GX470 has rear electronic shocks? Yikes (2 Viewers)

[HomersCanyonero]

All this time that I've had the GX470, I thought the rear shocks were not electronic. Today, I went to replace the rear shocks with my OME 60004 shocks, but decided not to because I saw that wire going into the rear shocks. I was shocked to say the least (pun intended).

Previous owner replaced the OEM front electronic shocks with Bilstein coilovers. Shock dial button still present inside the GX470 for sport, normal, and comfort settings.

Question #1: Will the button just control the rear shocks since the front shocks were removed and are no longer electronically controlled?

I can't really feel anything when I move the switch around from sport to comfort, but then again I tried it on a smooth paved street.

Rear still has both OEM electric shocks and OEM air bags. My ultimate goal is to do what Southern Style Offroad did with his combo setup -- air bags inside rear springs.

Question #2: Do the rear air bags work independently of the electronic shocks?

I think I know the answer, but just need confirmation.

I'm not ready to do the spring conversion even though I have all the parts in the garage. I really like the ability to raise and lower the rear with the air bags. So far, this feature has helped me level the inside of the GX470 when sleeping on uneven terrain, lift the rear to go over boulders on the dirt, and lower the rear when attaching a trailer for towing. For these reasons, I'm not ready to give up the air bags and eventually will do the combo spring/air-bags solution.

Finally, my last question...

Question #3: Should I replace the rear OEM electronically controlled shocks with my OME 60004 rear shocks without fear that I will jeopardize my ultimate goal of the combo solution?

 

[JLee]

The sport/comfort switch controls an electric motor that's fitted to the OEM shocks, rotating the valve on the top of the shock. They are unrelated to the air system.

 

[langsen]

Question #1: Will the button just control the rear shocks since the front shocks were removed and are no longer electronically controlled?

No, it will be the same as it is now. If any of the shock actuators are disconnected, then none of them will work. When you turn on the car, the ECU does a self test of the shock adjustment actuators. If any of the actuators fail the self test, then the whole system is bypassed. If you want to have electronically controlled shocks on only the front or rear, you can put a resistor (can't remember what size) in the shock wiring connector for the non-electronically controlled shock to pass the self test, allowing the remaining electronically controlled shocks to work.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@JLee Okay, so air bags and shock controls are independent of each other. Good to know.

@langsen Thanks for the explanation. This means another mod if I want to electronically control the rears only. I wonder what setting the rears default to when one or more shocks are missing? I would guess normal setting.

 

[GXO]

I would just unplug them and upgrade. The stock shocks with a built truck don't really do much.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I would just unplug them and upgrade. The stock shocks with a built truck don't really do much.

Thanks for the feedback. I always struggle with upgrading parts because I want to keep as much as I can stock and only slightly modify some things that make sense for me.

Can you elaborate what you mean they don't do much...especially compared to the OME 60004 shocks? I am lifted 2.5" in the front and 2" in the rear with the air bag trick. So, just want more info.

 

[GXO]

They don't dampen as much lifted. They are valved for stock

 

[DRANGED]

You've (@HomersCanyonero) got what I was wondering about. I'm all stock but have been wanting about a 1.5-2" boost up front and researching ways to do that landed me on toytek; browsing their various options (coil over kit for 5100s, the coil over kit with 5100s, their "ultimate" kit, and the boss coil over) got me curious about a 5100 coil over front and stock rear. I'm curious how the ultimate differs from the 5100 kit, and the boss appears to have 2 different spring options, but I do like the comfort-sport adjustibility, I'm not quite ready to lose that yet...... but those are questions for a different thread.

So (as you have) a coil over kit with 5100s front, (set for some lift) to push the front skid up a scosh (does this necessitate a comparable bump stop spacing, (jump in to correct me Dan) or does the 5100 add shock travel over stock so it's a functional lift...I assume that's the case), seems like a decent way to go until the airbags give up the ghost...

So I assume you have a spacer on the airbags to give you the rear lift (is that the airbag trick?)?

I notice a difference in ride quality settings, but I wonder if it's disabled by not having the 4 inputs into the circuit for you... Or if it is changing, I wonder it's just indistinguishable in only the rear... plus pavement isn't the best test. . .

Other than the curiosities, how's your ride quality?

It sounds like Dan's saying stock shocks in back with a lift may not allow them to perform at their intent... So they're resting spot is slightly extended... so then they'd reach full extension too soon for the rear lift to be effective off road, is that correct?

 

[GXO]

Exactly. And the valving is now offset and not cycling properly.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Just some clarifications and comments for @DRANGED

I bought my GX470 already lifted and air bag tricked, so I only know my setup. I cannot compare to stock front or any other front setup. I've never been on another 470 to compare setups. So, take my input as being limited.

I have the Bilstein 6112s in the front with 600 lb springs. The 6112s are thicker shocks than the 5100s. The 6112s say they are 60mm which translates to 2.36" and I've always wondered if that's what they call a 2.5" shocks. The thicker shocks means more oil in the shock and it can handle washboard roads better. The 5100s are 50mm (aka 2") shocks from what I gather. Anyways, the 2.5" front shocks "look" beefier and suitable for the GX470. My setup feels smooth in the front on the freeway and offroad for mild and medium trails.

My airbag trick doesn't have spacers. From what I can see under the truck, the airbag trick was to put washers and nuts on both height sensors to lower then and make them think they are low, so the airbags inflate to get to the normal position which is now 1" to 2" higher than normal. From what I've read, you can control the "tricked" height by the amount of washers/nuts you use to lower the height sensors.

My electronic shock controls for comfort, normal, and sport no longer work due to the removal of the front OEM shocks. As people confirmed here, all 4 electronic OEM shocks must be present in order for the shock controls to be work. Moreover, as you guys have stated, the rear OEM shocks are no longer valving and cycling properly due to the lift.

Edit: From what I've read, Bilstein uses 60 mm to denote the diameter of piston inside the shock, so this is really the 2.5" shock when you measure the outside diameter. By the way, the Bilstein 2" shocks are listed as having 47mm pistons (which translates to 1.85" pistons). That's what I've read, but really don't have the actual specs on how manufacturers measure their shock diameters.

 

[GonzoShinyPants]

FWIW for those of you still stock or some adjustable control on the dampening, find a good speed bump (ie short/tall, not a wide low one) and drive over it slowly. At lease for the rear the difference is obvious in our truck, all stock suspension. On soft (Caddy style - too soft for me, though maybe ours are going) the rear bottoms out even w/out much weight. At mid setting it just barely does, and at firm it doesn't.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

FWIW for those of you still stock or some adjustable control on the dampening, find a good speed bump (ie short/tall, not a wide low one) and drive over it slowly. At lease for the rear the difference is obvious in our truck, all stock suspension. On soft (Caddy style - too soft for me, though maybe ours are going) the rear bottoms out even w/out much weight. At mid setting it just barely does, and at firm it doesn't.

If you can do a YouTube video, that would be great! My electronic shock controls don't work now. I need to figure out the resistor mod to see if I can make it work only with the rear e-shocks.

 

[langsen]

If you can do a YouTube video, that would be great! My electronic shock controls don't work now. I need to figure out the resistor mod to see if I can make it work only with the rear e-shocks.

I used 6.8 ohm, 5 watt resistors, 2 per shock; crimped 1.5mm spade connectors on to the resistor leads and plugged them into the wiring connector that connects to the shock absorber, then wrapped in electrical tape. I'll see if I can find the wiring diagram that shows which pins to connect the resistors to.

 

[helocat]

So (as you have) a coil over kit with 5100s front, (set for some lift) to push the front skid up a scosh (does this necessitate a comparable bump stop spacing, Dan, or does the 5100 add shock travel over stock so it's a functional lift...I assume that's the case), seems like a decent way to go until the airbags give up the ghost...

So I assume you have a spacer on the airbags to give you the rear lift (is that the airbag trick?)?

Dan is not running airbags in the back. He has a coil conversion, like coil conversion 1.0.

Spacers on airbags, dont end well. Airbags dont like the angles spacers will put them at in the arc swing of the rear axle. Especially old OEM airbags with lots of miles on them. Tricking the airbags have been around for some time, however again, old airbags dont like to be inflated then flexed in a different position they have been, vrs. the first 12yrs. Tricking the bags works for some, others however have them blowing at the wrong time. We have got lots of calls over the years "we are on vacation in X and my right air bag blew....what's it going to cost to overnight your conversion kit and a set of coils?"

It sounds like Dan's saying stock shocks in back with a lift may not allow them to perform at their intent... So they're resting spot is slightly extended... so then they'd reach full extension too soon for the rear lift to be effective off road, is that correct?

I think Dan is saying the small piston diameter and valve sizes of the stock shocks do a poor job providing control for a lifted and loaded truck. Also most of the stock shocks have been on our trucks since new due to their cost to replace.

 

[DRANGED]

Dan is not running airbags in the back. He has a coil conversion, like coil conversion 1.0.

Spacers on airbags, dont end well. Airbags dont like the angles spacers will put them at in the arc swing of the rear axle. Especially old OEM airbags with lots of miles on them. Tricking the airbags have been around for some time, however again, old airbags dont like to be inflated then flexed in a different position they have been, vrs. the first 12yrs. Tricking the bags works for some, others however have them blowing at the wrong time. We have got lots of calls over the years "we are on vacation in X and my right air bag blew....what's it going to cost to overnight your conversion kit and a set of coils?"



I think Dan is saying the small piston diameter and valve sizes of the stock shocks do a poor job providing control for a lifted and loaded truck. Also most of the stock shocks have been on our trucks since new due to their cost to replace.

Gotcha. That's a good summary. I'd hoped Dan would jump in and wasn't suggesting he had air bags, I know his rig is modded well and on rear coils. I reread my post and saw that wasn't clear so I edited my it to clarify that..

I haven't dug into the airbag trick but it seems like, as with most minimal mods, it's less than ideal for real use and moderately useful in general especially with older stock components.

Sounds like my now using my GX as I do will hasten the OEM bits' demise It looks to have been a highway queen for 9+ years of its life and now it's seeing moderate Moab use; old wear patterns are being asked to stretch. I may be in line for rear suspension sooner than later

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I just got back from a medium difficulty trail with steep hills around Bowen Ranch/Deep Creek in the Hesperia area in California. This is one of the more difficult trails I've done, but "medium" difficulty is my limit.

I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones whose air-bag trick is working. I bought the GX470 with the OEM air bags replaced a couple of years ago, so they are not original from 15 years ago. I'm lifted like 1.5" to 2" in the rear with the air bag trick (using nuts to lower the height sensors to over-inflate the air bags in the normal setting).

Anyways, it sounds like I should carry extra air bags ($95 for a pair of new Firestone air bags) just in case my air bags fail on the trail. I have the MT spring conversion kit in the garage including OME springs and Toyota isolators, but I probably should carry it with me. My goal is to have both the working air-bags inside the rear springs.

I will say that off-roading with the bags in the low position feels better than in the normal position with the air bag trick. I raised my rear airbags on the trail several times during my outing when going up or down steep hills. I would go to low on straight portions of the trail just to see how it rode. I liked it better in low. The ride wasn't as jarring as when in hi.

 

[GonzoShinyPants]

So, at the risk of inviting numerous opinions, I still have 100% stock suspension and am curious as to what people think is the priority for replacing the suspension components, since there are so many. Presumably I'd start with shocks and springs, and it seems many people do UCAs at the same time, but beyond that, is it a matter of replacing what's wearing out and/or damaged as you go?

 

[DRANGED]

So, at the risk of inviting numerous opinions, I still have 100% stock suspension and am curious as to what people think is the priority for replacing the suspension components, since there are so many. Presumably I'd start with shocks and springs, and it seems many people do UCAs at the same time, but beyond that, is it a matter of replacing what's wearing out and/or damaged as you go?

I second this.
Fully stock and it all works fine. My fronts are probably sagging but they're good. I could use some FSB bushings (KDSS arms and at the knuckle). My question (elsewhere sort of implied but not explicitly stated) is (and my mirror @GonzoShinyPants), if all's well but replacement shall happen. What's a good way to go. Sure it depends on use, but what are the pros and cons of say an OME on 600 or 650 springs? What are the pros and cons of Bilstein 2.5" coil overs? What are the pros and cons of say, bilstein 6112s (and what's the corresponding rear 1110?) and FJ coils? AFAIK, variouos aftermarket UCA allow for the longer travel angles of lifts... but aren't there a million Tacos out there on 2" leveling kits and factory UCAs? Did their bump stops get moved? what's the story with those lveling kits?
I'll back you Gonzo and help the chitter-chatter... I too want to hear stories and opinions of what's out there... and the reasoning.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

If you have money to burn or skills to fix things, then my opinion won't apply. I'm a fairly frugal and practical kinda guy. I like my GX470 to be as OEM as possible, but I do understand that there's things that can be upgraded to improve offroad capability and to improve looks.

On the suspension, if everything is working, I would fix the front first to lift it a little. I would go with new shocks and new springs. Something under $1000. You will lose the electronic controls on ALL shocks, but it doesn't really make a difference. In terms of which specific new shocks and new springs, you will have to do research. There are a lot of options. I would pick something that is adjustable, so I can start with a 1" lift and then go to a 2.5" lift when I'm ready.

If you do some offroad like me (mild to medium difficulty trails), then I would consider the 2.5" diameter shocks (beefier and more fluid for better performance on washboard roads). The spring load (if you don't add a bumper nor winch), should be at minimum 600 lbs. Don't confuse the 2.5" lift with the 2.5" diameter. This is kinda confusing because vendors advertise 2.5" coils, but they are talking about the lift/height not the diameter of the shock. Other vendors and members here talk about 2.5" shocks and they are talking about the diameter/width of the shock.

The Bilstein 6112s for the front are 2.5" diameter shocks and 600 lbs springs. They are entry level in my opinion, but only $650. I inherited these when I bought the GX470. The Toytec/Boss look real good to me. The Radflo look good too. Ironman seem good as well. Check out the prices, but they are a little more. At the top of the line are the KINGS, but those are in the $1500 range.

When you are ready to deal with the rear, then I would go for the hybrid spring/air-bag solution. This is where you do the spring conversion, but insert air-bags inside the spring. You can still raise the rear say 2" with the air bags, but you won't be able to lower it 2" due to the springs. I'm perfectly fine with OME shocks 60004 sport and OME springs 2895E. It will be a little harsh ride unloaded, but should be good loaded.

If you are not ready to do the rear spring conversion, then milk the air-bags as much as you can. In fact, a pair of brand new Firestone air-bags can be had for under $100. YouTube videos show how easy it is to replace them. Do this first and then mull over the spring conversion. If you put new air-bags, then you can also do the air-bag trick by lowering the height sensors to raise the rear say 1". Now you are higher 1" all around if you have new entry-level shocks and new coils up front raised 1" or 1.5" to level the stance.

The rear spring conversion parts and kit are under $400 if you go with basic springs. More if you go with a progressive rate spring which I recommend for the rear springs. The ride will be smoother unloaded with the progressive rate rear springs.

Once you take care of the suspension, then I would worry about the UCAs and LCAs. In particular, the bushings wear out at some point and make the ride a little harsher. If you can figure out how to replace bushings, then go with the polyurethane bushings for offraod performance. I wouldn't change either UCAs or LCAs if you only raise it 1" all around. I would only change UCAs if lifting 2.5" or more and you have bigger tires like 33" or bigger.

I wasn't able to figure out how to replace the bushings and I'm raised 2.5" all around with 33" tires, so I went with TC UCAs and Toyota OEM LCAs. Moog LCAs seem to be a cheaper and good alternative for the GX470. Of course, you can go cheaper if you can find someone to donate their FJ Cruiser or T4R LCAs. They fit. Also, you can go all out and get the TC LCAs for close to $1800.

If you replace your LCAs, then we found out recently that you might want to get the beefier TC CAM Tabs, but this requires quite a bit of soldering. The OEM CAM tabs are soft and can round out if you offroad a lot, thus messing up your wheel alignment.

On the wheels, I would keep the stock OEM rims, but this limits you to skinny tall tires up to 32" (like the 255/75/17s which are only 10" wide and fit on stock OEM rims without a spacer).

I would add rock sliders and you are set. You can probably up to medium difficulty trails without any issues with these mild changes.

 

[GonzoShinyPants]

Hi Homers, I've been reading a few other recent threads with a lot of your comments and I'll just say thank you for sounding all this out - there is a lot to know/consider! But I think your suggested plan here makes a lot of sense. I intend to build the truck towards more and more capability, but currently it's primarily a daily for my wife and 2 young kids. But this year I hope to get it off road on easy to mid level trails 3-4x. So I'm actually going to do sliders next just to get some protection and remove the running boards before I damage them anyway. I'm a big fan of having options, I would definitely do adjust front suspension where I could set it at 1" with the ability to change to 2.5"~ lift later on.

It seems like I will probably have to end up with a winch as I want to pursue trails where I might need that kind of recovery, so probably a bumper down the road, too.

I'm intrigued with keeping the rear bags (I think it was Southern Style Offroad that posted a kind of modified air bag set up to keep them) but don't know that I would...

So, part 2 of this is, when do people replace things like tie rods, sway bar (or remove it and is pan hard bar the same thing?), etc?

Thanks!