GX460 & GXOR B.S. thread (1 Viewer)

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Agree with no need for regearing if < 33" tires. I know it may seem stupid, but you may have to find that "sweet" spot with your right foot to keep it from searching for gears. Either a little above or below the posted speed usually does the trick.
But also as mentioned, a little tuning may not hurt.
 
What about the need to regear for a "light" 34" tire like the 34x10.5x17 KO2? They're ~55 pounds and narrower than a 285/70/17 so theoretically have some less rolling resistance. The 255/80/17 Firestone M/Ts are also on 54#, and the Wildpeak AT3W in the same size is about 53#.
I believe it's more about the diameter of the tire than the weight.
Think about the distance from the axle to the edge of a 30" tire, so the radius is 15".
Now consider that a 34" tire from the axle is 17". You have an additional 2" of torque. Think of it as smaller gears have more torque than larger gears, now apply it to tires.
It's a lot easier to do a "burn-out" with small diameter tires than large diameter tires.
Hope this makes sense.
 
Rotating mass is an impediment to acceleration - whether speeding up (more energy for the engine to get the wheels up to speed) or slowing down (more braking force required to stop). So, lighter tires will accelerate and brake better than heavier tires, of the same diameter, thereby reducing the need to re-gear to get your acceleration back. On flat ground on the highway where you aren't speeding up (or pulling a hill), there should be no difference (Newton's first law: an object in motion will stay in motion). Also the heavier tires will carry motion better during coasting - albeit at that same sacrifice of braking.

I personally run the lightest tires possibly on my rig - currently 46# Wildpeaks that are 32", I'll be upgrading to 285/70R17s but also in a P-rated tire which is ~50 pounds. There are lots of P-rated 33's in the 45-55# range as indicated above. I've had my P-rated 32s for 3 years no with zero flats. I can't stand a slow rig and want all the passing power I can get. And stopping power :).
 
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What about the need to regear for a "light" 34" tire like the 34x10.5x17 KO2? They're ~55 pounds and narrower than a 285/70/17 so theoretically have some less rolling resistance. The 255/80/17 Firestone M/Ts are also on 54#, and the Wildpeak AT3W in the same size is about 53#.
You quickly get into the weeds with this. It really depends on the engine torque band and where your new tires put it. For example, stock form in 6th gear at 75 mph we sit around 1900rpm and if you jump up to a 33" that brings it down to 1750rpm. Doesn't seem like much but then look at that area of the engine torque. 30.5" = 140ft lbs, 33" = 130ft lbs. Add your driveline losses, added vehicle weight, aero and it ends up making a difference. The upside for us is the V8 masks a lot of that. In my last V6 mid size the difference was more like 30ft lbs, so the need to re gear was much higher. It also helps having a 3.909 axle ratio stock too. Personally I don't see the need unless you're running 33" Metric Load or 34"+ any load. You won't see a huge gain until you have enough tire weight or large enough tires. The vehicle weight won't make a huge difference unless you are overloading it regularly.
 
One problem with very light wheels when off roading is side wall thickness.
Something's gotta give to lighten a tire up and it's usually the side walls.
I've seen too many times side walls getting bead pinched or punctured from rocks, cactus or anything on the trail, seen and unseen.
Although a thinner sidewall will give more flex when airing down and a larger "foot print". The sidewalls so thick on my old BFG M/T's which were LT's and even at 12 psi, they hardly looked deflated.
 
You quickly get into the weeds with this. It really depends on the engine torque band and where your new tires put it. For example, stock form in 6th gear at 75 mph we sit around 1900rpm and if you jump up to a 33" that brings it down to 1750rpm. Doesn't seem like much but then look at that area of the engine torque. 30.5" = 140ft lbs, 33" = 130ft lbs. Add your driveline losses, added vehicle weight, aero and it ends up making a difference. The upside for us is the V8 masks a lot of that. In my last V6 mid size the difference was more like 30ft lbs, so the need to re gear was much higher. It also helps having a 3.909 axle ratio stock too. Personally I don't see the need unless you're running 33" Metric Load or 34"+ any load. You won't see a huge gain until you have enough tire weight or large enough tires. The vehicle weight won't make a huge difference unless you are overloading it regularly.
It does make a big difference towing. I'm in a 470 with slightly different gears but the 3.73/A750F combo makes it very difficult to tow our camper at 65 mph (ideal speed for traffic/safety/getting somewhere). In 5th gear this is something like 1,800 rpm which is too far down the torque curve and won't work on anything but flat ground. In 4th gear it's something like 2,700 rpm and pulls great, but gets crappy fuel economy. 2,200-2,300 rpm would be perfect, which I should be able to get with 4.56's and 33s. The alternative is to pull it at 70+ mph and get into that torque curve, but that also kills fuel economy and is faster than I want to tow for safety reasons on most roads.
 
One problem with very light wheels when off roading is side wall thickness.
Something's gotta give to lighten a tire up and it's usually the side walls.
I've seen too many times side walls getting bead pinched or punctured from rocks, cactus or anything on the trail, seen and unseen.
Although a thinner sidewall will give more flex when airing down and a larger "foot print". The sidewalls so thick on my old BFG M/T's which were LT's and even at 12 psi, they hardly looked deflated.
Has not been a problem at all with my Wildpeaks. They are on the "heavier" side of the P-rated AT tires. We have lots of sharp chert and volcanic rocks around here as which are silica-rich, very hard, and great at slicing tires. But these Wildpeaks handle it fine. I wouldn't run the Rubicon on P-rated tires but they've far exceeded my expectations. I have 40K on them now, they'll get replaced next year at 45-50K as I like a little deeper tread, but I think they'd make it to 55K no problem.

I did slice sidewalls when off-roading with Yokohama Geoloandar AT-S tires on my old Subaru. I think the Wildpeaks just have a really tough and well-designed sidewall.
 
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It does make a big difference towing. I'm in a 470 with slightly different gears but the 3.73/A750F combo makes it very difficult to tow our camper at 65 mph (ideal speed for traffic/safety/getting somewhere). In 5th gear this is something like 1,800 rpm which is too far down the torque curve and won't work on anything but flat ground. In 4th gear it's something like 2,700 rpm and pulls great, but gets crappy fuel economy. 2,200-2,300 rpm would be perfect, which I should be able to get with 4.56's and 33s. The alternative is to pull it at 70+ mph and get into that torque curve, but that also kills fuel economy and is faster than I want to tow for safety reasons on most roads.
Yeah, but you only have 5 gears :) and if you don't have VVTi you are also even lower. Probably closer to a modern V6 than a V8 in power band. But either way there are two ways to solve it: Increase your low end torque or increase the RPM.
 
Yeah, but you only have 5 gears :) and if you don't have VVTi you are also even lower. Probably closer to a modern V6 than a V8 in power band. But either way there are two ways to solve it: Increase your low end torque or increase the RPM.
I have VVTI, long-tube headers, custom catback exhaust, CAI, and a tune. It runs waaaaay better than it did stock. I am betting my 2UZ is putting out as much horsepower as a stock 1UR with a fair amount more torque given the engines were only 9 ft/lbs apart stock-to-stock and how significant the power differences were with my mods. But it still does not make enough power to tow a 4,000# camper comfortable at 1,800 rpm.
 
At 70mph on flat ground with 35x12.5 tires I’m below 2,000 rpm. Definitly will be re gearing when my wallet allows. But honestly just from a driving around standpoint it’s not as bad as I expected when moving up to 35s in terms of power, but I have a light foot.
 
Has not been a problem at all with my Wildpeaks. They are on the "heavier" side of the P-rated AT tires. We have lots of sharp chert and volcanic rocks around here as which are silica-rich, very hard, and great at slicing tires. But these Wildpeaks handle it fine. I wouldn't run the Rubicon on P-rated tires but they've far exceeded my expectations. I have 40K on them now, they'll get replaced next year at 45-50K as I like a little deeper tread, but I think they'd make it to 55K no problem.

I did slice sidewalls when off-roading with Yokohama Geoloandar AT-S tires on my old Subaru. I think the Wildpeaks just have a really tough and well-designed sidewall.
Ha-ha-ha!! You'll be getting rid of your Wildpeaks when they're about their lightest weight being worn down!! LOL!
 
Did you have to re-gear? I am running 265/65/18 and I am seeing my GX having to downshift more frequently than before, even with the slightly larger diameter. Doesn't help that I have added a bunch of weight with the roof rack, sliders, bumper, winch, etc
On the 255/80/17 no regear. I find my foot to be much more smoother than cruise control. So far I have added a front bumper, winch and rear bumper. My combined weight up front is ~110lbs and the rear is ~50lbs. (Third row and oem tow hitch removed). I still have to add in the budbuilt skids which will add 190lbs.

I would love to do 35's but re gear is expensive and the added weight ~10-20lbs per wheel can really make it feel sluggish
 
I have VVTI, long-tube headers, custom catback exhaust, CAI, and a tune. It runs waaaaay better than it did stock. I am betting my 2UZ is putting out as much horsepower as a stock 1UR with a fair amount more torque given the engines were only 9 ft/lbs apart stock-to-stock and how significant the power differences were with my mods. But it still does not make enough power to tow a 4,000# camper comfortable at 1,800 rpm.

Both my GX470 and GX460 need to be right around 3k rpm to tow our camper at 65-70mph, but I am close to 5k lbs loaded up and have a hybrid camper with a very large, flat frontal area. When I try towing in the GX460 in 5th, which is right around that 2300rpm mark if I remember correctly, it doesn't have enough power so I drop down to 4th. Towing with Toyota trucks is always going to suck gas...well maybe except for the new Tundra which seems to be a much better tow rig.
 
Both my GX470 and GX460 need to be right around 3k rpm to tow our camper at 65-70mph, but I am close to 5k lbs loaded up and have a hybrid camper with a very large, flat frontal area. When I try towing in the GX460 in 5th, which is right around that 2300rpm mark if I remember correctly, it doesn't have enough power so I drop down to 4th. Towing with Toyota trucks is always going to suck gas...well maybe except for the new Tundra which seems to be a much better tow rig.
Ours is a low-profile collapsible and not really any higher than the GX. A 5K loaded normal camper would definitely be a bigger effort to tow! I can get 13-14 mpg towing ours on 2-lane backroads when I'm averaging 55 mpg or so and taking it easy. On the interstate it's more like 11.5 mpg.
 
If you're doing that kind of off roading, you should be around 12 - 15 psi.
My point was making sure to use ATRAC and have your center diff locked and you should be good.

I air down for trails, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to air down for B roads as it would take 10 minutes to air back up and they are usually separated by enough other roads that you would not want to drive at the low of pressure. So they are a bit of a compromise. They also are usually between 1/4 to half a mile long and there are not very many complexes of B roads yet.

They are still kind of a new thing in Iowa and they are clueless that they could turn them into something for tourism like other states have.

Also they are mostly dirt and clay so almost no puncture risk.
 
My point was making sure to use ATRAC and have your center diff locked and you should be good.

I air down for trails, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to air down for B roads as it would take 10 minutes to air back up and they are usually separated by enough other roads that you would not want to drive at the low of pressure. So they are a bit of a compromise. They also are usually between 1/4 to half a mile long and there are not very many complexes of B roads yet.

They are still kind of a new thing in Iowa and they are clueless that they could turn them into something for tourism like other states have.

Also they are mostly dirt and clay so almost no puncture risk.
Yup, I'm always struggling whether or not to air down for how long I'll be on a trail. My wife usually wants me to for the sake of comfort. And it shouldn't bother me since I have two really fast inflation systems, my ARB Twin and an air tank.
 
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On the 255/80/17 no regear. I find my foot to be much more smoother than cruise control. So far I have added a front bumper, winch and rear bumper. My combined weight up front is ~110lbs and the rear is ~50lbs. (Third row and oem tow hitch removed). I still have to add in the budbuilt skids which will add 190lbs.

I would love to do 35's but re gear is expensive and the added weight ~10-20lbs per wheel can really make it feel sluggish
Toyota cruise is just aggressive as hell. Never had a truck before the taco or the GX that would go 5-6mph over the desired cruise setting before it would upshift. Frustrating.
 
Toyota cruise is just aggressive as hell. Never had a truck before the taco or the GX that would go 5-6mph over the desired cruise setting before it would upshift. Frustrating.
Yup. I’m so used to my Mercedes cruise control being so smooth and seamless. Granted they actually have power to move themselves
 
Toyota cruise is just aggressive as hell. Never had a truck before the taco or the GX that would go 5-6mph over the desired cruise setting before it would upshift. Frustrating.
The problem is the algorithms on regular cruise are predictive and can't factor in hills and so forth properly. It basically sets a range that if you go under desired speed by X amount then you will add torque to achieve set speed, but on the other hand overspeed can't do anything on a downhill without active braking. Some other manufacturers allow a lot more underspeed which results in even more overspeed. The feedback loop isn't the best and it depends if they are looking at output shaft speed or wheel speed. Wheel speed is more accurate but older generations are not torque secure sensors meaning they can't use it per CARB regulations. And most newer vehicles with radar cruise or adaptive will brake for you if you do overspeed which results in changing the brakes more often. It's a complicated system lol. I drive a lot of various vehicles for my job and can attest that the Lexus is one of the better systems for a basic non-adaptive cruise control. It does what it is supposed to, but some people prefer more gradual control rather than reactive. My prior vehicle had a slow to react system and imo it was worse than a more reactive one. Both end up overspeed, just one doesn't downshift when you request it. Likely you could improve a lot of this with trans schedule changes since your cruise control is just a torque request PID and the reason it will or won't downshift is if you request enough torque. Just need to update the thresholds to get a smoother performance. They are set high for each gear for better fuel economy so you don't shift as frequently meaning you need to dig deeper into the pedal to get a downshift.
 

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