Help, Poorly Running 80

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The ABS and CDL lights came on because your center diff was locked (CDL) which also turns off the ABS system. Once you moved it enough for the locks to disengage (mechanical disengagement) the lights would go out.

Are you able to give it WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and get it to run good? If yes, then that points to the FPR. If not, then look for a vacuum leak or a problem with the throttle system.

-B-
 
Thanks for the link RavenTai. It does not run well with WOT because it seems that it cannot get above 1000rpm while in gear. When not in gear it easily goes above 1000rpm with WOT and all stumbles/shakes stop.

Fax
 
though of another thing wile writing something for another thread,

a EGR valve stuck open would give these symptoms,

here is how you could check for it, start with cold engine, remove the vac line from the modulator to the EGR valve, drive around the block (might even work just running it in the driveway if it is stuck open large enough) , if the EGR pipe is hot enough to put a third degree burn on your fingertips the EGR valve is stuck open, if it is just warm where you can hold it then just ignore me I sent you on a wild goose chase.

wile I was troubleshooting my EGR system I found out just how how bad a burn the EGR pipe can put on your fingers.
 
Reminds me of "Lefty's" test for a working fan clutch. :D

-B-
 
Checked out the fuel pump relay today, opened it up and it looked brand new. Cleaned the contacts a bit, reinstalled, same symptoms. Tomorrow I'll check the EGR, but maybe I'll just squirt some water on it rather than loose the use of a digit or 2. Kinda need these hands for my job.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm really hoping it is not the harness, but it is looking more and more like that is the culprit.

Fax
 
Checked out the EGR. Ran it for about 5 mins in the drive way. Squirted the pipe with water bottle, no sizzle. I could reach in there and hold it. Should I try a longer test?

Fax
 
no need to go any further, less than 5 min on mine with the EGR open the pipe was finger tip searing hot (actually felt the sizzle). goose chase over but at least you have ruled it out. before when the EGR was not working I could also hold the pipe and it was just luke warm.


poor running when in gear does sound like harness, but before you go in there and start taking things apart for a HG and harness change change start by unwrapping the harness and inspecting the wires wrapping and insulating and see if that cures your problem.
 
Okay, lets itemize what we have just heard.

1. Engine under load (in gear) does not go above 1200 rpm. There is no code according to the poster. What can cause the engine to run poorly and not throw a code?
Primarily what affects fuel the most? This to me sounds like fuel starvation, because of point 2.

2. Engine under no load (in park) does rev up and according to the poster revs fine at higher RPM. There is a key element here that must be realized. Something is causing the engine to run leaner. Spinning in neutral or park requires significantly less fuel and air than in a loaded situation. It also produces less exhaust.

3. Able to move it in 4lo only up an incline, in reverse.

So, the first question. Does the thread starter have a FSM?

Symptoms would seem to suggest to (Just an engine technician, not a toyota guy nor terribly familiar with FZJ80 engines just yet, but do have a manual...and I did happen to stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently) check the sensors on the intake. That would be the mass air sensor, the intake temp sensor. These two tend not to throw a code unless they go grievously out of range, or short to ground. The example would be that your truck thinks it is 100 degrees outside and really it is 40 degrees.

Other points that I could think up while on the brain storm is the throttle position sensor may have a flat spot in it. It requires little fuel to rev an unloaded engine, but much more pedal to keep a loaded engine moving under load.

I suggest you find your voltmeter and start taking readings off the sensors that determine air/fuel mixture.

Every sensor has an operation range that it can stay inside but sometimes even in the range there can be a problem. The example above about the temperature being too low or too high compared to actual. Mass air flow not showing air entering the intake at the proper velocity. TPS sensor not showing the correct throttle position but not outside the range of operation or shorted.

There is also a question about the condition of the intake itself. How does the filter element look? Have insects/critters setup a colony in the air filter? How about where the filter enters the fender? Mud or critters build up in the entrance?

How is your battery voltage to the engine, from the alternator, and what do your grounds look like? This could be as simple as a loose groundwire. First rule when trouble shooting a nightmare like this.

This should throw a code, but does your neutral switch function properly? Your engine uses this signal for air/fuel ratio.

What about the igniter/distributor? when was the last time you had your rotor inspected?

Do you know how to check the ingition coil with an ohm-meter? If you have a short to ground on the primary or secondary side this could cause you several runability problems and might not throw a code.

Okay....time for a beer. These were just the brainstorms I could think of, if I am out of my mind. Let me know, I am open to constructive input. I enjoy troubleshooting my own stuff a lot. I hope some of what I may have said gives you some ideas.:beer: :cheers:
 
#1 Just went out and bought a code reader. P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303 Misfires in cylinders 1,2, and 3.

#2 it does rev fine, but I can't tell if it is just smoothing out the misfires with momentum. Very shaky below 1200rpm.

#3 Just tried to back up the hill in reverse, same problem, won't go above 1000 to 1200rpm and stops at that point unless I have some momentum.

No FSM.

Intake tube replaced. Replaced all wires, plugs, cap and rotor. Tried running the engine with the cover off the air cleaner, seems to be clear all the way to the MAF sensor, same symptoms.

This really poor running happened suddenly a couple blocks from home. Previous to that there was some stumble on initial acceleration with heavy throttle, but it would clear at about the same point (1000rpm) and then have good acceleration/power.

Hope this helps shed some light, I really appreciate all the help. I am a 1 banana guy especially when it comes to all this EFI stuff. Maybe 2 banana on the 40. Thanks again this is saving me big $ not having to pay the machanic to do all this stuff. Sure glad I have the 40 to tool around in.

Fax
 
Took another look at the wiring harness by the EGR and it does not seem to have gone through the heat shielding, I will delve further into the wiring harness after checking out the fuel pump relay.

Misfires on 3 cylinders before and after new plugs, dizzy cap, rotor, and wires indicates you've got problems in that wiring harness. IME, a bad fuel pump or FPR wouldn't affect 3 specific cylinders. You might have 3 bad injectors or connectors on the injectors but that seems unlikely knowing that the symptoms came on suddenly about 2 weeks ago. You can also forget the intake hose and the MAF as those wouldn't affect 3 specific cylinders.

Inspect that harness without further delay. There are 3 areas they have been known to have problems. First is by the EGR valve due to the heat and melted wires. The second is behind the glove box, and the third is where it runs along the firewall between the area where it enters the engine bay and where it makes the turn to go by the EGR valve.

-B-
 
Connectors seem very snug. No bubbles in the antifreeze.

Also I think it is not on the fuel side because it is spitting soot out the tailpipe like when I have the 40 choked all the way. Makes me think there is extra fuel in the exhaust.

Fax
 
Fax,
You got a good one going.
Sorry man.
Everyone has already posted anything I can think of.
 
Inspect that harness without further delay. There are 3 areas they have been known to have problems. First is by the EGR valve due to the heat and melted wires. The second is behind the glove box, and the third is where it runs along the firewall between the area where it enters the engine bay and where it makes the turn to go by the EGR valve.

-B-

Anybody have a picture of the glove box location? The more information I can give to the guy that is going to do the work, the less time he wastes looking for the problem.

Thanks,
Fax
 
Fax,
It can't get much simpler than where the main harness runs behind the glove box and goes through the firewall.

It takes 1 minute, a phillips head screwdriver, and 2 screws to remove the glove box and look.

-B-
 
Fax,

I had a similar problem back in May and it turned out the EGR got stuck open, as others had mentioned this fouled my plugs on 4, 5, 6. I had a local shop look at it and the hooked it up to the OBD and it showed misfires on the same 4,5, 6. I cleaned the EGR pulled and cleaned the fould plugs and it cleared up. It still happens from time to time but not as severe.
 
Wow, you have been busy!

Well, what my gut told me to begin with about it being lean was a false lead.

Now that we have codes, a quick look in the FSM tells me that the trouble area would lie in one of these areas.

  1. Ignition System
  2. Injectors
  3. Fuel line pressure
  4. EGR
  5. Comperssion Pressure
  6. Valve Clearance not in spec
  7. Valve timing
  8. Mass air flow meter
  9. Engine coolant temp sensor

So, given what you have done thus far, and the idea that you smell unburnt fuel in the exhaust.

There is two ways this could go. First your engine is not igniting the fuel, but there is fuel present to ignite. Second, the injectors are not inputing fuel so the spark is lost.

or, a combination of both....:flipoff2:

While I am sitting here going through the FSM then the electrical diagram I found something that was quite shocking (at least I think so).

There is a splice point that connects the hotwire to the injectors for 1,2, and 3. It is located really close to the EGR valve in the harness.
Injectors1.jpg
Injectors1copy.png


I circled it in red in the one of the right just to point it out, left a clean one if you care to print a clean one. The splice point is listed as E16 which is fed off of the splice point E21 which happens to run from the passenger side firewall around the back of the cyclinder head.

I am leaning towards the harness being the cause. I really hope this helps.
 
Thanks Proven!

I will print this out and give it to my mechanic tonight. I am towing it down there after work tonight. I wish I could habd him my FSM too. Gotta order one of those, wonder if CD is still in today?
 
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