Help with 2003 LX470 purchase

[Docboy]

Hi everyone,

Newbie here...

Hope to get some insight here... originally in the market for a used 07-09 4Runner Limited, but they have been hard to come by and when they do come on the market, they sell QUICK and are generally over priced in my region. Yesterday at a small non dealer dealership, I came across a 2003 LX; 1 owner, 115k miles, meticulously maintained by a Lexus dealership in NY per carfax. This the first LX I've ever seen for sale in my region, and it's price is actually less than a 4Runner! So I'm going to seriously consider the LX, considering its features and creature comforts.

Adjustable suspension works well, recent timing belt change.... Some issues with the car which I'm trying to get addressed: 1) Rear flip down DVD player has issue reading DVDs, message of "unrecognizable format" keeps popping up, 2) The subwoofer in cargo area is shot, 3) some leather wear/spots.

So 3 main question:
1) Are blown subwoofer and failed DVD player common on the LX? My wife has a RX330 and has an issue with a blown driver's side speaker. How much is this to repair, or replace?
2) I took some pics of the body, underside, and engine. I believe I see hints of rust or metal discoloration. Is this a deal breaker? Given this is a NY car (I live in the Pacific Northwest where our roads are not routinely salted), should I worry about this "rust?"

For some reason, I'm getting error message when trying to attach pics of the vehicle. But here's the link of the pics I posted over on Clublexus: Advice on 2003 LX purchase - Club Lexus Forums

3) I called a local Lexus dealership's service dept, and gave a service guy the VIN# to see if anything odd shows up. 3 months prior to the sell date of this car, a Lexus dealership in NY documented a CEL went on. Specifically the VGRS ECU light. It was noted this issue was not fixed at any Lexus dealership. Is this VGRS ECU light history significant? I'm wondering if the prior owner sold this LX to avoid fixing the CEL issue.

I test drove the car twice this weekend; first time I drove the car on Sat, the battery died and the car wouldn't start, so the dealership had to jump the car. No CEL.

The day after on Sun the car started fine, and I didn't see a CEL go on. Brief internet search suggests the VGRS ECU has something to do with steering and is a costly $4k fix. Is it possible for someone to turn OFF this CEL? If so, how long would it take for this light to go back on. Or maybe prior owner did get it fixed but not at a Lexus dealer.

This forum seems to be a lot more active than Club Lexus, so hoping some of you owners may be able to chime in. Thanks!

 

[pillguy]

I tried to find one myself and kept running into what you are finding, cars dumped after finding expensive repairs. You can look them up yourself on lexus owner site. The AHC suspension repairs are pricy and the steering rack is expensive as well. There is another key issue as well but I am forgetting it right now. I went with a GX 470 as it is very similar and a lot less expensive. Good luck

 

[Docboy]

I tried to find one myself and kept running into what you are finding, cars dumped after finding expensive repairs. You can look them up yourself on lexus owner site. The AHC suspension repairs are pricy and the steering rack is expensive as well. There is another key issue as well but I am forgetting it right now. I went with a GX 470 as it is very similar and a lot less expensive. Good luck

I did check out the AHC suspension; the LX goes up and down, which is kind of cool, and the AHC fluid level is ok.

Are you referring to the exhaust manifold? I was told to listen for any ticking noises upon starting the vehicle, which I did not hear.

How would one know if the steering rack has issues?

2 friends of mine have a GX 470, and they love it. I may have to consider the GX if hunt for a 4R or LX goes sour...

 

[blklnamru]

Just keep searching till you find that LX you want... I was actually in the exact boat you are in. Wanted a 4R Limited and every time the sale would fall through or the seller would start parting out the car (in two cases they were TRD supercharged 4R's). I even had a few LX and GX sales fall through due to car not being as mentioned in ad, or seller not budging on price. In the end, I found a great steal of an LX in SF and had my buddies check it out - followed by me taking a bus up from LAX to check it out, test drive it, get it smogged, registered and drove it back.

 

[tacoduck]

you own it, so don't second guess yourself. you bought a HALO vehicle at pennies on the dollar. looks like the truck was undercoated at one time to treat/ subdue rust. Difficult to know the condition of the frame without original pics. Check the upper hatch lip for rust.

 

[2001LC]

First don't buy rust. I looked at your pictures and it's very difficult to see much. But I do see bolts & lugs rusted, that are not matching undercarriage. By that I mean it looks as if sprayed. Many owners will spray undercarriage to prevent rust. But you need to be carefully it's not a cover up job.

Exhaust manifold is just parts and if tick goes away when engine is hot, not a big deal. BUT PITA to swap out for the DIY.

In 03 they added the new steering rack system, that has had issue with a pin IIRC again just parts.

The parts can either be fix by seller or used to bring price down if you DIY the work. The rust you'll fight for even and it will win.

 

[Docboy]

First don't buy rust. I looked at your pictures and it's very difficult to see much. But I do see bolts & lugs rusted, that are not matching undercarriage. By that I mean it looks as if sprayed. Many owners will spray undercarriage to prevent rust. But you need to be carefully it's not a cover up job.

Exhaust manifold is just parts and if tick goes away when engine is hot, not a big deal. BUT PITA to swap out for the DIY.

In 03 they added the new steering rack system, that has had issue with a pin IIRC again just parts.

The parts can either be fix by seller or used to bring price down if you DIY the work. The rust you'll fight for even and it will win.

Re: the steering rack, do you think the prior CEL is a bid deal?

Judging from the pics, would you recommend I pass on this LX?

I was thinking of getting a mechanic for a PPI, but if this rust is going to be an issue, then it may be a pass. Just when I was getting excited, UGH.....

 

[PADDO]

Without know the fault codes (if any) associated with the VGRS light being illuminated it's hard to say if it's significant or not. The Lexus service records for its VIN compiled at the lexusowners.com site should indicated what was found (including DTCs) and what repair recommendations the owner declined. It will also indicate that the steering shaft service campaign was completed or not (free fix to install a redesigned bracket and pin in the steering column). I would ensure that the VGRS light illuminates at start up, with all the other lamps during their test phase, as it's not unheard of for warning lamps to be removed to mask a bigger problem. I've had a VGRS light on and that was caused by a 10c body ECU fuse blowing, so do your due diligence and have a PPI done by someone who knows Toyota's/Lexus and will utilize Techstream to check DTCs and DTC history. Don't buy into internet "it's a $3k fix" or whatever, a member here not that long ago replaced his defective VGRS ECU with a serviceable used one for $200ish. If the rack is screwed then it will leak and/or wander all over the road. Replacing the rack mounting bushings is not difficult or expensive and it really tightens things up, as do new sway bar link ends and a few other bits and pieces. History is searchable here if you want to look up VGRS and other things.

Same deal with AHC components if they fail, used parts are plentiful and not expensive. If you need to rely on a dealer to try and fix your system with new parts then I'll pity you.
Speakers can be successfully reformed with ML specific components - iirc the sub refoam kit is about $15. You're looking at 13 year old speakers, they all fail eventually.
The AHC is also your AVS (adaptive variable suspension) so just because it goes up and down (which is good) you also want to confirm the damping responds to the 4 steps on the comfort switch. There must be a significant difference in the ride between the softest setting 1 and firmest sport 2. Search here to familiarize yourself with the "low to high" test to get an idea on the the health of the damper accumulators (aka spheres or globes) as their remaining gas charge pretty much determines the quality of your damping and ride.

 

[Docboy]

Without know the fault codes (if any) associated with the VGRS light being illuminated it's hard to say if it's significant or not. The Lexus service records for its VIN compiled at the lexusowners.com site should indicated what was found (including DTCs) and what repair recommendations the owner declined.

Can anyone confirm if the lexusowners site is working (drivers.lexus.com)? I'm a registered member, but the site keeps telling me "invalid credentials."

 

[2001LC]

^ @PADDO has cover it pretty well.

I do think the CEL was a big deal because not fixed, so what else have they let slid!

You can use the higher numbers like $3k for VGRS you've seen, to get a better purchase price. Then if you can turn a wrench it's just parts, and most not that bad. If you need to have shop fix, well, buy one already to done. The no NAV 00 & 02 are my specialty which didn't have the VGRS that was in 03 and up. The 03 thru early 05 had transmission low speed shutter, again not something I've had to deal with.

I can't say by picture if rust is bad or not. I'd get under with good flashlight and a pick and scraper to find out. That is if this deal looks interesting to you. I will say again the few bolts & lugs I could see tells me it's got rust. I'd be ready to walk if rusty.

I believe we all have rust around wind shield that needs to be addressed. Most are pretty minor, but some I'd not touch. Underbody or frame rust I will not buy.

 

[Docboy]

With the VGRS CEL, if it has turned on before, and if this issue is not resolved, how long before it comes back on again?

I'm going to try and call the Lexus dealership in NY that serviced the car tomorrow and see if they can shed more light.

 

[PADDO]

If there is fault that hasn't been repaired the VGRS warning lamp will essentially come straight back on, it's not like other systems like emissions that may have a start/stop cycle that triggers the warning. There are 20 VGRS DTCs, some require a "failure" 3 or 5 consecutive times to trigger the warning, but the system is constantly polling and checking itself. If a fault is detected the system is disabled (fail safed) and the warning is illuminated. If the lamp is off (but does illuminate during the ignition on self check) and you have 2.4 turns lock to lock whilst parked then the system is functioning. If the lamp is on and you have 3.4 turns lock to lock its in a faulted state and is disabled. Something as simple as low battery voltage can cause the system to go into a fault state.
And when you say CEL we (or at least I) think of the malfunction indicator light (MIL) which is another thing, the VGRS light is a warning light specific to VGRS, as is ABS, VSC etc etc. Just to avoid going down CEL/MIL rabbit holes due to misfires or loose gas caps or O2 sensors.

 

[Docboy]

If there is fault that hasn't been repaired the VGRS warning lamp will essentially come straight back on, it's not like other systems like emissions that may have a start/stop cycle that triggers the warning. There are 20 VGRS DTCs, some require a "failure" 3 or 5 consecutive times to trigger the warning, but the system is constantly polling and checking itself. If a fault is detected the system is disabled (fail safed) and the warning is illuminated. If the lamp is off (but does illuminate during the ignition on self check) and you have 2.4 turns lock to lock whilst parked then the system is functioning. If the lamp is on and you have 3.4 turns lock to lock its in a faulted state and is disabled. Something as simple as low battery voltage can cause the system to go into a fault state.
And when you say CEL we (or at least I) think of the malfunction indicator light (MIL) which is another thing, the VGRS light is a warning light specific to VGRS, as is ABS, VSC etc etc. Just to avoid going down CEL/MIL rabbit holes due to misfires or loose gas caps or O2 sensors.

Very much appreciate your posts and insight.

During my second test drive on Sun, I started and restarted the LX ~10 times (wanted to see if this would help the DVD issue, which did not).

I did not see a CEL (check engine light) or any indicator lights come on during the start/restart and during the test drive.

Is this a good sign re: VGRS?

 

[jLB]

If I remember correctly, the VGRS light will trigger if/when you replace the battery, and it will go away after a short time on its own.

 

[PADDO]

Very much appreciate your posts and insight.

During my second test drive on Sun, I started and restarted the LX ~10 times (wanted to see if this would help the DVD issue, which did not).

I did not see a CEL (check engine light) or any indicator lights come on during the start/restart and during the test drive.

Is this a good sign re: VGRS?

When you start all the dash lamps come on momentarily to show they are working. If the VGRS light bulb is fitted/working it will come on too for a second and then extinguish if there is no fault. Just like ABS, SRS, MIL etc. So if you have no warnings lit when idling and 2.4 turns lock to lock the system is happy. As previously mentioned a low battery can cause the light to come on or a battery change even, though I've not seen that as a result of disconnecting the battery to clear non volatile memory like the ATF shifting and fuel trims.

 

[LXPearl]

You could take the LX to a auto store and have them check the codes, most use a code checker that can sense preliminary codes. Some codes will take at least two run cycles where the vehicle has exceeded 45 mph to re-trip the engine light. So you will need to drive it, not just start it multiple times to determine if there is a latent problem. A good code reader will pick up the pending codes before they actually trip a light. The best is to have the Techstream unit so that all the mfg codes are picked up.

Rust is a concern from a northern vehicle if it appears it is corroding. When I was in snow country I frequently used undercarriage car washed whenever I drove on salted roads, and had very little rust. Not all owners do that, but some do. The Lexus dealer should have a record of repairs that were done at a Lexus shop. Carfax can help. The VGRS and rear DVD seem to imply lack of care and maintenance after the warranty period. However, these 100s are built to last, so once repaired and maintained, they do well. You can even pay a Toyota or Lexus shop to do a Certification assessment on it, which includes a list of all parts repairs needed to bring it up to a certified sales status. some do a quick mutli-check for free, but that is not the depth you want for a purchase - but is better than nothing.

 

[jLB]

The VGRS and rear DVD seem to imply lack of care and maintenance after the warranty period.

Yes/No/Maybe

VGRS:

Without more info on the VGRS light issue, we really don't know. It could've be a simple dead battery issue, that caused the VGRS light to flash, that caused a trip to the dealer.

VGRS light​

DVD:

It was my understanding that the DVD player has been discontinued (or at least is unavailable through the dealer). With all of the electronic tablets available for cheap, why would anyone spend a whole lot of time/effort on a creative aftermarket work around? (I don't think I even have a DVD player currently hooked up to a TV in my house.)
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