Help needed. 2H sputtering getting worse (1 Viewer)

[lostmarbles]

...So I guess my questions are:
1. Should I be pumping the lift/fuel pump when opening up the nuts on the injectors (seems like you kind of need 3 hands)?
2. Should I leave open or open more the nuts to see if anything else escapes besides fuel? (I assumed that if there were air, it would come out right away, but maybe that's a bad assumption).
3. Do I need to bleed more fuel out of the primary filter (like up to a cup of fuel or something) to see if there's water in it?
4. Any other ideas on what's going on?
Thanks!

Hi there..

1.. While pumping the primer you bleed only those air-bleed-points between the primer and the injector-pump body. That usually means just * the bleed nipple on the fuel filter fitted on the engine and * the bleed nipple on the body of the injector pump. .......And you close each of those nipples while fuel (with no more froth/air) is escaping.

2. You crack the injector nuts one at a time while someone else is cranking over your engine. (There's no point in trying to use the primer pump to create fuel pressure here because that pressure can't get past the injector pump.) Note: You always see "froth" during this exercise because the injection pressure is so high that the fuel never exits "smoothly/cleanly". So just re-close each one once you've made a bit of a diesel-mess with it.

If nothing else is wrong, the engine will usually fire up properly during the "injector nut bleed process" (and even before you've got to crack the nut on the final injector but keep going to do them all anyway).

Air ingress typically occurs in vehicles like this HJ47 from a loose connection or crack somewhere in the fuel system..

 

[Paraglider]

Hi there..

1.. While pumping the primer you bleed only those air-bleed-points between the primer and the injector-pump body. That usually means just * the bleed nipple on the fuel filter fitted on the engine and * the bleed nipple on the body of the injector pump. .......And you close each of those nipples while fuel (with no more froth/air) is escaping.

2. You crack the injector nuts one at a time while someone else is cranking over your engine. (There's no point in trying to use the primer pump to create fuel pressure here because that pressure can't get past the injector pump.) Note: You always see "froth" during this exercise because the injection pressure is so high that the fuel never exits "smoothly/cleanly". So just re-close each one once you've made a bit of a diesel-mess with it.

If nothing else is wrong, the engine will usually fire up properly during the "injector nut bleed process" (and even before you've got to crack the nut on the final injector but keep going to do them all anyway).

Air ingress typically occurs in vehicles like this HJ47 from a loose connection or crack somewhere in the fuel system..

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. I think I'll go through all the steps again and then look for where the air might be coming in (or vice versa).

 

[Tapage]

One of my long list of " air " problems in Tencha was the stock fuel water separator .. it had a pin hole ( was almost invisible ) maybe due to rust that was making the damage ..

That's why I always suggest the fuel container and crear hose directly to feed the IP ..

 

[Paraglider]

One of my long list of " air " problems in Tencha was the stock fuel water separator .. it had a pin hole ( was almost invisible ) maybe due to rust that was making the damage ..

That's why I always suggest the fuel container and crear hose directly to feed the IP ..

So you eliminated the primary filter??

 

[Tapage]

So you eliminated the primary filter??

I replace it with a water separator racor unit with a clear glass bowl ..

 

[hj 60]

I had the same pinhole but no problems, probably because the separator was full of oil sludge.
Changing the separator is possible without any tools.

inside separator/sedimenter:

The OEM hard fuel line is 8 mm in diameter (.314"). 5/16" (.312")
8 mm inside (14 mm outside) rubber hoses
It was to expensive to keep the 24-27 Volt watersensor (connects the two wires so light goes on)

different types: Delphi HDF296

I still need to make a bracket for protection but nothing is broken:

links to part websites:


Making Fuel Lines

http://www.mastminder.com/MastMinder%20 ... %20kit.pdf

https://www.svb24.nl/nl/diesel-filter-a ... rator.html

http://dieseldokter.nl/?product=delphi- ... opvoerpomp

http://www.nauticgear.nl/techniek-aan-b ... eider.html

http://www.exalto.com/nl-nl/parts/filte ... erkproduct


http://www.euro4x4parts.com/pieces_toyo ... ence_d_eau

 

[Paraglider]

I replace it with a water separator racor unit with a clear glass bowl ..
Ok. I've got one of thise coming in a couple of days.

 

[Paraglider]

I've got the same one with a glass bowl on its way.

 

[hj 60]

Oke the good is an true extra filter (the water sedimenter is only a gravitation thing, no actual filter)
The bad is glass under car but I have driven plenty 4x4 with rocks, steep climbs and no damage, the bowl has a plastic nob so I am waiting for it to break.
If you fill the filter halfway and it does not fill to full with engine off than the system (hoses) are air tight and good to go.
This is a very important check for your situation!
I then started and after a few minutes revving, priming, driving the bowl was filled.
More than 6000 km driven since replacement.
Better to use new screw claps I advise, I used the old clamps and rusted bracket: owners freedom

 

[Paraglider]

I've got the same one with a glass bowl on its way.

Oke the good is an true extra filter (the water sedimenter is only a gravitation thing, no actual filter)
The bad is glass under car but I have driven plenty 4x4 with rocks, steep climbs and no damage, the bowl has a plastic nob so I am waiting for it to break.
If you fill the filter halfway and it does not fill to full with engine off than the system (hoses) are air tight and good to go.
This is a very important check for your situation!
I then started and after a few minutes revving, priming, driving the bowl was filled.
More than 6000 km driven since replacement.
Better to use new screw claps I advise, I used the old clamps and rusted bracket: owners freedom

So I fill the filter half way before I attach it onto the brackets and integrate it with the fuel lines, and you're saying if it continues to fill to full before starting it, then that means I have air in my line? And would the air, then, be between the tank and the filter?

 

[Paraglider]

Oke the good is an true extra filter (the water sedimenter is only a gravitation thing, no actual filter)
The bad is glass under car but I have driven plenty 4x4 with rocks, steep climbs and no damage, the bowl has a plastic nob so I am waiting for it to break.
If you fill the filter halfway and it does not fill to full with engine off than the system (hoses) are air tight and good to go.
This is a very important check for your situation!
I then started and after a few minutes revving, priming, driving the bowl was filled.
More than 6000 km driven since replacement.
Better to use new screw claps I advise, I used the old clamps and rusted bracket: owners freedom

One other question. My filter with the glass bowl came today and it had the bolts to close off one of the two entries and exits but didn't come with the bolts with the nipples to attach the fuel line. It looks like yours did. Do you know what size of thread and if it's fine thread (looks like it to me) and if I can pick this kind of thing up at a Napa or O'Reilly type auto store? Thanks and sorry for all the questions.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I've got the same one with a glass bowl on its way.

it continues to fill to full before starting it, then that means I have air in my line? And would the air, then, be between the tank and the filter?

yes and yes

 

[roscoFJ73]

If its missing the inlet and outlet nozzles ,you should contact the seller. They always come with the kit filter/sedimenter. You could them at any diesel injection or pneumatic shop.
It looks like the thread and metric size is on HJ60 pics above

 

[hj 60]

I dont know the size but it seems to be: 1/2"UNF-20 for the housing
(that also is in the picture so maybe I was sober when I made that)

It says ¼ BSP for the inner outer side (the bigger thread size), also
1/4 BSP x M14 x 1,5
https://www.google.nl/search?q=¼+BSP&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Lr4kWNXLHcvc8Af2jYGwAg

This is what I got on the receipt, I cant find the filter cover size:
Delphi | Artikelcode: 303904-TN
Aansluitset 8 mm slang voor DELPHI HDF 296

same set but no size:
DELPHI HDF 296 aansluitset Voor 8mm Slang

this seems to fit: 2 x 1/2" UNF
2 x SETS OF 1/2 UNF BANJO BOLT & 1/2 BANJO EYE BOLT 8MM KIT SUIT CAV HOUSINGS | eBay

If you remove the diesel fuel line from the tank side it will drain the tank (check for you if it does deliver a steady stream of diesel)
If you then fit tank side hose to filter it will start slowly filling the glass bowl.
So then quickly attach the fuel line leading to original filter and then the bowl should not fill further.
(I would wait a few hours because you don't know if your problem originates from a leaking water sedimenter/separator)

If it fills you have a crack/air further in the system.
I have seen people mention leaking fuel lines (small hairline cracks) in engine bay, it is not easy to find.

 

[hj 60]

And the nipples are self closing, no white tape or glue or stuff is needed.

The filter seems to be 5 micron, the original in engine bay is 10 micron.

This makes me a bit mindfull about biodiesel addition in regular diesel, that might release old sediment and clog up 5 micron pretty fast, just beware.

This is veggie oil (NOT regular diesel but to get an idea) :

 

[Paraglider]

I had the same pinhole but no problems, probably because the separator was full of oil sludge.
Changing the separator is possible without any tools.

inside separator/sedimenter:

The OEM hard fuel line is 8 mm in diameter (.314"). 5/16" (.312")
8 mm inside (14 mm outside) rubber hoses
It was to expensive to keep the 24-27 Volt watersensor (connects the two wires so light goes on)

different types: Delphi HDF296

I still need to make a bracket for protection but nothing is broken:

links to part websites:


Making Fuel Lines

http://www.mastminder.com/MastMinder%20 ... %20kit.pdf

https://www.svb24.nl/nl/diesel-filter-a ... rator.html

http://dieseldokter.nl/?product=delphi- ... opvoerpomp

http://www.nauticgear.nl/techniek-aan-b ... eider.html

http://www.exalto.com/nl-nl/parts/filte ... erkproduct


http://www.euro4x4parts.com/pieces_toyo ... ence_d_eau

Hi, me again. I ordered two different sets of bolt + nipples for the 296 fuel filter. One was a 5/16inch male side with the 8mm nipple and the other was a 14 1,5 8mm bolt and nipple combination. The latter was to match what is in the photo you have in this thread where it specifies 14 1,5 8mm. However, it doesn't even start to screw into the mount. The 5/16 inch one does start to screw but then stops after a couple rotations. I looked back at the picture you included and realized the bolt + nipple shown with the specification isn't the same that is actually shown screwed into the fuel filter mount (they have a different number of ridges). So I have emailed the guy who sold me the fuel filter mount, filter and glass jar to ask him if he sells the bolt + nipple combination that fits it as well. I thought I'd hit you up, though, too, to see if you know what the specs are on the brass one you show in your picture of it mounted. (I have heard that it's best not to mix brass with aluminum (which I assume would the case here but not sure the mount is aluminum) so I'm looking for a steel or zinc bolt/nipple combination. Anyway, if you have the specs, that would be great in case the guy I bought the whole thing from doesn't know or doesn't sell them. Thanks! (By the way, I'm sure our mounts are the same because everything matches.)

 

[hj 60]

Something simple goes to bad, I have just send an email to the seller where I bought my set and ask for specifications.
But everything mentioned above seems what I got

The 8 mm hose side is 14x 1,5 / 8mm
that screws in the (2 nipples, stupid design) nipple that goes into the filter head.
The filter head size is ?
the problem is that the original also threads itself but not at the first rotations, it is pretty far in before force is needed.
I found this in an ad: Delphi 296 = 1/2" x 20 UNF, for 1/4" en 5/16" pipe.
Do you have a picture ?

When I look at my table pictures maybe it helps to know that both right-hand side nipples are screwed in by hand so it shows how far it bolts in before hand-tight, good luck, I just ordered a set and did not measure what I got.
Compared to how they are under the car is is only a few mm from hand tight to air tight.

Another add states:
In 2 x M14x1,5

Out 2 x M14x1,5
But I dont think they sell (and I use) the filter side nipple for nothing, just afraid that if I take it apart it will leak afterwards.
If I really have used two while one also fits that is really stupid.

 

[Paraglider]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel like we're trying to solve the world's greatest problem to save humanity and all we're trying to figure out is the size and threading to this thing! The difficulty level of both seems to be about the same.
Anyway, thanks for looking into it and seeing if your seller has any info. Through a magnifying glass, I looked at both the bolt that came with the filter and fits and the one I bought and there are definitely some differences. The one I bought has more pointed edges on the top of the thread and the distance between those pointed edges and the more rounded ones of the fitting bolt seem to be farther apart (wonder if it's a 1.25 instead of a 1.5?). The other difference is the fitting bolt has a much wider flange before the threading starts than the other one (doubt that's the real difference, though.).
I'll let you know if I hear anything from my seller just as a fyi in case you run into some other mudder like me. (By the way, your English is really, really good!)

 

[hj 60]

Thanks, I have a tap set with thread measuring tool (forgot I had that) and ordered one and should have had one long time ago:

• 
• 

CHIC Measuring Tool 60 Degree Thread Blades Screw Pitch Gage Gauge Dual Head

CHIC Measuring Tool 60 Degree Thread Blades Screw Pitch Gage Gauge Dual Head | eBay


Seller replied:
Eerlijk gezegd durf ik het niet zo te zeggen. Het is een Engels filter met engels draad, volgens mij BSP.
Dat verloopt naar inwendig metrisch draad.



It says:
to be honest I dont dare to say (the size), it is an english filter with english thread, I think BSP.
That (nipple) goes to inside metric thread.



But most websites just sell it as a standard kit so maybe you can order online, local marine/diesel shop must have them.
And it might not solve your problem if the line is cracked further up to the engine bay.

Did you replace the priming pump, very cheap Bosch replacement, also clean small inline filter before priming pump.
Is it one (sticking) injector or all? can you listen/feel the injector lines?

 

[Paraglider]

It looks like they all come from the United Kingdom so I doubt shops here in the U.S will readily have the but I'll check. Most of the ones on ebay do not include the nipples and I wish some only included the nipples, but I'll probably end up having to buy a complete set again but with the nipples. I bought the thread measuring tool but coming from China, but it won't get here for a while. Thanks for finding that, though.
I have the Bosch primer replacement and was going to have a shop put it in while they did some other work but they're just sitting on the job, doing nothing, so I might have to do it. Did you do your replacement? The space is pretty small to get in there and so far, everything on the rig has been VERY hard to loosen. Any trick to getting the thing out?
I bought a secondary filter also to replace the one near the injectors but have broken two strap wrenches trying to get it off (like I said, . . . ). I'll probably have to take off the two metal fuel lines blocking getting good leverage on the filter. It's all a process!
I bled the injectors but maybe not enough so I might try that again as well.