Hard to start 3B, lots of cranking, white smoke

[Bandit_guy]

I guess you guys type faster than I do. Glow plugs are an easy swap.

Good luck with the exhaust manifold

 

[Sykoslug]

dual filament glow plugs...

I ran into a similar problem. I fried my new glow plugs by long and repetitive glowing. Turns out a failing starter was the issue behind the anemic starts. I purchased a set of these dual filament glow plugs so that i couldnt risk burning them out because of operator error. I do have a wilson switch....so if i hold the button down it will glow until i release.

Here's the link: http://www.etecno1.it/diesel-glow-plug-double-filament-p-331.html

A bit more expensive, but well worth it.
HTH

 

[cruiser_guy]

What you will need to do as well is make sure ALL the connections are CLEAN! Take some sandpaper and make sure they are all nice and shiny as you put it back together.

I was fighting with mine on my recent trip through West Africa. It ended up being a dirty connection at the resistor on the intake manifold. Cost me a set of plugs

 

[rustybucket]

At what temp is needed, for the glow plugs not needed to start the engine when cold?

 

[cruiser_guy]

At what temp is needed, for the glow plugs not needed to start the engine when cold?

I had a tough time starting mine in Africa when I had dirty connections on the glow plug wiring. 80+ degrees ambient.

 

[lostmarbles]

I had a tough time starting mine in Africa when I had dirty connections on the glow plug wiring. 80+ degrees ambient.

My engine likes glow no matter what the temperatures is too ... Especially for the first start of the day...

And it's ALWAYS been like this ... right back to when I bought it in 1981 in Perth Australia (where it can get quite warm occasionally too).

 

[deaddrift]

Thanks again guys. I am currently out of town on vacation with limited internet connectivity and am trying to source parts at a reasonable price. Anyone else have good words to say about these glow plugs? I have seen them on ebay but sykoslug is the only one on mud that I have seen running them:

http://www.etecno1.it/diesel-glow-plug-double-filament-p-331.html

Here they are on ebay for sale internationally:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Glow-Plug...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d41b34fc9&vxp=mtr

Curious about others' experiences.

ALSO!! If anyone has a line on an air hose, used in good condition or new, for my BJ60, then I need your help. A new one is $375.00 which is stupid. It is a piece of rubber. Mine is age-cracking which is not good. Part number: 17882-58070

 

[Bandit_guy]

Just looked at your ebay add. You need 6 volt plugs for you cruiser not 12 volt. The super glow system feeds 12 volts to a 6 volt plug getting super hot super fast and then drops the voltage to half and smooths out the start. The only time you would use a 12 volt plug is if you bypass the whole thing a install a wilson switch.

 

[deaddrift]

Bandit guy, my understanding is that the listed voltage refers to the vehicle battery set up, series or parallel. Though the ebay ad does not say whether these are the 6V 9.8 A plugs I need with my superglow system or not. Neither does the factory link...

Sent the seller a message inquiring. I will post the response if any. Thanks for looking.

 

[lostmarbles]

Just looked at your ebay add. You need 6 volt plugs for you cruiser not 12 volt. The super glow system feeds 12 volts to a 6 volt plug getting super hot super fast and then drops the voltage to half and smooths out the start. The only time you would use a 12 volt plug is if you bypass the whole thing a install a wilson switch.

Bandit guy, my understanding is that the listed voltage refers to the vehicle battery set up, series or parallel. Though the ebay ad does not say whether these are the 6V 9.8 A plugs I need with my superglow system or not. Neither does the factory link...

Sent the seller a message inquiring. I will post the response if any. Thanks for looking.

I agree with Bandit_guy that these plugs wouldn't work on a superglow system.

And I doubt the seller (or even the plug manufacturer's technical sales people) would know what we mean by "superglow" or "wilson switch".

(Sales literature for glow plugs is absolutely full of errors, nonsense, and bad advice ... especially on eBay.)

Having said that though, I have a feeling that these plugs are ideal for a 12V Wilson Switch setup (so I'm interested in wider feedback too).

And as far as your air intake hose is concerned, there is/was a mud member selling lengths of industrial hose for that (or a similar) application that appeared to work well. But I can't find the thread right now. As I recall, the hose was solid, and "ribbed" to allow bending. And there looked to be enough space between the ribs (as I recall) to allow the installation of hose clamps at whatever length you cut it to.

 

[deaddrift]

And as far as your air intake hose is concerned, there is/was a mud member selling lengths of industrial hose for that (or a similar) application that appeared to work well. But I can't find the thread right now. As I recall, the hose was solid, and "ribbed" to allow bending. And there looked to be enough space between the ribs (as I recall) to allow the installation of hose clamps at whatever length you cut it to.

I can't look at it now but if I remember right, the whole problem with the air hose is that the two ends of it are different diameters.

I am going to use silicone sealant on the outside of the hose as a temporary fix while I search for replacement options. I won't be paying $375.

Here is the response I got from the eBay seller. It does not feature any real answer to my query. Unless this 'dual core technology' is some kind of magic bullet.

My question: Need to know the listed voltage and amperage for these glow plugs. I know they are for a 12V vehicle but what is the plug voltage rating? For my application I need a 6V 9.8 Amp plug for my '85 Canadian BJ60 with a 3B engine and the factory superglow system.

Vehicles without superglow use higher voltage plugs that I am trying to avoid.

The response: Hi, these will work perfectly in your model, they are designed with dual coil technology, specificly engineered for Toyota application, this special dual coil allows the ET1 12v glow plug to work on all the Toyota voltages regardless of the glow system, from 6v all the way through the range to 12v, we have sold literally thousands of these plugs without concern or fault, the plugs come with a two (2)yr warranty.

 

[lostmarbles]

...Here is the response I got from the eBay seller. It does not feature any real answer to my query. Unless this 'dual core technology' is some kind of magic bullet.

My question: Need to know the listed voltage and amperage for these glow plugs. I know they are for a 12V vehicle but what is the plug voltage rating? For my application I need a 6V 9.8 Amp plug for my '85 Canadian BJ60 with a 3B engine and the factory superglow system.

Vehicles without superglow use higher voltage plugs that I am trying to avoid.

The response: Hi, these will work perfectly in your model, they are designed with dual coil technology, specificly engineered for Toyota application, this special dual coil allows the ET1 12v glow plug to work on all the Toyota voltages regardless of the glow system, from 6v all the way through the range to 12v, we have sold literally thousands of these plugs without concern or fault, the plugs come with a two (2)yr warranty.

I concede now that the dual-coil plugs MAY work on your superglow system Deaddrift.

My apparent change of mind is not due to this salesperson's blurb (because I've read similar before). Instead it is based on my new thinking that perhaps these plugs can indeed heat up as fast as 6V plugs (when those 6V plugs are temporarily fed with 12V).

It is my understanding that, compared to 10.5V plugs in a "Wilson Switch" preheat system, dual-coil plugs heat up faster (by drawing more initial current) and then stabilise at glow temperature (by tapering-off their current draw so that they can't be easily damaged by excessive glow-duration).

Hitherto... I did not think dual-core 12V plugs could match the glow speed of 6v plugs (when those 6V plugs are "over-voltaged" at 12V).

HOWEVER ...... having them "work" is one thing. And having a properly designed and reliable preheat system is another.

If you fit these plugs to a superglow system, then your

• 2 stages of preheat/afterglow
• current sensor
• preheat timer
• dropping resistor

etc

are all superfluous..

I think it would be silly to run a preheat system with such a lot of superfluous components and excess wiring.

Not only that, but your dropping resistor would be wasting electrical energy and dumping heat in your engine bay for no purpose during afterglow etc. (In fact, worse than that, it's only function would be to impair the operation of your plugs.)

So, I still wouldn't run these plugs on a superglow preheat system personally ...even though I concede they may "work".

 

[roscoFJ73]

At what temp is needed, for the glow plugs not needed to start the engine when cold?

IDI will always need some glowing unless the ambient temps are around mid 40c and the vehicle is standing in the sun.
They will start at lower temps ,say 20c.But the colder it is,the longer it will need cranking.
A lot will depend on the engine compression and the cranking power in the battery.

 

[rustybucket]

btw, I think I have the 12 volt version of these plugs in my 3b, which would explain why its hard to start. I heard 6 volts work best for th 3b...any comments?

 

[lostmarbles]

btw, I think I have the 12 volt version of these plugs in my 3b, which would explain why its hard to start. I heard 6 volts work best for th 3b...any comments?

Hi Rustybucket.

I'm sure you know a 3B engine can be 12 volt or 24 volt.

But it can also have left the factory with any of the following preheat systems:

• Glow controller
• Fixed delay
• Superglow

So without seeing any vehicle details in your signature line, for proper advice we need to know either:

• Your cruisers date of manufacture, model and the country where it was sold new (to try and work out ourselves which preheat system you have), or better still
• Whether it is 12V or 24V and which of the above 3 preheat systems it is fitted with.

BTW- This thread here enables owners to determine for themselves what preheat system they have (and to choose appropriate plugs by themselves too):
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...gs-should-i-running-b-2b-3b-h-2h-diesels.html


If you have a 12V cruiser fitted with superglow, then, while I now say these plugs MAY work, I'd actually still be very doubtful that they will really work because I still doubt they can glow as fast as 6V plugs (when those 6V plugs are over-voltaged at 12V), And I also still doubt they are really versatile enough (despite accepting they'll be more versatile than other plugs) to provide proper "afterglow" when handicapped by having a dropping resistor placed in series.

If you have a Glow Controller (ie. a coil of wire that glows red/orange fitted into your dash) then again I don't think these 12V dual-coil plugs are for you.

But if you have a 12V 3B with Fixed Delay preheat, they should work fine...

 

[deaddrift]

New glow plugs: Denso 067100-1680

Rebuilt injectors

Fuel is getting to injectors at engine

Engine will not start. No change in symptoms.

Any ideas? Should I be checking my compression? It was OK last I had it checked a couple of years ago...

 

[cruiser_guy]

Try putting 12v direct to the glow plugs from the battery. Do this for no more than a count of 3 or you risk burning out plugs. You can repeat after a wait of say 20 - 30 seconds. See if that does it. If it does then you have dirty contacts on the glow circuit (I had this problem on my drive up from Sierra Leone to Germany this past spring).

 

[roscoFJ73]

New glow plugs: Denso 067100-1680

Rebuilt injectors

Fuel is getting to injectors at engine

Engine will not start. No change in symptoms.

Any ideas? Should I be checking my compression? It was OK last I had it checked a couple of years ago...

Is the starter motor cranking the engine fast?With bad compression you get lots of smoke and very rough starting.

The compression has to be really bad before it fails to start.
Is your timing ok?


I would try some starter fluid in a can.

 

[cruisedeisel]

cranking speed

my cruiser was a dog to start up in the morning. make sure you have your ground wire going to your starter. aswell i put extra grounds off of my side poles on the batteries. the cranking speed increased drastically. one happy cruiser. cheers!

 

[lostmarbles]

As I understand it, superglow glow plugs are very easily destroyed on any engine that doesn't want to start because of the temptation to make successive starting attempts without any cooldown period between them. (The plugs overheat and consequently their filiaments become melted/open-circuited).

So I advise waiting say 5 minutes before having another go, if any attempt fails.

(And if someone has been turning the key off and on in successive starting attempts, I'd advise rechecking the continuity of each and every plug yet again.)

Also be aware that all connections with your busbar must be clean and electrically-sound.

I'd advise repeating your voltage tests at the busbar while someone puts it through a glow cycle too.

And if your preheat system still checks out fine with those new Denso 6V plugs, then I'd also (like the other posters here) move on to looking at "poor cranking speed" and to a lesser extent "poor compression" as being possible causes.

Like Cruisediesel, I found my original Toyota ground leads inadequate. So I ran one straight from my negative battery terminal to my engine and achieved noticeably improved cranking rpms as a result (and consequent easier-starting).

I've never tried starter fluid on my diesel. And I think that would be dangerous when you have superglow preheat, because you can't simply decide not to energise your preheat (unless you disconnect stuff) like I can with my manual preheat system. And if the starter fluid hits a glowing plug, it'll ignite instantly of course. And my memories of using that stuff on petrol engines in my younger years makes me consider it as a pretty ROUGH way to treat an engine. So the name "START YA BASTARD" on this Aussi starter fluid product is pretty appropriate in my view:

They should maybe show a toothless hill-billy holding the can as well...

But, if all other starting attempts fail .... and I really really want to hear the engine I'm working on actually run.. ..... Maybe...........