Getting a welder (2 Viewers)

[Junk]

I've heard folks say they could teach a monkey how to mig weld in 15 minutes. That may be right. To get someone to correctly mig weld can take a lot longer. Mig welding is great. It's fast, cheap compared to tig, looks nice, and is fairly easy to learn. Only problem is that a lot of folks have thought their welds were great because they looked ok, only to later see them fail.

In my view, learning how to weld was tough. I could not find a decent class in my area, and all the dealers with jerkoffs. I got the Miller 175 and the student pack. Watched the video that came with it and went from there. Spent a lot of time practicing and ended up getting a part time job doing some welding. The job was critical because there was a real experienced person there and it was like I was getting paid to learn. I do know feel ok doing mig for structural stuff, but recently a friend asked me if I would build him an air tank for his truck and I said no after thinking about it. While I have confidence in what I have learned, if it failed and injured him or one of his kids, I would have a hard time living with myself.

Recently I have started tig welding. Much more difficult, but for specific applications it is totally awesome. This is a complicated process that requires cleaning, preparation, a lot more practice and is just overall more difficult.

You can not go wrong with the Miller welders unless you undersize what you buy. I have only ever used one Lincoln. I happen to use Miller at work and owned Miller. Also got to know some guys at Miller.

I would advise to avoid the 135 - yes they are very portable, and if you owned a MM251, then a smaller 135 for those small jobs could make sense, but if you are only going to have one, I would advise to get either the Hobart HH175 or the MM175. The main difference, besides the drive, is the HH175 has pre-specified tap settings vs the MM having infinite voltage selection. The infinite is nice if you need to fine tune something, but that could be tuned by adjusting the wire speed too.

The nice thing about the 175 units is there is a solid market for it. If you decided to buy a bigger machine, I can't imagine you would lose more than like just a few bucks selling your used welder. If you buy quaility, it will last a very long time. I have done the same thing with my compressor. Got a nice commercial unit for the garage, and it should be fine for a very long time. Also remember that the MM175 is rated up to 1/4" single pass. That means UP TO 1/4, so if you're going to be doing 1/4" frequently, then may as well go to the 210 immediately. You'd be better off having a little extra machine than just getting by.

I'm considering picking up another mig, will either be the MM251 or the MM210.

Check out the Hobart site for their forum (linked in above post). You can also ask on www.weldingweb.com. There is some great knowledge out there.

Just PLEASE, do us and yourself a favor. BEFORE you weld anything structural on your truck (meaning anything that would fawk you up if it failed) that you have someone check out some of your welds.

There are a lot of guys here, pirate and elsewhere that know 1,000 times more than me. This is simply some basic stuff. The most important thing is to have someone check your welds. Yes, you can test them yourself, but make sure that someone with a lot of experience does see some of them at some point so you know you'll be ok.

 

[drohweder]

Thanks Junk. Its nice to have a forum like this where everyone is looking out for you. I hope to take a class and practice, practice, practice. I certainly would not feel comfortable welding up spring mounts or the such for quite some time but its good to be remineded that even experienced welders need to know thier limits. I am going to look into the Miller 175. Its a lot of cash with all the accessories but would be worth it in the long run. Now just need to convince the wife that this is a need and not a "want".

Anyone in the area (Bay area) with welding experience that would be willing to give a newbie some hands on advice? Even an afternoon of watching would be helpful. Thanks again1

 

[woody]

http://www.millerwelds.com has good tech articles too...worth doing some reading. Discusses weld depths, push versus verticle versus drag positioning, etc. Worthwhile reading in there....I still reference it at home when something ain't coming out like I planned....

and I still do "sample" pieces when I'm welding...especially for out of position stuff. Helps to get the welder dialed in properly for penetration versus buildup...

realized how necessary it was when I was laying on my back a couple weeks ago, feeling pieces of hot metal burn thru my ih8mud t-shirt and imbed themselves in my chest....had 'er dialed a little hot that day....lol

 

[rusmannx]

i'm sure i'm a moron...
something rated as 1/4 single pass doesn't mean 1/2" if both sides of a plate are welded?

 

[rusmannx]

oh and one more,
what would be a good stick welder?
i like heavy metal (1/4"-5/8" [and metallica]).

 

[Poser]

[quote author=rusmannx link=board=14;threadid=10497;start=msg94803#msg94803 date=1074925037]
i'm sure i'm a moron...
something rated as 1/4 single pass doesn't mean 1/2" if both sides of a plate are welded?
[/quote]

It means attaching one piece of .250 thick material to another .250 thick or thinner material in one fell swoop, over multi-pass or beveling out before welding the two pieces together.

Klear as mudd?

 

[Poser]

[quote author=rusmannx link=board=14;threadid=10497;start=msg94805#msg94805 date=1074925283]
oh and one more,
what would be a good stick welder?
i like heavy metal (1/4"-5/8" [and metallica]).
[/quote]

I like this one, works good as a power supply too when you have to do other functions in camp, like power an air compressor and a plasma cutter...

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/bobcat_250_nt/


-Steve

 

[rusmannx]

hey woody, what kind of stuff can you do with a thundebolt?
thick stuff?
thin stuff?
rusty stuff?
what model?

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Russ,
the thunderbolt is a stick welder (GTAW?) wich is a centered electrode and filler material with a flux coating around the central area. generally used for heavier gauge (up to 5/8" if bevelled and multi passed) welding. worthless on thin gauge stock. also can be used on cast iron with specific rods and aluminum with specific rods. they are very versatile but kind of difficult to use.
I still use the gun analogy on all welding.
mig= machine gun. ie with a little practice it can be effective a little more and you can do well with it.
stick= shotgun. ie it has a specific purpose and will accomplish that. not to difficult to learn but still limited applications for use.
tig= sniper rifle. ie absolutely wonderful results if you know what you are doing. but this take sthe most time and patience to learn and master.
for the most bang for the buck go to the 220v model in lincoln or miller. 200 amp + you will lose some portability from the 175 units but you can use up to 44# spools of wire wich cost less per pound then smaller 10# spools for the 175. plus with the bigger units you have a cart and bottle holder there.
one last thing on infinite amperage control. absolutely a wonderful thing especially on sheet metal. walk in to a body shop and see how many welders you see with tabbed amperage settings. the wire speed can fine tune but being able to tune in both is better.
Dave

 

[crewzerdog]

I've got the Hobart 135 with gas bottle setup - works great. I too like the portability -- can use on most any 110 circuit. Like everyone else said - practice practice practice. Suggest going to a body shop and getting some of their scrap sheet metal and practice on that. Also, if you intend to do much welding - buy or borrow one of the auto darkening helmets - it really makes life easier. You can pick up inexpensive ones at Tractor Supply or off eBay for less than $100. Also, be sure to have good ventilation where you are welding and don't weld on galvanized steel - puts off bad fumes!
Oh yeah, on the gas bottle, I'd go as big as you can - gas is cheap to refill but the hassle of filling up small bottles isn't worth it for me. Good luck.

 

[lagwagon]

Dammit man we have to get together! I have welders, beer, all that s%^#. Anyways gas, mig, arc, tubing bender.
Jeff 530-219-5801

 

[Junk]

Jeff, bring all that crap east and will put it to work

 

[lagwagon]

I was actually going to make a hitch mount for the bender. Two people I have talked to have made hitch mounts because they had no room in there garage.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Two years ago I purchased a Clarke 180, not the best machine on the market but we like it.

After a friend of mine spent some time showing me how to set it up I have found it works good.

Spent a little time on a Miller 210, well lets just say its a Cadilac compared to my Clarke. Thats not to say I will run out and buy one, plasma cutter is much higher on my list.

Rob

 

[Junk]

Jeff, for about $100 in parts, you can get an air/hydro ram to make it hydro and build a small cart for it, so you can wheel it out and use any time you need it. There are plans and info on pirate and hobart's forum if you're interested.

 

[Dirt_is_our_friend]

so for welding on a frame you all would reccomend a stick or TIG? i wouldnt be doing very high stress mounts but just a few gussets and rust holes along the frame rails what would you reccomend? i would have someone check all my welds before PC and X-ray it it make sure but before i do the job i would like to get it right the 1st time?

 

[Junk]

LOL, no. Don't think you'd want to spend all the time and effort doing tig to a frame. Most would either stick or mig. Just most are saying that just because a mig bead may look ok, doesn't mean squat. A mig bead can look good and still be fawked.

 

[Dirt_is_our_friend]

i have learned basic on the stick welder. It would be a bit easier to do that....i understand cause that frame is thick......so stick makes the best sense......