HDJ81 - no fuel when cold (1 Viewer)

[finderscuba]

1990 JDM HDJ81 with a 1HD-T

After successfully correcting my no glow problem, my cold start woes continue into the fuel side of things.

The problem: truck is difficult to start after sitting overnight in -15°C or colder. I have to crank and crank and pump the fuel primer until either the batteries die or it eventually starts. Check this thread for additional background and a video (https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...electric-fan-sound-when-key-first-turned.html).

I'm manually glowing, I have a battery blanket wrapped around my fuel filter and primer, I have a lower rad hose heater installed, and I use fuel antigel. When the fuel filter is cold, I cannot prime it. When it's warm (with battery blanket) I can pump and pump and it doesn't really "firm up". Fuel sometimes leaks out from under the priming button, but only in small quantities.

I park on a slight incline nose-up. I've tried parking the other way but I don't think it made any difference. The incline is really only slight.

It has been really cold here (avg overnight low of -27°C - windchills down to -45°C) so working on the truck is extremely difficult. My garage is not-yet heated. There are some obvious things I should check first but you have to realize how difficult it is to even hold a wrench with gloves on or how painful it is to hold one without gloves. Plastic breaks if you look at it wrong as well.

I'm thinking that the primer may be leaking air since I sometimes see some fuel "weeping" when I'm priming. Is there an o-ring or other replaceable seal in the primer? I should replace the fuel filter and replace the spring clamps on the fuel hoses at the filter and IP. Next might be to install some clear fuel hose (does this exist?) If I can find some clear fuel hose I could put that in temporarily when I replace the clamps. Any parts sourcing and major wrenching will have to wait until after Christmas now.

I'm going to go study my FSM to see if there are any exploded diagrams of the primer.

mqnUG

 

[canucksafari]

I'm thinking that the primer may be leaking air since I sometimes see some fuel "weeping" when I'm priming. Is there an o-ring or other replaceable seal in the primer? I should replace the fuel filter and replace the spring clamps on the fuel hoses at the filter and IP. Next might be to install some clear fuel hose (does this exist?) If I can find some clear fuel hose I could put that in temporarily when I replace the clamps. Any parts sourcing and major wrenching will have to wait until after Christmas now.

If you see diesel weeping out then you have a bad seal and likely air is getting in. Most just replace leaking primers with new ones. Lots of threads here on that one. When you prime your pump, do you open up the bleeder? You have to give the air somewhere to go. Also, have you replaced your fuel filter? It may be waxed or frozen moisture blocked.

 

[Tapage]

I've tried parking the other way but I don't think it made any difference. The incline is really only slight.

It has been really cold here (avg overnight low of -27°C - windchills down to -45°C) so working on the truck is extremely difficult. My garage is not-yet heated. There are some obvious things I should check first but you have to realize how difficult it is to even hold a wrench with gloves on or how painful it is to hold one without gloves. Plastic breaks if you look at it wrong as well.

nothing technical to add to your thread dude .. I'm not a cold weather guy .. just to say looks like a real pain life under that conditions ..

damn . !

 

[finderscuba]

If you see diesel weeping out then you have a bad seal and likely air is getting in. Most just replace leaking primers with new ones. Lots of threads here on that one. When you prime your pump, do you open up the bleeder? You have to give the air somewhere to go. Also, have you replaced your fuel filter? It may be waxed or frozen moisture blocked.

Bleeder? I see no bleeder on the primer.

 

[amaurer]

Bleeder? I see no bleeder on the primer.

The bleeder is anywhere downstream of the primer - probably on top of the fuel filter.

 

[70sguy]

Not on an HDJ81 it isn't. No bleeder nipple.
1HD-T is not all that sensitive to bubbles in the fuel ala 3B/2H etc.
So as long as you have a solid stream of fuel coming out of the hose at the injection pump
fire her up, the injection pump will take care of the rest. It may sputter a little until it pushed any bubbles back to the tank via the fuel return line.

You can add a section of clear hose between the prime and injection pump. Obviously it's not going to be fuel rated hose, but it will work fine short term to help get your fuel issue sorted out.


I think your truck is telling you that you should move to B.C

 

[canucksafari]

No bleeder, same as that bloody Surf which took me nearly an hour to prime and start on the docks for a friend. As 70sguy says, pop the hose and pump until you get a clear stream of diesel. I filled the pump side hose using a small tranny fluid funnel to slowly dribble clean diesel into it. Have a few rags handy as it can get a bit messy. If you are not sure about the filter, then replace it. Make sure you lube the seal on the filter with clean diesel.

 

[T.Stanford]

The primer pump is not serviceable on an HDJ81 and costs $200 in Canada. Even though I live in BC... I have been struggling with a similar problem. As mentioned on MY thread there is also a check valve on the inlet side of the primer pump body which can cause problems.( mine was not "checking" and not opening fully to allow enough fuel for operation) I've changed out the primer pump body but still have intermittent problems . I've obtained new rubber fuel line and will likely replace them today. Even though I've changed the clamps, and the existing hoses look great, either air is getting in or somehow the fuel supply is being interrupted by a bad feed pump or "occasional" obstruction. I'm not sure how air escapes from the fuel system on this machine, but the Toyota service manual doesn't even mention the need for bleeding... just pumping the primer pump. John offers good advice in priming the system, the less air, the less of a pain that it is to get the truck running (well). I'm in the process of eliminating all of the relatively inexpensive fixes and see if I can solve this thing. Good luck and Merry Christmas, Tony

 

[huckthehaus]

Is the exhaust puffing as you are cranking? If not, no fuel, change filter, prime, crack the fitting open at the fuel pump to help expel some of the air, the rest escapes through the injectors as the pump builds pressure.

If you have grey/white smoke while cranking, you have fuel, but not enough heat. Check your glow.

Remove the bus off the plugs and check each one individually. Run a 12volt test lead off the positive on your driver side battery, and touch it to each glow plug. If it sparks on contact, it has some resistance and is still good. If no spark, its NFG. Also if I recall, this motor also has a glow screen on the intake like my cummins. it is the bigger plug on the intake manifold. i'd test that too.

If you're cranking and getting black smoke, you're getting close. Good luck, merry christmas
Dylan

 

[Wherlwind]

I've just had a similar problem with my 12HT. Warmed up the truck for my wife and left for work . It stalled and she could not restart and killed the batteries trying. It's been -35c here and colder with the wind chill. Tried starting it this morning after charging the batteries and cranks great but won't fire so it seemed like a fuel problem. I bled it at the filter and I noticed the primer pump leaks a lot of fuel while priming. There were quite a few air bubbles coming through the line. After bleeding it fired right up. Could air be getting into the fuel line at the primer pump even though the pump is closed tight. I do have a spare pump that I could swap in if that is the problem.
"It has been really cold here (avg overnight low of -27°C - windchills down to -45°C) so working on the truck is extremely difficult. My garage is not-yet heated. There are some obvious things I should check first but you have to realize how difficult it is to even hold a wrench with gloves on or how painful it is to hold one without gloves. Plastic breaks if you look at it wrong as well."
Exactly the same situation here finderscuba, I feel for you. Pete

 

[roscoFJ73]

I've just had a similar problem with my 12HT. Warmed up the truck for my wife and left for work . It stalled and she could not restart and killed the batteries trying. It's been -35c here and colder with the wind chill. Tried starting it this morning after charging the batteries and cranks great but won't fire so it seemed like a fuel problem. I bled it at the filter and I noticed the primer pump leaks a lot of fuel while priming. There were quite a few air bubbles coming through the line. After bleeding it fired right up. Could air be getting into the fuel line at the primer pump even though the pump is closed tight. I do have a spare pump that I could swap in if that is the problem.
"It has been really cold here (avg overnight low of -27°C - windchills down to -45°C) so working on the truck is extremely difficult. My garage is not-yet heated. There are some obvious things I should check first but you have to realize how difficult it is to even hold a wrench with gloves on or how painful it is to hold one without gloves. Plastic breaks if you look at it wrong as well."
Exactly the same situation here finderscuba, I feel for you. Pete

Air getting in through the primer pump has caused quite few headaches here even when they are closed.

The fuel just runs back to the tank and is replaced by air.

 

[finderscuba]

I'm wondering if installing a check valve in the fuel line between the fuel filter and fuel tank (closer to the filter) might at least keep the fuel from draining back to the tank. Any thoughts?

 

[T.Stanford]

There is a check valve already on the in nipple of the filter cap, you can't see it but it's there. If it's operating correctly, and there is no air leaking into the fuel line, the system shouldn't have any air problems. If your fuel is retreating from the filter toward the tank upon shut down, your check valve isn't working and/or you have air entering the system. An air leak on the tank side of the filter with a properly functioning check valve would not drain the entire system, instead it should start fine but upon using up the fuel contained upstream of the check valve it would run rough or stall out completely. It seems to me that if starting is a problem and the lines leading to and from the filter are empty a while after shut down, the fuel has retreated all the way from your IP back to your tank suggesting a faulty check valve and an air leak. Cheers, Tony

 

[roscoFJ73]

There is a check valve already on the in nipple of the filter cap, you can't see it but it's there. If it's operating correctly, and there is no air leaking into the fuel line, the system shouldn't have any air problems. If your fuel is retreating from the filter toward the tank upon shut down, your check valve isn't working and/or you have air entering the system. An air leak on the tank side of the filter with a properly functioning check valve would not drain the entire system, instead it should start fine but upon using up the fuel contained upstream of the check valve it would run rough or stall out completely. It seems to me that if starting is a problem and the lines leading to and from the filter are empty a while after shut down, the fuel has retreated all the way from your IP back to your tank suggesting a faulty check valve and an air leak. Cheers, Tony

I dont how good the check valve is supposed to be. I dont think it will stop the fuel running back if you have an air leak somewhere else.

Another thought . Have you taken the filter off and reinstalled it? These types are famous for leaking around the rubber seal between filter and filter head

 

[canucksafari]

A hydraulic check valve will stop anything from flowing back. However, that will not be your solution. The solution is to find the leak and fix it.

 

[finderscuba]

I replaced 4 hose clamps on the fuel hose. The one just under the firewall was really loose. Although this seems to have helped a lot, it's still not getting fuel right away. I'm now thinking a new filter/primer assembly or throw in an electric fuel pump. Since the issue only comes about after sitting overnight in the cold, I could wire the fuel pump up to a momentary switch and have electric "manual" priming. Or a low pressure pump that's on with the ignition.

Thoughts?

 

[finderscuba]

What is the fuel hose id for a 1HD-T?

 

[canucksafari]

You can buy diesel fuel pumps which only switch on when the fuel pressure drops below a set amount. Again, this is not your problem. Find the leak and replace what needs to be replaced. If you think it is the filter primer assembly then bypass it with a cheap inline filter in the middle. If it solves the problem, then go out and buy a new primer/filter assembly. You can stay with Toyota or go aftermarket. For aftermareket you need to know the correct fuel flow volume and level of filtration required. There is a fair bit of selection out there - especially for industrial and marine diesels. If the cheap inline filter doesn't show the problem is with the primer /filter assembly, you need to keep looking. However, either way you now have an emergency inline filter to keep in your tool kit. I have known people who have replaced all their fuel hose and piping before they found a small leak.

 

[Greg_B]

Walbro FRB-5 if you are looking for a pusher pump that will still allow fuel by if it fails for any reason.

You can pressure regulate to ensure just a few lbs pre injection pump, or if you are running additional filtration this will ensure the lift pump in the injection pump is not stressed. This is no substitute for ensuring all your fuel supply lines (hard and soft) are in good shape, and all connections are air tight.

When I install the 1HD-T into my FZJ80 it will be getting a pusher pump.

hth's

gb

 

[Tapage]

Greg I check on the walbro website the FRB-5 specs ..

aprox 45GPH and 8 - 11 PSI .. then found in eBay few ones that meet those specs but are ( looks ) diferent models ..

One thing got my atention and there are much more pressure fuel pumps with the same flow rate ..