How good is the spot gps?

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1911 said:
You are right; most wheelers are only running 2 meters, but he said "ham" not 2M, which could give unknowing readers the impression that no ham radio was capable of communicating beyond repeater range, which as you know is definitely not true.
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For sure. I think we are all trying to get to the same thing...well LJ just wants a gadget...but for others I think it's important to know the limits and also understand some options.

In my opinion if you are really going into the boondocks, here is what I do:

Cell Phone - Normal COMMs and TXT to the outside world
Ham Mobile and HT - APRS, and COMMs between Group
EPLB - Pull the Trigger Help Comes
SAT Phone - Normal COMMs and TXT When no Cell Coverage Exists
 
I see that one can get a PLB now for $250 or so. Not bad if it's a sure thing. Are there different sat or service systems with one superior and the one to get?

Seems like Sat phones + service is pretty costly though. That not so?



added: I've seen somebody mentioning that about 30% of the Spot reviewers on REI mentioned inability to link. Don't know if true but if so that is a lot.
 
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e9999 said:
I see that one can get a PLB now for $250 or so. Not bad if it's a sure thing. Are there different sat or service systems with one superior and the one to get?

Seems like Sat phones + service is pretty costly though. That not so?



added: I've seen somebody mentioning that about 30% of the Spot reviewers on REI mentioned inability to link. Don't know if true but if so that is a lot.
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I'm a fan of InMarSat for phone service. The thing to watch out for is that much of the Sat Business is reseller based and they mark up air time. The phones are 600 -1200 and the monthly rate depends if you want airtime included. You can prob find InMarSat for $20-30 month and 1.50 minute.

PLB like a SPOT or SAT phone needs a view of the sky to work. SPOT by the way is running off of the GlobalStar Network (SAT Phone).
 
RobRed said:
You guys are both right. Ham is not a waste of time for sure but not every radio has APRS capability, moreover there are times when you are not within range of a digipeater.

1911 It's great you have an HF option for voice but I would guess most guys are running 2M.

Sprocket, 1911 is correct in that if you have a 2M with APRS/GPS capability automatic mode is available. No need to touch the HAM to send continuous updates. What radio are you using?

The main question from LJ involves the SPOT which can be carried in the vehicle and on your person and at a touch of a button can summon SAR. The Ham is not quite as robust in that way. I listed several options at the top to achieve a "send-for-help-now" signal but unfortunately Ham doesn't have quite the coverage ubiquity that SAT Comms do. I'm aware there are SAT based APRS stations.
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I have a Kenwood radio:

Kenwood - TM-V71A

I'm sure for some people 2M is enough. For me SPOT is just an easy simple solution that worked better. I also hike out miles from the rig and then would have to rely on my handheld at that time. I go to areas that I can't hit a single repeater at 50 watts. I have been told that Eastern Oregon is the least populated place in the lower 48 states. Might be some of the trouble with 2M there for me. Also the fact that I don't really want to do the advanced stuff you guys are into. Not sure if my radio would even do it either. If i decide to go to a certain place to hunt for 3 days and it's an 8 hours drive on pavement, then 2 hours into the place on dirt, I want to know that I have some service there.

I don't want to live in my car for 3 months like that woman last year did to be honest.

When 2m and Verizon let me down on a number of trips I turned to SPOT. It's smaller than my cell phone and it works every time. I don't have to count on a digipeater or my tech ability. Just push the little button on the unit.

SPOT is simple and works. HAM is more complicated and may work in most cases for most of you. But it didn't really work for me where I go. It's another hobby. Do you have free time to mess with it?
 
RobRed said:
I dont think anyone could fault you for carrying a spot. As I said earlier you guys are both right. Sometimes we like to push whatever we are into as "the" solution. I prefer a multi-tier solution (see post 21)
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I agree with you and most of the folks that have posted. Even cyclosteve to a certain point, but I think he made it look too easy. I was just trying to point out the downside to HAM. I expected more when I invested money into the system and think people should hear both sides. Maybe other users could get more out of HAM than I do. But you may not want to mess with it when the time comes. SPOT offers plug and play that is idiot proof. My 7 year old could use it even! If you roll your truck into a creek, or a fire burns it to the ground, or battery is done what do you do?? I hike 5-10 miles cross country at times and a broken ankle could be fatal. I also roll solo/solo (just me, 1 rig) at times so I don't have much in the way of other support to count on.

SPOT stays in my jacket pocket the whole trip!

Cheers!

PS. I just have the small basic unit and can't see the need for one of the bigger advanced models.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=102
 
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Spot has worked reliably for me since I've owned it (some 2 years or so). I think folk that have had problem with it have typically not had it oriented correctly.

I've used it in the the US and surrounded by fairly heavy pine/tree cover and all messages have gotten out successfully. There's other threads in this sub-forum about that.

I used it for 2 weeks in the oz bush late last year sending 3 messages per day (morning/lunch/dinner) and all messages successfully got out. I typically let it run for 10 - 20 minutes to allow it time to have a few goes at sending out the message. I have the basic unit (2nd gen) and I prefer a self contained unit.

I can't fault the unit so far. Their website makes it easy to set things up and add email/text addresses to send position/help updates to.

I subscribe to their basic service and it works just fine. Never had to talk to a human, so can't comment on their customer service.

I carry a spare set of energizer lithium cells, though it is still running on the original set.

I do have 2m/uhf/hf in my vehicle, but never needed it for emergency use. I've used APRS and it works when you can hit a repeater - not always the case when driving in mountainous areas. The APRS is more for 'fun' than for an emergency.

cheers,
george.
 
Here is an excellent article on the use of PLB's and SPOT from the Rocky Mountian Rescue.

Rocky Mountain Rescue Group: About personal locator beacon (PLB) and SPOT systems

Based on this article, personally I would go with a PLB for emergency situations where my life or the life of others in my party was on the line. SPOT is a consumer-grade solution, where COSPAS-SARSAT based PLB's are commercial-grade and global. Price-wise the PLB's are a bit more initially, but pay for themselves after a year or so of not paying for SPOT subscription services.

As George said, the mapping/tracking features (both APRS and SPOT) are more of a novelty than an emergency necessity. Granted, knowing the last OK signal and overall direction travelled could help with SAR efforts.

In the end these are all tools, and tools can fail for a myriad of reasons. Best to have more than one tool in the toolbox, know each of their limitations, and how to properly use them when the time comes.

:cheers:

Steve
 
CycloSteve said:
Here is an excellent article on the use of PLB's and SPOT from the Rocky Mountian Rescue.

Rocky Mountain Rescue Group: About personal locator beacon (PLB) and SPOT systems

Based on this article, personally I would go with a PLB for emergency situations where my life or the life of others in my party was on the line. SPOT is a consumer-grade solution, where COSPAS-SARSAT based PLB's are commercial-grade and global. Price-wise the PLB's are a bit more initially, but pay for themselves after a year or so of not paying for SPOT subscription services.

As George said, the mapping/tracking features (both APRS and SPOT) are more of a novelty than an emergency necessity. Granted, knowing the last OK signal and overall direction travelled could help with SAR efforts.

In the end these are all tools, and tools can fail for a myriad of reasons. Best to have more than one tool in the toolbox, know each of their limitations, and how to properly use them when the time comes.

:cheers:

Steve
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I agree 100% - See post 21.
 
what is so special about these PLB batteries?
 
The best peice of advice from that Rescue group link:

"Any person who ventures beyond a trailhead should notify a trusted emergency contact of his or her plans in case there are problems. Do not rely upon PLBs, SPOTs, ham radios or cellphones to always work."
 
SPOT was mandated by my wife when I travel out of cell phone coverage. I don't travel alone and when I do travel to a truly remote location someone in my group has a sat phone. That said, SPOT has always worked well for me.
 
RobRed said:
Li ion non user replaceable, designed to push 5-6 watts for 24+ hours continuous.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
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I can see that one would want a very good battery, but why could it not be made user-replaceable in principle, marketing aside?
 
Chuck Husick on BoatUScom has some info on eprib battery replacement. Note they are NOT li-ion cells, they are PRIMARY LITHIUM cells.

cheers,
george.
 
george_tlc said:
Chuck Husick on BoatUScom has some info on eprib battery replacement. Note they are NOT li-ion cells, they are PRIMARY LITHIUM cells.

cheers,
george.
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thanks, interesting. The gist of it was of course that they use the battery replacement time to conduct tests. That's fine and useful but that could be left to the owner to decide if worth it. He also mentioned these batteries are potentially dangerous in case of a short.
I wonder how much of the non-user-replaceable feature may be a CYA lawyer-induced strategy.
(He did say in the 2006 article that some PLBs had user replaceable batteries. But doesn't seem like that's the majority from what I've read.)


Nevertheless, the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards buying a PLB. $250 and you're set for 5 years at least. Nothing compared to gas costs when exploring...
 
That article was updated in 2010 BTW.

I think there is some liability in the replacement by user but If I remember correctly the PLB's need to recertified by regulation. Remember a SPOT operates on a commercial for profit system and certainly dont have the regulatory requirements.
 
I look at the battery replacement of a unit like this as similar to having the battery in my dive-watch-chronograph replaced.

Yes, I could have someone crack the case and replace the battery locally, and the watch will work fine. However, the first dive it could fail and ruin a very expensive watch. With the factory-replacement you get the testing and certification. I send my watch off every two years for service, religiously.

All the more important as this device is one that you may need to save your life.

My brother is a member of the RMR in Boulder, and I have asked him to chime in on his experience both in the SAR side and carry/use of the PLB's. Will share this with the thread when I get his reply.

:cheers:

Steve
 
RobRed said:
PLB like a SPOT or SAT phone needs a view of the sky to work. SPOT by the way is running off of the GlobalStar Network (SAT Phone).
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And this is exactly why I've stayed away from SPOT. The last I checked the GlobalStar network was worthless in Baja, which is exactly why I would want a SPOT in the first place. This includes sat phones based on their system (Iridium does work).

Plus, a buddy went down to La Paz with a SPOT and had no coverage south of Ensenada. We tracked him for a whole week with no data showing up on the map.

SPOT might be a great tool in the US. But there are gaps in coverage.
 
pappy said:
And this is exactly why I've stayed away from SPOT. The last I checked the GlobalStar network was worthless in Baja, which is exactly why I would want a SPOT in the first place. This includes sat phones based on their system (Iridium does work).

Plus, a buddy went down to La Paz with a SPOT and had no coverage south of Ensenada. We tracked him for a whole week with no data showing up on the map.

SPOT might be a great tool in the US. But there are gaps in coverage.
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GlobalStart coverage for Voice (duplex) and SPOT (simplex) are very different. SPOT coverage worldwide is vastly better than for voice. i don't believe that poor coverage is the reason your budy's SPOT didn't work in baja.
 
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