Hard to start 3B, lots of cranking, white smoke

[deaddrift]

This thing was running fine until it wasn't...

When I reconnected the busbar I wire brushed the contact patch for each glow plug, top and bottom. I had run my batteries down trying to start it, and I used a battery charger to recharge them. They are fine now. The starter cranks normally and strongly, as far as I can hear.

All four plugs have continuity. Both my batteries are already grounded to the block, and it looks like it was set up that way at the factory.

Compression numbers, just checked (on a cold engine, naturally):

#1: 475
#2: 405
#3: 458
#4: 412

I ran the compression test again and got:

#1: 501
#2: 419
#3: 461
#4: 421

Not sure why the variance, but I think my compression is good enough to run this thing. I had all four plugs out while testing. (Each came out dirty, with a little oil on it.) I saw some smoke coming out of the glow plug holes between cranks.

Under normal operation previous to this problem, I could see smoke coming from the dipstick tube and from the oil fill plug when either is removed while the engine is hot. I have a pretty fair amount of blowby from the blowby tube.

I connected a clear plastic hose between the hard fuel line and the fuel pump, opened the pump bleeder, and pumped through. At first some large air bubbles came up from the hard line but they stopped after some pumping. I was not able to clear all the bubbles from the line; the last bubble kind of hid in the fuel pump while pumping the primer and then re-emerged when I stopped pumping and closed the bleeder.

I burn biodiesel exclusively and and have for five years. I have never changed the fuel lines. I was suspecting maybe air in the system but now I am thinking no. I have been considering buying a secondhand fuel tank cap (if I can find one) and tapping it with a Schrader valve to gently pressurize the fuel lines pre-pump to check for leaks.



How does one actually use the starter fluid?

 

[lostmarbles]

I've got the electrical test gear here to enable me to easily measure busbar-voltage and glow-plug-current-draw so I'd be checking those (if this was my cruiser) before finally accepting that my preheating was fully operational.

Measuring glowplug current is a foolproof way of making certain your glow plugs are working in situ during a preheat cycle.

However I accept that you may not have access to these things (especially the clip-on DC ammeter which was moderately expensive for me to acquire).

Sounds like neither your compression nor cranking-rpms are the problem.

When you crack the nut on the top of each injector while cranking, do you get a squirt (or white froth) of diesel? If you don't, then I think that would confirm that your injector pump isn't sending pulses of diesel to your injectors (which would make me suspect a fuel blockage or air contamination within the IP pump). And if you do get diesel squirting/frothing out strongly in pulses, then that should eliminate those possibilities.

With working/effective preheat, good compression, good cranking rpms, and fuel squirting from any loosened injector nut while cranking ...... I guess the only things left are:

• a complete blockage of the air intake system (highly unlikely)
• poor injector spray pattern (again unlikely because it would have to be occuring on ALL cylinders together)
• incorrect injection timing (again unlikely)

Sorry.. I'm just "thinking out loud" now really..

This has got me beat...

 

[cruiser_guy]

What you need to do is sort out if there is power at the glow plugs when the glow system is working. You need two people and a cold glow system to do this. One person to measure AS SOON as you begin the glow cycle and continue till the cycle times out while the other turns the key. If you have no power at the glow plugs (as I did when I drove up from Sierra Leone) you need to clean ALL the contacts in the glow system, not just the buss bar to plugs.

IF all else is good, compression, fuel etc. then you can give it a SHORT burst of 12v as I did when I was driving up from Sierra Leone to get it started. As others have said, you need to make this short and with a "cooling off" period in between as well.

 

[deaddrift]

Thanks for your help guys. Very much appreciated.

Cruiser guy, I am a real novice with repairs, but I am an absolute babe in the woods when it comes to electrical system diagnosis and repair. If you have the time to write a brief step-by-step description of your suggested procedure I would love to try it. I have a multimeter.

I'm guessing that I should simply have someone else glow the circuit while I measure voltage from the busbar to ground during the entire preheat cycle. That I can do but if there is more to it I'm not sure how to proceed.

For the preheat bypass, I'm thinking short jumper cables straight from the positive terminal (which battery? does it matter?) to the busbar for 3 seconds with key in the off position, then immediate turn to start. Is that right?



[EDIT]: cruiser guy I see that my first question was answered by you in your early post (jeeze, it was a MONTH ago) and I will try that again as soon as I have a helper handy. Still would like clarification on the bypass procedure so I don't fry anything. Thanks.

 

[cruiser_guy]

To check if there is continuity in the circuit set your multimeter to DC volts as near to 12v as possible (say 20vDC). Get a watch with a "seconds" display where you can see it.
Put the negative lead on the battery negative terminal and the positive lead on one of the glow plug tips. KEEP THEM THERE for the whole glow cycle.
Have your assistant turn the key to glow and see if you get a reading. It should go to about 10-12v for at least a few seconds before dropping down. Watch when you have voltage, what voltage you have and for how long. Keep going until the voltage gets to "0" volts.
Report back what your voltage readings and the times for each voltage are.
If there is no voltage reading you've likely got dirty connections somewhere or a bad relay. Voltage readings are not a "for sure" that you have good connections as you may have a severe drop of amps on a dirty connection but still pass some voltage. A DC ammeter (which you likely do not have in a capacity to measure the amps the plugs will draw) would tell you if your plugs are actually drawing enough amps to warm things up.

The following is at your own risk. I take NO responsibility if something goes wrong. This DOES work if you follow the instructions exactly and your only problem is the glow circuit.

You can also try starting by setting the key to "Run". Take a wire of at least 12ga or larger from the battery positive post to one of the glow plugs. Hold it firmly to the battery post and glow plug to make a good connection. If this is a Canadian BJ60 it doesn't matter which battery you use as they are in parallel for 12v but higher amperage.
DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE BUT A GLOW PLUG TIP (where the bus bar connects)!!!!! Touch something else and you'll make major sparks or worse.
Do not keep the wire connected for more than a five count our you'll be buying new plugs (remember they are 6v plugs not 12v. Toyota gives them 12v too for a very short time so it does work for a short time).
If the glow plugs are good and you have no fuel issues it should fire up right away.
I did this for 6 weeks on my drive from Sierra Leone and I did not loose any glow plugs in the process.

 

[deaddrift]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

 

[deaddrift]

The following is at your own risk. I take NO responsibility if something goes wrong. This DOES work if you follow the instructions exactly and your only problem is the glow circuit.

You can also try starting by setting the key to "Run". Take a wire of at least 12ga or larger from the battery positive post to one of the glow plugs. Hold it firmly to the battery post and glow plug to make a good connection. If this is a Canadian BJ60 it doesn't matter which battery you use as they are in parallel for 12v but higher amperage.
DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE BUT A GLOW PLUG TIP (where the bus bar connects)!!!!! Touch something else and you'll make major sparks or worse.
Do not keep the wire connected for more than a five count our you'll be buying new plugs (remember they are 6v plugs not 12v. Toyota gives them 12v too for a very short time so it does work for a short time).
If the glow plugs are good and you have no fuel issues it should fire up right away.
I did this for 6 weeks on my drive from Sierra Leone and I did not loose any glow plugs in the process.

I like your disclaimer, and recognize the spirit in which it was offered. It helps to reinforce proper procedures. Very nice.

Your procedure worked like a charm. So satisfying to hear it grumbling again (nice and loud due to my exhaust leak, still waiting on the new gasket, tips here are also much appreciated.)

BUT: When I tested voltage as you recommended I had a new result... 0 volts from the glow plug to the ground. I can hear the relays clicking but the current is not getting to the bus bar so I must have left a lead unconnected... maybe when I get that tracked down I can start this thing regularly (crossing fingers). This must have been my whole problem ever since I got the new glow plugs installed! Double I assumed that the connections were good after the glow plug reinstallation but I never actually checked.

I'm not 100% out of the woods yet but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, if I might be permitted to mix a metaphor or two.

Lostmarbles and Cruiser guy: I wish I could buy you a pint or two, or lunch, or something. If you ever find yourself in Portland Oregon I would be most happy to make good on this offer. Many, many thanks.

[EDIT]: Loose connection found, truck fires right up, better than in months. Looking forward to test driving the new injectors. And so the learning process continues...

 

[lostmarbles]

Yay!!!! Nice progress

 

[cruiser_guy]

hen I tested voltage as you recommended I had a new result... 0 volts from the glow plug to the ground. I can hear the relays clicking but the current is not getting to the bus bar so I must have left a lead unconnected... maybe when I get that tracked down I can start this thing regularly (crossing fingers). This must have been my whole problem ever since I got the new glow plugs installed! Double I assumed that the connections were good after the glow plug reinstallation but I never actually checked.

I'm not 100% out of the woods yet but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, if I might be permitted to mix a metaphor or two.

Lostmarbles and Cruiser guy: I wish I could buy you a pint or two, or lunch, or something. If you ever find yourself in Portland Oregon I would be most happy to make good on this offer. Many, many thanks.

I had the same issue when driving up but all connections were tight. I had a dirty connection at the resistor mounted on the intake manifold.

I was in Portland about 3-4 weeks ago. If I knew you were there I'd have been glad to lend a hand. I may be through again early in the new year.

 

[randynshoremn]

Can someone point me to the instructions (specific - NOVICE here) for installing the Wilson System. I have an 89 HJ61 with the 12H-T engine in MN USA. I had the engine pulled and rebuilt (my son fried it - don't ask). Now glow plug system won't work. Have SuperGlow system on 24 V cruiser (right hand drive).

THANKS
Randy
randynshoremn@me.com
(612) 670-4663 cell

 

[lostmarbles]

Can someone point me to the instructions (specific - NOVICE here) for installing the Wilson System. I have an 89 HJ61 with the 12H-T engine in MN USA. I had the engine pulled and rebuilt (my son fried it - don't ask). Now glow plug system won't work. Have SuperGlow system on 24 V cruiser (right hand drive).

THANKS
Randy
randynshoremn@me.com
(612) 670-4663 cell

But you really have an intake heater rather than glow plugs... is that correct?

(I didn't think any 12HT engines came with glowplugs.)

 

[Dieseler]

I would not try to Wilson switch a glow screen system its a totally different animal then a glow plug system.
There is no possible way to add a superglow system or glow plugs to a 12ht it is a different head from the common H or 2H which use a glow plug system.

You are best to source out a new glow screen and replace it....also it is a more superior system than plugs.

 

[bj40green]

Can someone point me to the instructions (specific - NOVICE here) for installing the Wilson System. I have an 89 HJ61 with the 12H-T engine in MN USA. I had the engine pulled and rebuilt (my son fried it - don't ask). Now glow plug system won't work. Have SuperGlow system on 24 V cruiser (right hand drive).

THANKS
Randy
randynshoremn@me.com
(612) 670-4663 cell

A 12 HT comes with intake heater system and not a super glow system unless it's not a 12H-T.


Rudi

 

[randynshoremn]

Rudi - Thanks - You are correct. I used the wrong words and I am a novice. How do I hook up an override system if the timer isn't working. Is there a way to hook up something like a Wilson Switch on the system I have? Any help is Greatly appreciated. randynshoremn@me.com

 

[bj40green]

Hi Randy,

I agree with Dieseler that a Wilson switch is not the solution to your problem.
Let's keep this thread clean. This thread is about a 3B with glow plugs.
I would suggest that you start a new thread with a title like: Need help with 12H-T glow system, and that we're going to help you from there.
First thing is to find out if your screen(s) are still alive.

Rudi

 

[deaddrift]

Update: Solved the glow problem and truck was fine for a year. Now all of a sudden no wanna start.

No smoke shows when starting or running. The busbar gets 12v at first glow stage and ~4v at second glow stage. The battery is strong and it cranks fine. The starter turns over but the engine doesn't catch; after repeating the engine would catch on the second try, then the third, and last, the fourth try. Starting it is equally difficult cold or hot and it doesn't matter if it's sat for a minute or an hour.

I'm thinking air in the fuel lines? But no rough running. Once it's started it runs the same as always.