Additionally, please list a few things this superior vehicle can do that a 4Runner cannot.
GX460 vs T4R
- Thread starter bap5340
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LX470Quack
You’ve received clinics on the 150 platform, torque vs horsepower
Now it’s time for your next lesson:
Type “prestige pricing” examples into your search engine. Then read. Then look in the mirror, and come back to reflect.
You’ve received clinics on the 150 platform, torque vs horsepower
Now it’s time for your next lesson:
Type “prestige pricing” examples into your search engine. Then read. Then look in the mirror, and come back to reflect.
More excuses. No facts.
The USA market is WAY bigger, both for 4runners and for GX models than Australia. It's not even remotely close. The GX market in the USA is twice the entire Australia Prado market. And it's a small market.
And yes our 200 has 381hp. Your 200 has 268hp. 381>268.
Just like all of our land cruisers and all of our vehicles in every category. It's a different market where buyers have more money (median household income in the USA is about 25% higher) and lower fuel costs (about half) so more power is chosen over fuel economy. If gasoline were $0.59 AUD per liter that would be the equivalent purchasing power parity value to what it costs a USA buyer. If that were the case - the Prado would still have a 1GR. Fuel economy simply doesn't matter much to USA buyers in comparison when our fuel is half as expensive. The diesel engine is the result of a compromise of lower power in trade for higher fuel economy.
You're delusions of Land Cruiser name plate over physical vehicle attributes is odd. I assume you're embarrassed that someone called you out on your misinformation and now your pride won't let you accept that you are factually wrong. The 150 models are all the same vehicle. You can't establish a single fact that supports your argument. We know they share 100% of parts underneath. We know they are built in the same factory by the same people with nearly all of the same parts.
And they cost the same amount. This is another place you're simply factually wrong. If you adjust for Australia's import/luxury tax and small market price premium the price of comparable 4runners and Prados are essentially identical. When you Adjust for Aussie taxes, the adjusted price of a GXL would be about $39,000 USD, or right between a Trail 4Runner and a TRD Pro. The Kakadu would cost about $58,000 USD - at the low end of the GX lineup. And the base GX would cost about $34,000 USD - the same as an entry level 4runner 4x4. This is just like every other model in the Toyota brand. A Toyota Kluger Grande is the exact same vehicle as the USA market Toyota Highlander Limited Platinum. The Kluger is $53,200 USD. The Highlander is $46,600 USD. There's ~ 7,000 USD built into the Aussie pricing on the exact same vehicles. You can verify this by comparing other known identical models. The simple fact is that a 4runner costs the same amount as a Prado 150 when similarly equipped. Possibly a bit more.
Are you going to keep making a fool of yourself?
I'm tired of engaging you.
The 4.6V8 is a far newer, more refined and a significantly smoother powerplant than the ancient 4.0 V6. The 4.0 is now a budget engine for Toyota. The V8 will run more miles too, theoretically, of course there is always exceptions. The million mile Tundra was a Toyota 2UZ-FE. A predecessor. Also for s***s and giggles, does anyone aspire to own a mediocre V6....
My argument is based on build quality, refinement and durability as it has been the whole time.
What kind of R&D budget do you think Toyota allot's to the 4runner as opposed to a significantly more expensive vehicle in the GX and TLC Prado, a nameplate that is sacred within the company and respected worldwide? it's NVH levels, the quality and tactility of every button in the cabin. The layers and quality of paint. The final quality inspection. Little things like the double weather sills the GX has on each door. The final check points. The Engineering design budget. The factory lamination of the glass. 100s of these little details in research, design, engineering and constriction all add up and come together to make a superior vehicle. It's the sum of hundreds of minuscule superiorities and then the luxuries and refinements of top of it.
Toyota/Lexus doesn't charge nearly double simply for some leather and woodgrain.
Then the T4R also has the stigma of being a massive college fratboy deouchebag vehicle too, which I find amusing.
You can argue all you like. The T4R is the vehicle of choice the 22year old who can't swing for the GX or a TLC purchases.
You have no facts here, just moot conjecture and what you assume is a transferable currency conversion rate for a vehicle you will never get, because your market doesn't warrant it.
So your GX market is twice our Prado market....yet you have 300 million people to our 25 million and you're only buying double.... Per capita, we buy a tonne more than the US. Our 200 market is more than double yours too.
I haven't been discredited on anything though, you three are in a little gang desperately seeking each others support and approval of your entry level rigs.
I know we have a small language difference, but this is pretty straight forward I think. The USA market moves 150,000 150 platform units a year. Australia sells about 14,500. Per Capita Australia is slightly higher in the 150 platform. It's about a wash. Your GXL = USA market 4Runner. Same vehicle. Different skin. (Yes of course you mistakenly think they're different despite all of the evidence).
It' not a wash, for our tiny population we buy more than the US and anywhere else in the world for that matter.
Australia leads global Toyota Land Cruiser sales
Anyway, i'm out. You Frat pack can go play with your 4runners and look longingly at a GX next time you see one.
Let's go through it.
Both vehicles share the same identical parts underneath.
Both vehicles cost the same.
Both vehicles are made in the same factory, to the same standards, by the same robots and people, with the same parts.
Both Vehicles have the same sheet metal stock.
Both vehicles use the same window glass (USA FMVSS 226 requires the same type of glass in both).
Both vehicles have the same steering.
Both vehicles have the similar interior parts if similarly equipped.
The Prado 150 has a smaller less powerful engine than any USA model.
The GX460 has a premium interior and the most powerful engine.
Is there anything else? Seems like that sort of covers it doesn't it?
Yep, you are right. They are exaclty the same.
I can walk in to Toyota and buy a discounted 4runner for low $30s or I can go and spend nearly $70k for a GX and the only differences are some leather and wood. They'll even ride the same and have the same NVH on the highway.
Uh oh. You did it again.
67dba for both.
Cabin Noise Scores
2018 Toyota 4Runner | In-Depth Model Review | Car and Driver
I'll concede that particular point. I've been fighting this battle so long it's bound to happen.
But in all honesty, the T4R really is a plastic Bro truck. Just realised the GX seats 2 more too.
Except it has less plastic than a gx 460 (and lx 570). And the 4Runner comes in three rows as well.
Just keep digging, soon you’ll be in America
The problem is that you've never actually driven them back to back. We have. The experience is exactly what we've been telling you for days. They're the same damn thing with some small differences. They drive exactly like the data suggests. The 4runner is about 700lbs lighter and 35hp less. It feels lighter. The GX feels heavier. Power feels the same. The GX has more headroom, more comfortable seats, terrible Lexus infotainment, and some nicer luxury features. The 4Runner has more hard plastics, a weird positioning of the window controls, only a 5AT, entune that also sucks, and is IMO geared too high for ideal shift points. It's missing some features I'd really like to have.
A used GX is usually cheaper than a similar used 4Runner. I prefer to buy used cars but chose a new 4Runner because the resale is so high that new was basically the same price as used, and of the mix of offroad ability and highway comfort fit my needs better. I already have an RX and an FJ40 so I'm covered on both sides of the spectrum with something better on road and something better offroad. What neither does well is 700 miles, run the Rubicon, then turn around and run 700 miles back. It takes a lot more effort to put a GX in trail ready condition than a 4Runner. For starters just the bumpers and rockers all have to go. The 4Runners are already high clearance. Then there's the weight. 700lbs is a LOT of fat to shed to get them to comparable weight. Weight is the #1 enemy of performance. If there was a GX that weighed less, had a rear locker, and didn't take a ton of effort to source foreign rocker trim and bumpers, (AKA a v8 4runner) I'd probably have gone that way.
Think about what it would take to get this vehicle ready for serious trails.
As compared to this:
If going offroad is higher on your priority list - it's a pretty easy choice unless you're really itching for a v8.
A used GX is usually cheaper than a similar used 4Runner. I prefer to buy used cars but chose a new 4Runner because the resale is so high that new was basically the same price as used, and of the mix of offroad ability and highway comfort fit my needs better. I already have an RX and an FJ40 so I'm covered on both sides of the spectrum with something better on road and something better offroad. What neither does well is 700 miles, run the Rubicon, then turn around and run 700 miles back. It takes a lot more effort to put a GX in trail ready condition than a 4Runner. For starters just the bumpers and rockers all have to go. The 4Runners are already high clearance. Then there's the weight. 700lbs is a LOT of fat to shed to get them to comparable weight. Weight is the #1 enemy of performance. If there was a GX that weighed less, had a rear locker, and didn't take a ton of effort to source foreign rocker trim and bumpers, (AKA a v8 4runner) I'd probably have gone that way.
Think about what it would take to get this vehicle ready for serious trails.
As compared to this:
If going offroad is higher on your priority list - it's a pretty easy choice unless you're really itching for a v8.
The problem is that you've never actually driven them back to back. We have. The experience is exactly what we've been telling you for days. They're the same damn thing with some small differences. They drive exactly like the data suggests. The 4runner is about 700lbs lighter and 35hp less. It feels lighter. The GX feels heavier. Power feels the same. The GX has more headroom, more comfortable seats, terrible Lexus infotainment, and some nicer luxury features. The 4Runner has more hard plastics, a weird positioning of the window controls, only a 5AT, entune that also sucks, and is IMO geared too high for ideal shift points. It's missing some features I'd really like to have.
A used GX is usually cheaper than a similar used 4Runner. I prefer to buy used cars but chose a new 4Runner because the resale is so high that new was basically the same price as used, and of the mix of offroad ability and highway comfort fit my needs better. I already have an RX and an FJ40 so I'm covered on both sides of the spectrum with something better on road and something better offroad. What neither does well is 700 miles, run the Rubicon, then turn around and run 700 miles back. It takes a lot more effort to put a GX in trail ready condition than a 4Runner. For starters just the bumpers and rockers all have to go. The 4Runners are already high clearance. Then there's the weight. 700lbs is a LOT of fat to shed to get them to comparable weight. Weight is the #1 enemy of performance. If there was a GX that weighed less, had a rear locker, and didn't take a ton of effort to source foreign rocker trim and bumpers, (AKA a v8 4runner) I'd probably have gone that way.
Think about what it would take to get this vehicle ready for serious trails.
As compared to this:
If going offroad is higher on your priority list - it's a pretty easy choice unless you're really itching for a v8.
I have driven them both readily. If the T4R is really the better vehicle, and to you, it is, that undermines the entire mindset and design philosophy of the Lexus brand. Toyota would not allow that to happen.
Yes, of course going off road you're going to take the c. $35k truck over the c. $65k one.
If you want a tin can interior, ugly looks, dinosaur 6 cylinder, terrible seats, crappy stereo and slightly douchey impression every time you pull up you get a T4R.
As someone who is cross shopping many vehicles, 4 runner and 10-13 GX have been on my radar.
The main reason for steering towards GX is due to being focused on the used market where 4 runners have insane resale value and more likely to have been ridden hard as opposed to mall crawling GX460's who have lived pampered lives with frequent trips to the Lexus service center and more value you get going GX.
I'm also not escatic that 4 runners are on every block, seeing a built up GX is a head turner and that unique feeling is something I like.
The luxury features are a nice to have, but not required but since going GX the similarly priced 4 runners lack the KDSS which I'm looking for so its hard to go for 4 runner and I want a 3rd row for the growing family.
I respect both for different reasons and looks like they are both on the same platform, I don't think the sound deadening and extra weight of a Lexus means better engineered, 4 runners are known to last forever specially with that V6 which has been around forever its a reliable workhorse.
I can see the argument where the GX weight offsets its power advantages and puts both in the same performance level, but also want to point out that a V8 just feels and sounds better and will have marginally better performance and noticeable regardless of weight disadvantage. As seen in below websites the GX is listed at 7.0 seconds to 0-60, whereas the 4 runner is listed at 7.5 to 0-60. This performance difference will be noticeable and since the V8 has more low end torque the performance difference should be more apparent in your daily driving compared to mashing the pedal where the high revs of the V6 make up for the low end disadvantage - since most don't mash the pedal to get to speed the GX should feel more powerful at the lower revs.
Lexus GX Reviews | Lexus GX Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver
Toyota 4Runner Reviews | Toyota 4Runner Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver
If it wasn't for the insane resale value, lack of V8, lack of 3rd row on the KDSS equipped 4 runners, 5 speed transmission (hello 90's), headroom since I'm not a shorty i'd be going 4 runner no doubt.
I bet both vehicles can do the same in the trails! See you on the trails BRO's, my GX460 coming soon.
The main reason for steering towards GX is due to being focused on the used market where 4 runners have insane resale value and more likely to have been ridden hard as opposed to mall crawling GX460's who have lived pampered lives with frequent trips to the Lexus service center and more value you get going GX.
I'm also not escatic that 4 runners are on every block, seeing a built up GX is a head turner and that unique feeling is something I like.
The luxury features are a nice to have, but not required but since going GX the similarly priced 4 runners lack the KDSS which I'm looking for so its hard to go for 4 runner and I want a 3rd row for the growing family.
I respect both for different reasons and looks like they are both on the same platform, I don't think the sound deadening and extra weight of a Lexus means better engineered, 4 runners are known to last forever specially with that V6 which has been around forever its a reliable workhorse.
I can see the argument where the GX weight offsets its power advantages and puts both in the same performance level, but also want to point out that a V8 just feels and sounds better and will have marginally better performance and noticeable regardless of weight disadvantage. As seen in below websites the GX is listed at 7.0 seconds to 0-60, whereas the 4 runner is listed at 7.5 to 0-60. This performance difference will be noticeable and since the V8 has more low end torque the performance difference should be more apparent in your daily driving compared to mashing the pedal where the high revs of the V6 make up for the low end disadvantage - since most don't mash the pedal to get to speed the GX should feel more powerful at the lower revs.
Lexus GX Reviews | Lexus GX Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver
Toyota 4Runner Reviews | Toyota 4Runner Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver
If it wasn't for the insane resale value, lack of V8, lack of 3rd row on the KDSS equipped 4 runners, 5 speed transmission (hello 90's), headroom since I'm not a shorty i'd be going 4 runner no doubt.
I bet both vehicles can do the same in the trails! See you on the trails BRO's, my GX460 coming soon.
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95Fantasma80:
Motortrend in 2010 got 6.9 sec to 0-60. It will get up and move for it's size. It felt noticeably faster than my niece's '17 4R Limited
460s are relatively rare in my area. The '10-13's even less.... as less were manufactured.
Any model that has KDSS is going to corner better too on pavement. I really like the jack of all trades aspect of the 460 as it can even be a quiet & smooth long distance cruiser. I have heard the non-AVS models do ride a little bit rougher but I'm running the stock suspension so keep it on comfort mode on those stretches but usually keep on Sport as that feels better to me. I realize most may replace with aftermarket suspension but I'm gonna keep stock on there until there is a major problem.
I also like full time 4WD on-road. I drive in a lot of ice and snow in the winter and a fully locked 4WD on ice at moving speeds on the freeway is not the best combo for control. Far more steering control with a center diff that isn't locked up. Jack rabbit starts on wet pavement are another nice option for full time 4WD.
I know crawl and MTS isn't for everyone but easily added to "any" GX 460. Crawl could likely be done with just a couple cheap toggle switches if one doesn't mind going that route. It's all there and just needs to be enabled. Retrofitting a 4R is a lot more work and time for those options.
I've not compared body to frame suspension bushings but possible there are more or thicker on GX. The water repellant side glass is nice too in inclement weather.
Motortrend in 2010 got 6.9 sec to 0-60. It will get up and move for it's size. It felt noticeably faster than my niece's '17 4R Limited
460s are relatively rare in my area. The '10-13's even less.... as less were manufactured.
Any model that has KDSS is going to corner better too on pavement. I really like the jack of all trades aspect of the 460 as it can even be a quiet & smooth long distance cruiser. I have heard the non-AVS models do ride a little bit rougher but I'm running the stock suspension so keep it on comfort mode on those stretches but usually keep on Sport as that feels better to me. I realize most may replace with aftermarket suspension but I'm gonna keep stock on there until there is a major problem.
I also like full time 4WD on-road. I drive in a lot of ice and snow in the winter and a fully locked 4WD on ice at moving speeds on the freeway is not the best combo for control. Far more steering control with a center diff that isn't locked up. Jack rabbit starts on wet pavement are another nice option for full time 4WD.
I know crawl and MTS isn't for everyone but easily added to "any" GX 460. Crawl could likely be done with just a couple cheap toggle switches if one doesn't mind going that route. It's all there and just needs to be enabled. Retrofitting a 4R is a lot more work and time for those options.
I've not compared body to frame suspension bushings but possible there are more or thicker on GX. The water repellant side glass is nice too in inclement weather.
Well said.
