplants and premium interiors. The LC250 does not.

I'm with you on the 470. And on the interior of the 460. But the powertrain in the GX460 (and the UR V8's in general) is not bulletproof. Issues are widespread and well documented. There is a noticeable decline in reliability and durability that occurred in models where a UZ was replaced with a UR.

For all the hate on the T24A and V35A the long term reliability story of each engine is still yet to be written.

 

[Rednexus]

I'm with you on the 470. And on the interior of the 460. But the powertrain in the GX460 (and the UR V8's in general) is not bulletproof. Issues are widespread and well documented. There is a noticeable decline in reliability and durability that occurred in models where a UZ was replaced with a UR.

For all the hate on the T24A and V35A the long term reliability story of each engine is still yet to be written.

I do agree that the UR is what I deridingly call a compromised "fuel economy engine", relative to the UZ which is a bubble era engineering masterpiece. But, I also see the transmission issues as easily fixable (add a cooler), and I don't see the valley plate issues being any worse than the cracked exhaust manifold with the UZ (which took me 22 hours to replace). If my 470 were totaled today, I'd likely buy a 460 tomorrow, but might also consider a LX570 they appear to be a good used value.

Regardless, the same transmission and engine family were used in the 200. So, if the 200 is "bulletproof", than the GX460 is as well .

 

[1NTRANSIT]

I wouldn't say my 200 has much soul. What land cruisers have is cachet. The cachet is basically, "I drive this because I'm smart, have money, and can afford to drop coin on something not for the flashiness, but because it's capable as hell". It's basically the "I make good decisions" vehicle, that can also take me anywhere I want, reliably. I happen to think they're badass.

^THIS nails it for me and likely most of us even if too humble to admit.

100 was my first. To this day I still get that warm and fuzzy, mmmhhmmm, F yeah feeling every time I drive it. Great memories in the truck are part it but still I KNOW Im driving best in class (for the era). So yes, MY 100 and previous 460 definitely have soul.

I gave my experience on the 250 NVH and why it was my undoing with the truck. The 4cyl NVH robbed me of that special feeling we should get when driving/owning these vehicles. Im hoping to get some real seat time in a 550 soon, that will be the test for me if the platform will stack up to its lineage.

 

[Rednexus]

I gave my experience on the 250 NVH and why it was my undoing with the truck. The 4cyl NVH robbed me of that special feeling we should get when driving/owning these vehicles. Im hoping to get some real seat time in a 550 soon, that will be the test for me if the platform will stack up to its lineage.

Can someone please explain to me why no one is making a I-6 gas engine - hybrid assist, turbo, or otherwise - for truck/BOF SUV use, outside of Ram? Can't be that much harder to package or less efficient than a V6 and would eliminate the NVH issues.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like V6 engines. Some 4-bangers are OK, some aren't.

 

[vtshack]

Can someone please explain to me why no one is making a I-6 gas engine - hybrid assist, turbo, or otherwise - for truck/BOF SUV use, outside of Ram? Can't be that much harder to package or less efficient than a V6 and would eliminate the NVH issues.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like V6 engines. Some 4-bangers are OK, some aren't.

Grenadier has an inline 6. I had an LC200, a BMW X5, and now a 250. That B58 motor is amazing in the X5.

 

[rexington14]

Grenadier has an inline 6. I had an LC200, a BMW X5, and now a 250. That B58 motor is amazing in the X5.

I'm sure it is. While it's under manufacturer warranty.

 

[vtshack]

I'm sure it is. While it's under manufacturer warranty.

Haha, mine had three months left on the warranty when I traded it in for the 250. I think the B58 motor itself is rock solid at this point, but the rest of the car was going to be the issue. No regrets—I’m loving the 250, even more than my old 200!

 

[OSS]

I6 engines are considerably longer than V6 engines. Those extra inches require the entire vehicle to be longer. Extra length = extra weight.
(is one theory)

 

[rexington14]

Said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like V6 engines. Some 4-bangers are OK, some aren't.

I haven't owned V6 in a BOF. But we have owned 2 unibody family crossovers with the 2GR-FE. Can't really think of any powertrain related complaints in either one. MPG could be better I guess? Lexus in particular with the 2GR is excellent.

Anyways, all things considered if I simply need reliable solo transportation I'll gladly take Toyota's old 1.8L 4-banger over any of their V6s or their V8s. My 2500lb Corolla with the 1ZZ-FE and 5 speed manual has plenty of torque for zipping around town, handles great, gets 40+ MPG highway, will run forever on cheap parts and it can be fixed by anyone with 2 hands. The NVH of that car is it's soul.

 

[joseywales]

Can someone please explain to me why no one is making a I-6 gas engine - hybrid assist, turbo, or otherwise - for truck/BOF SUV use, outside of Ram?

I really want to drive the new Hurricane. I’d love to see it in the Power Wagon.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like V6 engines. Some 4-bangers are OK, some aren't.

I agree, although my ‘97 Tacoma 3.4 has 593,000 on it right now, and I flog that thing. Hoping to pass 600k soon.

 

[MrPiggy]

real question for owners: If you have ever had a Lc before (40/60/80/100/200), do you think 250 has no soul?

Forgetting about the 70? That's the one with a soul, well before the 2.8L killed the 1VD v8, or maybe before the 1VD took over from 1HZ...

I'm sure there were people who claimed the same thing ever since the 100 came out, but 105 with SAS had a soul, right?

If these people think the 200/300 have a soul or are a real Land Cruiser or the rightful heir/successor whatever, they should stop complaining and get the LX600/700... Or maybe that Lexus badge is a soul-killer...

 

[TimCFJ40]

When I sold my 100 and bought the 200, my biggest gripe was the feeling of loss of soul. To me, there's a certain amount of quirkiness, vibration, noise, and feel that gives a vehicle soul. The 200 was quieter, smoother, and didn't have the low beltline, high visibility of the 100. And it felt like it had less soul.

Another soul vs no soul comparison, my wife had a 2015 Acura RDX which was a soulless appliance. Super quiet, super comfortable, but even less than vanilla to drive. We traded it on a manual transmission Volkswagen Golf Alltrack, which has much more soul. Stick shift, more taught suspension, a little more noise and harshness. And 100% more soul from a driving experience.

I have no idea if the 250 has more soul than the 200, and I'm genuinely curious to drive one. The 200 is rock solid, reliable, and useful, but I wouldn't call it the most soulful vehicle we have. Probably the least of our fleet, but the rest of the fleet are (semi)quirky manual transmission rigs of various types.

 

[Rednexus]

It occurred to me on my commute home yesterday in our soulless Highlander appliance that modern vehicles are nothing more than another device. They are loaded with screens, they want you to buy subscriptions, they collect your data, and they share it without your permission. They have constant software glitches and require re-starts. They can be hacked, and your data can be stolen by 3rd parties. They only listen to your commands when they want to; pushing a button is asking the device permission to do something, and it may deny that request. At the end of they day, the device is focused on serving the needs of the device creators, the pleasure of the device end-user is simply not the purpose of the device.

Older pre-device vehicles are focused on the driver, and the driver is in control of the machine. The vehicle is not capable of collecting any data on the driver and exists completely outside the control of the vehicle creator.

We already have enough devices and algorithms ruining our lives and society. Our vehicles should not turn into another one.