Greetings and wheel question BJ60 -> HDJ81

[83bj60]

Hello Folks,

It's been a very long time since I've participated in a Landcruiser discussion so please bear with me if I've become rusty like my Old Faithful!!!

To those who don't know me, I used to be on the DTLC mailing list (which I believe is now defunct) and I've been a cruiser owner for decades.

After 23 years of faithful, trouble free service on 600,000 km of rough Quebec roads my old faitful '83BJ60 is finally about to get its well deserved retirement, to be replaced with a sparkling new 15 year old HDJ81 VX LTD workhorse

I won't get into details at this time; it's been a long labour of love for all involved, and I don't want to rush prematurely into excitement as we're still waiting for some documents before it can actually be plated, but it finally arrived after many months of waiting and for the first time this week, I've been able to actually see it and touch it!

What an incredible vehicle!

Anyway, the only thing it needs is winter tires. The tires it came with are HUGE compared to those on the BJ60 (285/75 R16 versus 235/75 R15). Since I've got excellent 2 winter old Studded Hakkas on the OEM BJ60 steel rims I wondered if they would fit so I checked and apart from the huge size difference (4 inches smaller in diameter!) they seem to fit perfectly

My question to the experts is: Can I actually run these small tires on this truck without problems? Will it seriously affect the speedo and RPMs? Any bearing issues to be aware of? or should I forget about it and get new 255/85 R16 winter tires? The existing tires are 285/75 R16 Bridgestone Dueler A/Ts on BERG rims.

I haven't gotten my manual yet and have been overwhelmed with everything this truck has and am still in the discovery phase so please bear with me as I adjust, I may be asking quite a few seemingly dumb questions in the following weeks!!!

To the old hands who remember my nickname from my email address from the DTLC list, pleased to see you're still around


Chris C.
'83BJ60 "Old Faithful" (Marathon Runner's well deserved title after all these years!)
91HDJ81 (waiting to pass inspection)

 

[denis]

Hey Christophe welcome aboard.
What will be marathon runner's occupation during retirement ? Could it possibly push it to the 1million mark ?
I don't see any reason the 235 tires wouldn't work on the 80 unless you have a lot of highway driving where the revs are going to be a pita. You could finish them off before you buy a new bigger set or sell them if you can and start with a better size right away.
The bearings are going to laugh at the 235s you'll be plenty safe there. 255/85 is a great (perfect) fit for a 80 though.

 

[83bj60]

Hey Christophe welcome aboard.

Denis Longpré? Denis Decoster? The suspense is gnawing me inside!!!

What will be marathon runner's occupation during retirement ? Could it possibly push it to the 1million mark ?

The motor, quite possibly with a good injector job, because it never had any and it's hardly bruning any oil, but the frame and body mounts are hopeless, it needs new speings, new shcks, new stabiliser bar rubbers, new fuels tank straps, new floor, new top back door, new diff oil seals, tranny oil seals, new muffler, oh and new EDIC controller and possibly motor and new brakes and master cylinder... Basically won't die, but needs lots of work to the point where I figure it's better to retire it and salvage parts at this point...

I don't see any reason the 235 tires wouldn't work on the 80 unless you have a lot of highway driving where the revs are going to be a pita. You could finish them off before you buy a new bigger set or sell them if you can and start with a better size right away.

Do you know what the factory tire size is for an HDJ81? If I get new rubber I would like to avoid speedo and tach problems.

This week crappy tire has Dunlop RV winter tires in 255/85 R16 for 133.49 each down from, I'm told, over $300 each! Have an opinion on these? It's a special order item so I couldn't see / feel any, but I'd much prefer a lighter, grippier passenger tire tahn a heavy, stiff truck tire. OTOH, the roads are so incredibly bad where I am that invariably one in the set gets out of round in failry short order.

The bearings are going to laugh at the 235s you'll be plenty safe there. 255/85 is a great (perfect) fit for a 80 though.

Yes, from my calculation the 285/75R16 has about the same height as a 255/85R16...

Thanks for your input, man!

Christophe

 

[denis]

Denis Longpré? Denis Decoster? The suspense is gnawing me inside!!!

Never heard of Longpré

The motor, quite possibly with a good injector job, because it never had any and it's hardly bruning any oil, but the frame and body mounts are hopeless, it needs new speings, new shcks, new stabiliser bar rubbers, new fuels tank straps, new floor, new top back door, new diff oil seals, tranny oil seals, new muffler, oh and new EDIC controller and possibly motor and new brakes and master cylinder... Basically won't die, but needs lots of work to the point where I figure it's better to retire it and salvage parts at this point...

That's your call, maybe it could have a second life of some sort ? You sounded like you had a great attachment to that truck

Do you know what the factory tire size is for an HDJ81? If I get new rubber I would like to avoid speedo and tach problems.

In Europe it had 205/80R16s or 255/75R15s, or was that 30/31x10.5x15, and 265/70R16 depending on the model year and trim.

This week crappy tire has Dunlop RV winter tires in 255/85 R16 for 133.49 each down from, I'm told, over $300 each! Have an opinion on these? It's a special order item so I couldn't see / feel any, but I'd much prefer a lighter, grippier passenger tire tahn a heavy, stiff truck tire.

The 80 series is not really a passenger car anymore IMO. The light commercial tires should be OK, you don't have to inflate them the 70psi anyway. I know nothing about the dunlop RV winter though.

OTOH, the roads are so incredibly bad where I am that invariably one in the set gets out of round in failry short order.



Yes, from my calculation the 285/75R16 has about the same height as a 255/85R16...

Thanks for your input, man!

Christophe

I have driven 80s with both sizes and it never feels short on power if that helps. Maybe if you were towing a lot and mountain driving all the time the story might be slightly different and could justify the coice of a 31er.

 

[roscoFJ73]

My question to the experts is: Can I actually run these small tires on this truck without problems? Will it seriously affect the speedo and RPMs? Any bearing issues to be aware of? or should I forget about it and get new 255/85 R16 winter tires? The existing tires are 285/75 R16 Bridgestone Dueler A/Ts on BERG rims.

You got a nice vehicle,give it the tyres it deserves. The torque of the 1HD T is designed to push those big wheels around.
4 inches in diameter is 12.5 inches i in circumference,over 10% difference.

Sell the others and put the money towards some new winter tyres and you are off to a good start

Oh and welcome to MUD

 

[83bj60]

Never heard of Longpré

That's your call, maybe it could have a second life of some sort ? You sounded like you had a great attachment to that truck

I do! It's still my daily driver!... But at this point, there is so much stuff to do on it, it's just no worth it... Well, maybe not, but I simply odn't have the time, eneregy or space to do anything to it. The frame is gone, man! The back end is simply sitting on the frame, the back end body mounts are totally gone... Clunk-clunk at every road bump!

In Europe it had 205/80R16s or 255/75R15s, or was that 30/31x10.5x15, and 265/70R16 depending on the model year and trim.

So it would seem the factory size would be around the same as on the old BJ60 (235/75R15), and the new beast indeed has oversize rims and tires...

The 80 series is not really a passenger car anymore IMO. The light commercial tires should be OK, you don't have to inflate them the 70psi anyway. I know nothing about the dunlop RV winter though.

I did some research and it seems those are pretty much bottom end in all respect so I'll pass. I don't really want to get Blizzaks which are one of the best because with 5 months of cold weather, snow and ice they wouldn't last more than two winters before getting to the hard compound. In may stick to my studded 235/75R15 hakkas for now, they've been quite good (although not has grippy as the studdless yokohama ice tires my wife put on her tercel last year, forget the brand) and they do last longer than most, but their grip, even studded, does go down noticeably after the first year.

The trouble is that in the size I want for the new trruck (255/85R16), I have not found a dedicated ice and snow tire so far, and most 235/75/R15 tires available are LT tires with NO siping, big rubber blocks that have inferior traction on ice or hard packed snow of the kind we have here on our roads in winter. (there is no such thing as dry pavement for 5 months out of the year for the tortuous 5 km to get to the main highway).

Don't take me wrong, the Hakkas have been fine, but at the end of the second year I could feel a reduction in grip already. Seems that most ice/snow tires are great for a while but quicky lose performance. Also, out of a set, I got twice one that got a bit out of round after a while, causing vibration.

So you see I am still looking for the ideal tire for our Quebec country road winter conditions...

 

[83bj60]

You got a nice vehicle,give it the tyres it deserves. The torque of the 1HD T is designed to push those big wheels around.
4 inches in diameter is 12.5 inches i in circumference,over 10% difference.

Sell the others and put the money towards some new winter tyres and you are off to a good start

Oh and welcome to MUD

Thanks for your welcome

Are you saying the big tires are stock or close to stock size? I looked at tire sizes for the US spec FJ80, and it said 235/75/R15 (1991 model year). Is there such a big difference with the JDM market HDJ81 (presumably it's pretty much the same you get in OZ)?

I'm just a bit stumped because I don't have the truck nearby and haven't had a look at the japanese documention yet, and would have liked to research tires while I wait for the customs papers.

Anyway, the problem is to find good tires for the ice and hard packed snow we have on our roads here. We have soft greasy snow only during storms, the rest of the time it's that slick hard stuff, and that stuff stays on the roads between december and end of april.

Right now we already have two inches on the ground and it looks like it's going to stay for a few days. fortunately the roadfs are still dry. What bothers me is in a few days the first dumpings of salt and sand is going to start, and I can't drive the new truck to a garage to have an oil treatment made.

Thanks for your input!
Chris

 

[denis]

I can't help with your tire choice unfortunately, around here I would feel lucky if we had 1 week of white in a year. When I was a driver in the alps I was quite happy with my michelins "snow+ice" but I then didn't pay for them. They seemed to lose grip after 40000kms of wet rally driving
If you end up buying new tires I'd definately look at something a fair bit taller than 235s if you can. Maybe you could try siping some tires yourself ?

 

[ivanhoe]

salut christophe,
i see you found your way back to the diesel community. 85bj60 saying hello! funny, i was thinking of you just this week! i was wondering what you were up too. the old faithful is been retired, i was thinking of doing the same with my 85bj60. rusted beyond the point of no return. the body starting to seperate is a scary feeling. braking like flintstone is not a laughing topic. gonna have to get my 78fj45 into a 78bj45 soon so i could have wheels(landcruiser)! enjoy your newer landcruiser, now i'm jealous!!

 

[roscoFJ73]

Thanks for your welcome

Are you saying the big tires are stock or close to stock size? I looked at tire sizes for the US spec FJ80, and it said 235/75/R15 (1991 model year). Is there such a big difference with the JDM market HDJ81 (presumably it's pretty much the same you get in OZ)?

I'm just a bit stumped because I don't have the truck nearby and haven't had a look at the japanese documention yet, and would have liked to research tires while I wait for the customs papers.

Anyway, the problem is to find good tires for the ice and hard packed snow we have on our roads here. We have soft greasy snow only during storms, the rest of the time it's that slick hard stuff, and that stuff stays on the roads between december and end of april.

Right now we already have two inches on the ground and it looks like it's going to stay for a few days. fortunately the roadfs are still dry. What bothers me is in a few days the first dumpings of salt and sand is going to start, and I can't drive the new truck to a garage to have an oil treatment made.

Thanks for your input!
Chris

I misunderstood your 1st post. I thought the tyres on your new 80 were stock.
I know later 80 series had 16 inch rims,93 onwards?
Maybe you could try the 80 series forum for more opinions but I still think the old 60 tyres will look odd especially after admiring the big ones presently on the 80

EDIT Chris I had a look at B/stone aust site and it says the 285x75x16 is 854mm O/D which is just over 34 inches which is an inch or 2 over stock IMO
Your 235x75x15 are just under 30 inches.
I think they will take away a lot of the nice things about the 80
Use them as a stop gap if need be

 

[83bj60]

Maybe you could try siping some tires yourself ?

Heck no one even knows what siping is in the shops around here, how am I supposed to know how to do it? Would be great though, I'd have a much larger choice of tires then!

Thanks again for you care Denis!

 

[83bj60]

salut christophe,
i see you found your way back to the diesel community. 85bj60 saying hello! funny, i was thinking of you just this week! i was wondering what you were up too. the old faithful is been retired, i was thinking of doing the same with my 85bj60. rusted beyond the point of no return. the body starting to seperate is a scary feeling. braking like flintstone is not a laughing topic. gonna have to get my 78fj45 into a 78bj45 soon so i could have wheels(landcruiser)! enjoy your newer landcruiser, now i'm jealous!!

Glad to see you here Yvan! Any sequels from your mega accident of a few years ago?

Getting the HDJ81 has been quite an adventure, I can tell you, because it is a very long process. Remember, I'm in Quebec, the truck came from Yokohama and had the added rigamarole of having to cross the country (hurray for our 'speedy' train system: more than two weeks to cross country? What a joke! No wonder they've been losing so much business since the 70s!).

Fortunately I've been very well taken care of by my importer all along the way. From all the folks I contacted here, turns out none took as much time as he did to answer all my questions with interest and dedication, no matter how dumb or far fetcehd they were at times. Although in retrospect I really should have asked more of what was involved (I never thought of all the costs involved, it's definitely more expensive and more complicated to get such a truck into Quebec I can assure you!)

As for the old faithful, until I get the new truck, it's still running! It's kind of on life support (it's -5C or so here and it needs to be plugged before I start is as the EDIC system isn't working anymore, the glowplugs don't function in super glow anymore and I never got to install a cable on the injection pump)

As for being jealous, even my meticulous friend Pierre, who's trained as a medical technician (100% clean room mechanic) said to me when he saw it, "Christophe, je dois t'avouer que je suis jaloux!". But as long as it's not in my driveway, I won't say more, don't want to jinx anything

As for importing one you got to decide fast because I've heard that there may not be too much time before the authorities stop us from importing those amazing vehicles. It would seem governemnt officials (at least that would be typical of the ethic here in Quebec) believe it's wrong to allow superior machines in and why are we not content with what is being made and sold here... I just tell then where do I get a 4WD turbo diesel truck with factory lockers all around? Toyota North America? Are you kidding?!

Anyway...

It's been a long process. Much research, nights on the net to look into it, reading the forums. People think I'm nuts where I live, paying cash for a vehicle I only saw little 240x160 pixel pictures of, but with a lot of reading here and elsewhere and the fact I wouldn't be happy with anything else I took the plunge and the rest is history (still in the making!)...

 

[83bj60]

I misunderstood your 1st post. I thought the tyres on your new 80 were stock.
I know later 80 series had 16 inch rims,93 onwards?
Maybe you could try the 80 series forum for more opinions but I still think the old 60 tyres will look odd especially after admiring the big ones presently on the 80

They sure do!

EDIT Chris I had a look at B/stone aust site and it says the 285x75x16 is 854mm O/D which is just over 34 inches which is an inch or 2 over stock IMO
Your 235x75x15 are just under 30 inches.
I think they will take away a lot of the nice things about the 80
Use them as a stop gap if need be

I'm more and more inclined to do that!

The question is now, where to get 16" stainless steel rims for winter use? I remember looking it up once and IIRC there is a shop in Viginia that can do custom wheels at a decent price. Is anything decently rust proof available from Toyota Canada AT A DECENT PRICE (their OEM chrome steel rims where over $350 last time I checked)?

The existing 16" BERG rims are great, but they are lightweight alloy (possibly aluminum?) and they will start to CORRODE after the first taste of road salt!

 

[ivanhoe]

Glad to see you here Yvan! Any sequels from your mega accident of a few years ago?

the cruiser sure helped me on my recovery. i do get the odd nerve feelings at times which overall is a blessing in disguise. it will be nice again to have your opinion on questions called upon by the cruiser community.

 

[Martin White]

How about the goodyear Wrangler Silent Armours or Toyo open country A/T's? Both ice and snow rated. Good reviews under snow and ice conditions and should last quite a long time. I don't think they're available in 255-85-16 though.

 

[crushers]

As for importing one you got to decide fast because I've heard that there may not be too much time before the authorities stop us from importing those amazing vehicles. ...

i am curious, are you talking Quebec or Canada? i recently called Ottawa to check on this very rumour and that is just what it is, a rumour with no basis in fact or truth.
it turns out some importers decided to spread this rumour to cause "panic sales". the lady i talked to laughed when i asked her about the rumour. i have heard this rumour off and on for years.
i have heard that Sask insurance is talking about not insuring any new RHD and BC has already pulled it's stunts and are continuing to do so. Ontario has clamped down on inspection practices.

if your importer has brought this rumour up he should have checked his sources for truth before passing it on to the customers.

either way, you will love the 81. the quiet comfortable ride will bring all new respect to the diesel cruiser. make sure you get the BEB done as soon as it arrives.

that handle sounds familure Chris, have we chatted in the past?

cheers and welcome

 

[crushers]

as for tires the blizzacks are wicked winter only as well as the nokia and the geolander ice and snow. i can't remember which on eit is but one of them (i beleive) can be studded as well, might not be legal in your area though)

 

[83bj60]

i am curious, are you talking Quebec or Canada? i recently called Ottawa to check on this very rumour and that is just what it is, a rumour with no basis in fact or truth.

Well I'm glad to hear that! It's just that I read somewhere (now don't ask where, I don't remember!) that as couple of provincial transportation ministers were pushing for regulations to prevent people from importing RHD vehicles, presumably for safety reasons...

As for Quebec, things seem to be fine, the guy I deal with has no problems having the vehicles pass inspection. Like he says, they usually just stay in the garage for long enough to give the inspectors time to 'ooh' and 'aah!'

it turns out some importers decided to spread this rumour to cause "panic sales". the lady i talked to laughed when i asked her about the rumour. i have heard this rumour off and on for years.
i have heard that Sask insurance is talking about not insuring any new RHD and BC has already pulled it's stunts and are continuing to do so. Ontario has clamped down on inspection practices.

if your importer has brought this rumour up he should have checked his sources for truth before passing it on to the customers.

Nope, I believe he was quoting from the same source I read from after, IIRC, the fuss was in BC, I think. Didn't know about Sakatchewan, though. There's been no problems here that I know so far. And don't bash my importer, not everybody has your experience, he doesn't know everything but he's a true enthusiast and has worked hard to make it happen, I couldn't have done it without him

I promise I'll post pictures of the truck when it's finally in my driveway!!!

either way, you will love the 81. the quiet comfortable ride will bring all new respect to the diesel cruiser. make sure you get the BEB done as soon as it arrives.

About the BEB: the truck has less than 70,000 km. It truly looks NEW under the hood! I've seen some very clean engines and undercarriages from sites such as Outback Imports, and this truck has nothing to envy from them and is definitely comparable to the VERY BEST that has been posted from those sites: shiny bolts, clean and smooth parts with NO rust whatsoever and not a trace of any oil or grease leaks! With its (almost imperceptible) coating oe very fine dust it looks as if it left the dealer last spring! The inside of the frame is so clean I could hardly collect any dust from the tip of my finger!

I've also made a recording of the engine when I first tried it. If would gladly post it here but apparently can't. What surprised me is that it simply started, no wait, I didn't even see any glow plug light come on, and it wasn't particularly warm that morning, and it hadn't run since the night prior. The engine was immediately perfectly regular! Never seen that with my old 3B, unless it had run 15 minutes before...

So... I don'want to say I don't need to do the BEB, but it sure looks and sounds like it doesn't need it at all, at least for now...

Should I want to do the job, is there a good source at a decent price here in Canada? I have a buddy in OZ who could easily get me parts cheap, as long as I am willing to deal with the excruciatingly slow delivery delays...

that handle sounds familure Chris, have we chatted in the past?

cheers and welcome

Yes, most probably, I used to be on the DTLC for years, Wayne

My old truck used to be called the Marathon Runner, it's earned the title 'Old Faithful' because it almost never let me down (one water pump last summer and a rad last winter, not bad for 8 years and almost 600,000km of REALLY rough roads)...

And thank you for your input, as always it's very appreciated

Chris

 

[83bj60]

How about the goodyear Wrangler Silent Armours or Toyo open country A/T's? Both ice and snow rated. Good reviews under snow and ice conditions and should last quite a long time. I don't think they're available in 255-85-16 though.

Thank you for your input, I will sure take not of that! I've had a lengthy discussion with a buddy this afternoon and he's basically said, just put my old (2 winters old) studded Hakkas on the BJ60 rims. He seems to think that 4 inches difference in diameter is not that bad. I personnaly think the difference is very large, but the trouble is I don't know at this point what the stock size is for the HDJ81. The 285/75R16s Bridgestone Dueler A/T that are on the truck now are at least 4 inches higher and 2 inches (if not more) wider than the Hakkas. The difference is HUGE!

 

[83bj60]

as for tires the blizzacks are wicked winter only as well as the nokia and the geolander ice and snow. i can't remember which on eit is but one of them (i beleive) can be studded as well, might not be legal in your area though)

At this point I'm trying to figure out which tire is closest to the OEM size in diameter, I need a tire that will cut through snow and grab ice, I don't need one that will float on top of it.

As for studs they are legal in QC from Oct 15th to May 1st...

So I guess the smart money says to check how the puny Hakkas make out before shelling out hard earned cash for some fancy new tires...

Thanks again for your input, I will add those tires to my watch list...

Chris