help! need real time help-engine surging

[rideglobally]

i am on the side of the road near death valley california. i have a 12ht engine diesel engine. it surges uncontrollably to high rpm when you press the gas pedal. it starts and idle no problem.

i notice that the waste gate actuator moved back when the rpm surges uncontrollably.

earlier today i lost boost, then the boost came back and the engine was running fine. until this problem started happening.

what would cause a diesel engine to surge like this? please help

 

[rideglobally]

Help

Anyone out there?

 

[waiting for time]

Hello Rideglobally,

Don't know if I can help you,you give litle info on the problem.
By surge you mean it starts to rev uncontrolably?
If so it probably runs on its own engine oil.
This can happen when the pressure in the carter is to high, compression loss past the pistons, or the turbo is leaking a lot of oil in the intake. An other problem can be if there is leaking diesel fuel in the carter, when the engine temperature is getting higher the fuel starts to evaporate and blows in the intake manifold adding extra fuel to the engine.
You can check the engine oil for diesel (smell) and the level will be to high.

Otherwise you can have a serious air leak in the vacuum/intake system.

Hope this will help you.

 

[rideglobally]

thank you waiting for time,

sorry for the late response it is very hot here and my phone ran out of battery.

here is more info on the problem. yes the engine revs up uncontrollably, the first time it rev up there was a lot of black smoke, the next time it reved up it was maybe white smoke. it starts and idle not a problem but when you give is about 1800 rpm a couple of times it will rev up uncontrollably and you have to choke it to kill the engine.

i have had problem shutting down my engine with the ignition key cause of possible problem with the vsv switch so my vacuum line to the vsv is disconnected and i shut down the engine manually by choking it.

i also check the radiator water no sign of oil and i also check my oil no sign of water. does this possibly rule out a blown head gasket?

the temperature here is 105 degrees Fahrenheit. when i was driving it all the vital sighs of the engine were good. oil pressure between 30 to 40 psi, pyrometer was reading 900 fahrenheit at 1800 rpm, water temp was between 180 to 190 fahrenheit. as i said earlier there was a loss of boost and power for about 1 hour, then all of a sudden it seem to come back to normal again, then i was noticing a loss of boost again and power so i turned up my manual boost control half a turn.

what is a carter?

the turbo was making some weird sounds earlier so the turbo can be a possibility, i will check to see if there is excessive oil in there. it is possible that i might have lost my turbo, i don't hear the whining sound anymore.

how can an excessive leak on the vacuum line cause this?

i will check the smell of oil for diesel.

i am now waiting for a tow truck, one of the challenges with this engine here in california is that, it is hard to find a diesel mechanic that knows them well. so i greatly appreciate all the help.

Hello Rideglobally,

Don't know if I can help you,you give litle info on the problem.
By surge you mean it starts to rev uncontrolably?
If so it probably runs on its own engine oil.
This can happen when the pressure in the carter is to high, compression loss past the pistons, or the turbo is leaking a lot of oil in the intake. An other problem can be if there is leaking diesel fuel in the carter, when the engine temperature is getting higher the fuel starts to evaporate and blows in the intake manifold adding extra fuel to the engine.
You can check the engine oil for diesel (smell) and the level will be to high.

Otherwise you can have a serious air leak in the vacuum/intake system.

Hope this will help you.

 

[doug720]

You might take the turbo outlet hose off and look inside.

Check/look for:

Excess oil - which may be reason for rev up, ie burning engine oil (now fuel) from seal failure. It coats the inside or hose with oil and feeds engine.

Turbo - See if you can spin the blades. If bearing went, seals also go many times. If you can't turn, you found the problem.

The lack of boost and rev-up point to this area. I had basically the same thing happen to one of my Cummins 5.9's in my boat.

Hope this helps


Doug

 

[rideglobally]

i have a hunch that you are correct, i will check on this first thing tomm. nulla has been towed to a diesel shop in las vegas. as i posted earlier i was losing boost and hearing a noise from the turbo. this turbo was rebuilt about 8000 mile ago.

if this is the problem i should be able to find a turbo rebuilder here in las vegas or maybe put the garrett turbo and get on my way.

i know there is a posting on the ih8mud about the garrett turbo for the 12ht. i will search ih8mud now for the garrett turbo.

if not this what do you think are the other possibilities.

thanks Doug

You might take the turbo outlet hose off and look inside.

Check/look for:

Excess oil - which may be reason for rev up, ie burning engine oil (now fuel) from seal failure. It coats the inside or hose with oil and feeds engine.

Turbo - See if you can spin the blades. If bearing went, seals also go many times. If you can't turn, you found the problem.

The lack of boost and rev-up point to this area. I had basically the same thing happen to one of my Cummins 5.9's in my boat.

Hope this helps


Doug

 

[Dave 2000]

I gather the OP is on the way to getting it sorted, he did ask 'what is a carter?. I too have never heard of a part called that?

regards

Dave

 

[waiting for time]

Hi Rideglobally,

Sorry I was not live but it was night here.

The way you discribe the problem sounds like the turbo.
Basicly it is like Doug says the seal starts to leak on the intake side, most of the time coused by bearing faillure.
I have also seen a leaking fuelinjector leakingdiesel to the engine oil, you will notice this by the higher oil level in the sump (carter) and the oil starts to smell like diesel. If this happends it can be a seal but also a crack in the cilinder head. But I haven't heard of Toyota engines with this problem.

If this happends you have to smuther the engine by braking in gear or block the air intake. Normaly you shut down a diesel by cutting off the fuel but it gets it from somewhere else so it goes to as much revs as it can or more. I have seen a dieselengine totalyvdestruct itself in a few minutes. It goes until either the sump is dry or the parts leave the engine thru new made holes.

Good luck,

 

[bigbrowndog]

Hi Rideglobally,

Sorry I was not live but it was night here.

The way you discribe the problem sounds like the turbo.
Basicly it is like Doug says the seal starts to leak on the intake side, most of the time coused by bearing faillure.
I have also seen a leaking fuelinjector leakingdiesel to the engine oil, you will notice this by the higher oil level in the sump (carter) and the oil starts to smell like diesel. If this happends it can be a seal but also a crack in the cilinder head. But I haven't heard of Toyota engines with this problem.

If this happends you have to smuther the engine by braking in gear or block the air intake. Normaly you shut down a diesel by cutting off the fuel but it gets it from somewhere else so it goes to as much revs as it can or more. I have seen a dieselengine totalyvdestruct itself in a few minutes. It goes until either the sump is dry or the parts leave the engine thru new made holes.

Good luck,

If this happens a fire extinguisher is handy as you may not be able to get close enough after lifting the bonnet [hood]. Spray it down the snorkel.

 

[rideglobally]

thanks you all,
i am now preparing for the possibility of rebuilding the turbo or replacing it with a garrett turbo, so that i can get on my way asap. i have been searching ih8mud for the garrett turbo that will fit on the 12ht engine. i can not find this thread if you know about it can you pls send me the link, and or do you have opinion of my best option garrett turbo or rebuild the oem ct26 turbo?

here is picture of Nulla on top of ad tow truck.

 

[waiting for time]

Be shure to clean the intake from oil.

Sorry for the language mixup a carter is the dutch word for Sump.

 

[daboheme]

Long shot, but just make sure the wastegate rod is still physically connected to the wastegate. I was mucking about with my boost settings, didn't put circlip back that holds rod in place and wastegate then got stuck open. No boost. Black smoke. Lotsa oil in the intake.

 

[waiting for time]

Long shot, but just make sure the wastegate rod is still physically connected to the wastegate. I was mucking about with my boost settings, didn't put circlip back that holds rod in place and wastegate then got stuck open. No boost. Black smoke. Lotsa oil in the intake.

An open wastegate would normaly not give exess oil in the intake area. I would check the seals on the turbo and the sump pressure if I where you.

 

[daboheme]

Well, that's what I got (I suspect a seal on the turbocharger is on it's way out too...). My understanding is that if wastegate is stuck open, oil pressure rises as the revs pick up but no intake pressure so seal leaks. 2c.

 

[rideglobally]

garrett turbo or turbo rebuilder in las vega, nevada

thank you all again,

from all the comment here i am very near certain that it is the turbo.

my next challenge is locating a turbo so that when the shop opens i can locate one. nulla has been towed in las vegas, nevada.

i want to have both option of rebuilding my oem turbo and changing to a garrett turbo. my question is, what the garrett turbo that will fit, work well and maybe enhance the performance on my engine, again it is a 12ht.

also does anyone knows of a turbo rebuilder in las vegas or where i can get the garrett turbo?

 

[eleblanc]

Not sure you have the hose on each side of the throttle body like a 3B, but check the hose. I had the same problem and one of the hose had disconnected, maybe yours is simply cracked and leaking.

Did your problem sounded like this one;
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/221421-too-much-power-problem.html

and sadly this:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...elp-needed-my-newly-rebuilt-now-blown-3b.html

 

[rideglobally]

turbo rebuilder in las vegas

i am now at the shop and i am looking for a turbo rebuilder in las vegas or the garrett turbo that will work on a 12ht diesel engine. if i can get the turbo i am sure i can get back on my way today. again i know there is a link here on ih8mud on that garrett turbo, i am still looking for it, so pls send me the link if you know it or if you know a turbo rebuilder in las vegas let me know.

 

[rideglobally]

i am at the shop and it is definitely the turbo. when we took out the turbo there was oil all over my intercooler, and the blade of the turbo are shot. Thanks to Tapage he responded back to my pm. the garrett turbo i am looking for is the GT2860R. if i can find that i can be on my way in a couple of hours. if anyone know where i can get this turbo in las vegas, nevada or the surrounding area, or near i can drive there or it can be overnighted to me tomm. i would really like to get this turbo today.

thanks much for all you help.

 

[lynchmob]

I hope you realize that the 2860 is not going to be a bolt on swap if you find one. You will have to work out the oil feed and return lines as well as make or buy an adapter to fit it to your manifold. You will also have to work out the water lines or block the water lines on the 12HT.
Also keep in mind that if your compressor fan has disintegrated the metal went into your intercooler and engine.

I just did a quick google search for turbo shops in vegas with no luck. Those turbos are all over ebay. Maybe one of the sellers is in vegas.
Good luck

 

[Stone]

I don't know if this will help you, but I put in a CT26 turbo from a Supra into my 12H-T when my original turbo was butchered. It takes a little more RPM's to bring up to full boost, but it has excellent mid to upper range response. Just had to pull the pins out and clock the housing slightly differently to fit. Maybe you can find a Supra turbo around there cheap?

With your IC setup...the Supra turbo running higher boost (~18 psi as Gbentink recommended) might just be the ticket.

BTW...turbo was from a 7MGT-E Supra engine.