GX460 vs T4R

[rav8]

Two vehicles sharing the same chassis platform doesn't necessarily mean the exact same chassis parts, all that is means it that there will be architectural commonality.
All it means is that there will be some shared hard points/mounting points, construction/fastening methods, etc. but it doesn't mean they necessarily share the same exact parts.

How do you know all 150-series share the same exact frame?
Why does the 4Runner 4x4 KDSS frame not cross with the GX460 frame if they are the "exact same frame"?

I'd be curious to know the differences between 51001-35A61 (5th Gen 4R 4WD w/ KDSS) and 51001-60M91 (GX460) though, I've long heard rumors that the GX/Prado uses slightly thicker walled frame rails.
The difference in part numbers could suggest there is validity to the rumors.

Lots of folks confuse the term platform with frame. A frame is a tangible object that a complete vehicle can be assembled upon.

The TNGA-F platform is a category of vehicles Toyota produces assembled body-on-frame. Body-on-frame is the only shared characteristic that establishes that platform.

Vehicle descriptors: J (Land Cruiser, Prado), N (4Runner, Tacoma) and XK (Sequoia, Tundra) likely share many components but the vehicles are not, nor are they intended to be, the same.

 

[BC11SVT]

Just to address a couple of your comments, there isn't an "off road" or "trail ready" GX. The only options on the GX, especially for the pre '14 models are either base or premium.

Base, Premium and Luxury are the 3 trims.

PS.

 

[r2m]

Base, Premium and Luxury are the 3 trims.

PS.
View attachment 3849153

Agreed, but those trim levels were from 2014 and up. Prior from 2010 - 2013 there were only 2 options, as I mentioned above.

 

[Arailt]

PS.
View attachment 3849153

Yeah but that was basically just two add on modules for crawl control and multi-terrain select that is plug-n-play on any GX 460. Nothing special. There was never an "Off-Road" or "Trail" trim level for the 460 like the new 550 or every Toyota Truck/SUV has (TRD Pro).

 

[rav8]

How do you know all 150-series share the same exact frame?

They don't

These are both J150s:

I imagine the 3-door has similar mount points but that length really can't be argued. The frame has no bearing on what Toyota considers a Land Cruiser.

 

[r2m]

They don't

These are both J150s:

View attachment 3849456
View attachment 3849457

I imagine the 3-door has similar mount points but that length really can't be argued. The frame has no bearing on what Toyota considers a Land Cruiser.

Forgot about the 2 door!!

 

[BC11SVT]

Yeah but that was basically just two add on modules for crawl control and multi-terrain select that is plug-n-play on any GX 460. Nothing special. There was never an "Off-Road" or "Trail" trim level for the 460 like the new 550 or every Toyota Truck/SUV has (TRD Pro).

It also came with an auxiliary transmission oil cooler. But yeah not a raised stance or more off road oriented wheel/tire package

 

[BC11SVT]

They don't

These are both J150s:

View attachment 3849456
View attachment 3849457

I imagine the 3-door has similar mount points but that length really can't be argued. The frame has no bearing on what Toyota considers a Land Cruiser.

4Runner shares the same wheelbase as the GX460, so it begs the question why don’t the frame assembly part numbers cross?

What are the differences?

 

[rav8]

4Runner shares the same wheelbase as the GX460, so it begs the question why don’t the frame assembly part numbers cross?

What are the differences?

It's been mentioned previously that J-designated models are more robust. More durable materials selected and more reliable components chosen for the final product. The difference may be 0.002" inch in thickness of a crossmember. That may not seem very significant, but it seems to for LC engineers. You would have to consult drawings for the actual differences.

Thing is, Toyota determines what constitutes an LC. 4Runner enthusiasts won't like hearing this but if an identical frame goes under a 4Runner, it is still an N-designation. An LC (or Prado) is defined by the sum of its parts and Toyota's designation of. Stating otherwise is false.

 

[Hiluxforever]

J just means Jeep. They are very similar. I have a 2015 Base GX and a 2016 Limited 4Runner.

They are as close together as a chevy s-10 and a GMC S-15.

 

[Hiluxforever]

The GX460 frame part # is 51001-60M91 and that part number doesn't cross with any 4Runner frame as far as I can tell.

View attachment 3849087

View attachment 3849089

I wouldn't not expect it to. It has KDSS and the same front crashbar setup as the Limited as well as the same transfer case.

Should be its own part number.

 

[Jetboy]

Two vehicles sharing the same chassis platform doesn't necessarily mean the exact same chassis parts, all that is means it that there will be architectural commonality.
All it means is that there will be some shared hard points/mounting points, construction/fastening methods, etc. but it doesn't mean they necessarily share the same exact parts.

How do you know all 150-series share the same exact frame?
Why does the 4Runner 4x4 KDSS frame not cross with the GX460 frame if they are the "exact same frame"?

I'd be curious to know the differences between 51001-35A61 (5th Gen 4R 4WD w/ KDSS) and 51001-60M91 (GX460) though, I've long heard rumors that the GX/Prado uses slightly thicker walled frame rails.
The difference in part numbers could suggest there is validity to the rumors.

Shared platform definitely doesn't mean shared chassis. But in this case - they're the same. You can find the parts breakdowns of the frame individual components. The 4Runner alone has at least 6 different frame part numbers for the 5th gen. But the frame side rails are the same parts, the crossemembers are the mostly the same. The only differnce IIRC is the rear crossmember is slightly different. Even the air suspension mounting points and clip holders for the springs are on the 4Runner. But the rear cross member on the 4Runner has enough room for a 34" tire to fit and the GX is about 1 inch less arc so the tire fit is a bit smaller. The slight difference also causes a minor fitment issue when mounting the GX460 frame mounted trailer hitch on the 4Runner.

The frames are not different wall thickness. They're the same. You can measure them and I'm sure you'll find that they are the same. Although TBH I can't imagine there's any reason it would matter unless you think you're going to break the frame. It's a non-issue.

 

[Hiluxforever]

Both of mine have 5100s and Hakkapeliittas and full time 4wd, and drive very similar. The 4runner is more relaxed and the GX is more engaging but otherwise I have built both the same so we can be our own backup on trails, and it's effortless to go between them and drive them at 10/10s.

 

[Jetboy]

It's been mentioned previously that J-designated models are more robust. More durable materials selected and more reliable components chosen for the final product. The difference may be 0.002" inch in thickness of a crossmember. That may not seem very significant, but it seems to for LC engineers. You would have to consult drawings for the actual differences.

Thing is, Toyota determines what constitutes an LC. 4Runner enthusiasts won't like hearing this but if an identical frame goes under a 4Runner, it is still an N-designation. An LC (or Prado) is defined by the sum of its parts and Toyota's designation of. Stating otherwise is false.

This is nonsense. All of it. Literally - every single sentence is wrong.

 

[Jetboy]

4Runner shares the same wheelbase as the GX460, so it begs the question why don’t the frame assembly part numbers cross?

What are the differences?

The differences are the rear crossmember and the bumpstops. The air springs in the GX do not have internal bump stops so the frame mounted bump stops are different. They bolt to the same spot, but the GX frame mount bumps need to be longer to replace the coil spring internal bumps from the coil spring models. I can't remember, but the engine mounts are also included on the standard frame part and are likely different. But the J150 was sold globally with the 1GR so I'd guess that frame would be different from the v8 version or the diesel also.

EDIT - I double checked. They did use a different frame PN for the 1GR version. There's probably about 10 different frame PNs for various J150 models depending on engine and suspension.

 

[rav8]

J just means Jeep. They are very similar. I have a 2015 Base GX and a 2016 Limited 4Runner.

They are as close together as a chevy s-10 and a GMC S-15.

Agree on Jeep. I've also had both in the past and agree on similarities. I know it is time for a trim when driving the 4Runner as my hair starts to brush the headliner.

Pretty sure you can put an S-15 driver door on a same-year S-10, align and close it. Not possible betwen a 4Runner and GX460 of same year.

I love both but they are not the same.

 

[BC11SVT]

I wouldn't not expect it to. It has KDSS and the same front crashbar setup as the Limited as well as the same transfer case.

Should be its own part number.

It’s the frame sub-assembly that has the different part number, that doesn’t include all of the model-specific bracketry.

 

[BC11SVT]

The frames are not different wall thickness. They're the same. You can measure them and I'm sure you'll find that they are the same. Although TBH I can't imagine there's any reason it would matter unless you think you're going to break the frame. It's a non-issue.

I will verify this at the first opportunity.

 

[Acrad]

I have seen some random data indicating there might be something there with frame thickness between 4R and Prado ..but until we get someone measuring all the points with a micrometer it's all wild...wild... speculation.

•••• Hugely Speculative Without further confirmation:

• front frame horns, mid-section, and rear cross members
• engine bracing in anticipation of the diesel motors
• stronger steering rack mounting reinforcements
• More internal gusseting and reinforcements for chassis rigidity
• More rear frame crossmember bracing (Prado TX base may be more similar to 4R)

TRD models may also moot a lot of this speculation even if true...

The 150 series GX also had the 1GR-FE from '12-'17 in China

I look forward to anyone who can put to rest the frame differences either way

that being said I have traditionally thought... "same box spring...different mattress"...when I thought about the 4R to GX debate

I have rarely thought just the frame of a vehicle defined the copies. GM's badge engineering in the past was literally grille and plastic emblems. If I see an easy swap on barn door to the 4R you will change my mind...

 

[rav8]

I have seen some random data indicating there might be something there with frame thickness between 4R and Prado ..but until we get someone measuring all the points with a micrometer it's all wild...wild... speculation.

•••• Hugely Speculative Without further confirmation:

• front frame horns, mid-section, and rear cross members
• engine bracing in anticipation of the diesel motors
• stronger steering rack mounting reinforcements
• More internal gusseting and reinforcements for chassis rigidity
• More rear frame crossmember bracing (Prado TX base may be more similar to 4R)

TRD models may also moot a lot of this speculation even if true...

The 150 series GX also had the 1GR-FE from '12-'17 in China

I look forward to anyone who can put to rest the frame differences either way

that being said I have traditionally thought... "same box spring...different mattress"...when I thought about the 4R to GX debate

I have rarely thought just the frame of a vehicle defined the copies. GM's bad engineering in the past was literally grille and plastic emblems. If I see an easy swap on barn door to the 4R you will change my mind...

The difference may be 0.002" inch in thickness of a crossmember.

Agreed. Which is why I said may.

I think the differences lie in the end product. All J-models are 4WD. N-models are 2WD with options for 4WD. Passenger compartments have different floor-to-ceiling dimensions. Don't bring up something as simple as glass dimensions, because those don't quite match up either.

I did the rebadge because I live in a Toyota neighborhood and I've I've witnessed some of the on-road hostility towards Lexus like @Hiluxforever mentioned a million posts ago. I get the stinkeye from 70 and 90-series Prado bring-back owners that are local to me because I'm a Prado poser. Others think it's cool.

Not long ago, there was lots of hate over the LC250 being a 4-banger hybrid. Seems to have settled but what of GX550 and LX turbo-V6's and hybrids? Are they going to hear that Lexus 250's and 300's aren't LC's because they don't share the same 4-cylinder that the N500 4Runner and LC250 do, even if the 4R is in 2WD trim?

This reminds me of the 914 vs 914/6 arguments. I don't miss them.

Not arguing with you @Acrad. Thanks for the barn door remark, it would be hilarious watching someone trying to do so.