gear oil opinions (1 Viewer)

[Infinity00]

When I drained my newly broken in trans oil it had a nice shine from the break in - I wouldn’t use it in my diff - I don’t think any filtering or sieves are small enough to remove the metal. The reason we are changing it is to get rid of the fine metal particles that will act as a fine slurry to wear the parts down. I’m not a chemist or oil person but I bet you can call Blackstone and get a definitive answer from an engineer there. If you call them, post up their answer. I’m curious as to what they’ll say.

Did you see he shine in yours? I had shine in my newly broken in rear gears as well. Dumped that too.

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Since you asked for opinions - well everyone has one. Several random things come to mind:

1) You've spent roughly $4500 to put in a new transmission I believe. (As far as re-using oil I know you're talking the axle, but for the trans you are debating expensive oil.) I'm as tight as they come but - when you've got that much invested what is an additional $50 in oil? And as far as re-cycling the oil in an axle - to me that smacks of a Great Depression or Soviet Russia level of frugality driven out of necessity. Land Cruisers are an expensive hobby just like a boat. On top of that Toyota specifies different grades for each - GL4 for the trans and GL5 Hypoid gear oil for the axle.

2) Break in. I follow your path and change the oil shortly after something new is put in service - because I can. However on any new vehicle owners are not asked to change their gear oil at 1500 miles. Even engine break in oils are a thing of the past because people can't be bothered.

3) Magnetic drain plugs are a must if not so equipped. Any steel swarf no matter how fine will find it's way to the magnets. Any other metal in the oil (brass, bronze) will obviously not stick to the magnets but will not cause any real harm to gear teeth or bearings. Dirt - that's another story.

The question is do you or your cruiser have enough miles left to wear out an H55 if it's filled with the proper level of the proper lube? I know I don't have enough miles left in me to outlast my new H55 piece of Japanese Aisin awesomeness if properly cared for.

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

thanks all for the feedback. i have the funds to buy new oil - so that's what i'll do. i needed to be talked out of my idea and ya'll talked me out of it...thank you! with the miles i generally put on my rigs - i wont have to do this again for 3 to 4 years.

 

[Kleatus]

It is common to reuse fluids in heavy equipment when it must be removed for repairs, but the fluid is pumped out and reintroduced to the system through a filtered system, which can be filtered down to a couple microns if you would like. You can get a self contained pump/filter setup on wheels (filter cart). In the case of such a small volume of relatively cheap oil, it's not worth the hassle and doesn't even make sense financially. The amount of particulate that is going to come off a new gear set (the amount I've seen come out of rear end gears) is likely enough to require replacement of those types of filters, which cost more than new oil would.

Common practice is to change differential oil after 500 minutes after installing new gears. I am on 100 miles on new 4.88's and expect to find metallic shiny oil when I change it at 500 miles. Would it be better to change it at 50, then 100, then 500 again? Probably so, but I'm perfectly comfortable doing what the manufacturer calls for which is 500 miles. Will they last 450,000 miles with that extra change vs 400,000 miles without it? I dont know.

In short - yeah you can change your diff/trans/engine oil as frequently as you'd like during and after break in. Things shoild last longer the more frequently you do it. Somewhere there is a break even point on maintenance vs. longevity, and I think most of us probably spend more than is necessary already. How many of the first or second owners of our rigs fretted about this stuff when they were new or 10 years old? How many of them even stuck to the fluid change intervals for transmissions and axles? And yet how many old cruisers are running around with hundreds of thousands of miles on them giving us grief via rust and leaky old seals and draining our wallets at the pump with perfectly happy transmissions and axles..?

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Common practice is to change differential oil after 500 minutes after installing new gears. I am on 100 miles on new 4.88's and expect to find metallic shiny oil when I change it at 500 miles. Would it be better to change it at 50, then 100, then 500 again? Probably so, but I'm perfectly comfortable doing what the manufacturer calls for which is 500 miles. Will they last 450,000 miles with that extra change vs 400,000 miles without it? I dont know.

As stated I'm with you on this - but I'm still thinking about how manufacturers get longevity out of gears knowing the gear oil will likely never get changed. Ring and Pinion in a transaxle is covered due to ATF changes (if that even happens.) I just don't know what percentage of people are going to change their gear oil (or pay someone to do it) on a regular basis. Of all the people I know only the gear heads will.

 

[Kleatus]

As stated I'm with you on this - but I'm still thinking about how manufacturers get longevity out of gears knowing the gear oil will likely never get changed. Ring and Pinion in a transaxle is covered due to ATF changes (if that even happens.) I just don't know what percentage of people are going to change their gear oil (or pay someone to do it) on a regular basis. Of all the people I know only the gear heads will.

I have heard that factory gears are lapped to a much better finish than aftermarket and therefore don't need to be run in. I don't know if I buy this entirely. I have never inspected a brand new OEM takeout gear set. I wonder though do you get a different Dana gear set from a speed shop than you'd get in a new vehicle that came with a Dana axle? I have drained diffs on vehicles with relatively low mileage and the factory fill and found the magnetic plugs very sludgy and oil looking like it needs to be changed. Maybe the entirety of the ferrous wear metals being contained on the magnet is good enough (good enough for the warranty period for sure). They know it happens and even though you're certainly better off changing it soon, the need to return a brand new vehicle for service of diffs at X miles, engine at X miles, etc. is probably too much of a put off to most buyers when other manufacturers offer "lubed for life" transmissions and differentials.

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Good points. Getting off topic but I was at an equipment supplier of mine and they were just finishing up a cell to - get this - weld the ring gear to the differential. Using a 5,000 watt laser welder. Was told it was for Dana and this timing lines up with the new Jeep launch BTW. Anyway the finish on the gears was very good - almost mirror. So maybe that has some merit.

 

[Kleatus]

Good points. Getting off topic but I was at an equipment supplier of mine and they were just finishing up a cell to - get this - weld the ring gear to the differential. Using a 5,000 watt laser welder. Was told it was for Dana and this timing lines up with the new Jeep launch BTW. Anyway the finish on the gears was very good - almost mirror. So maybe that has some merit.

Yeah, I was doing some digging on Chrysler diffs recently as I need to rebuild the 9.25" in my pickup and I discovered they have been welding ring gears on for a while now in the newer Ram trucks. BMW does it too. Some penny pinching engineer figured out it was $0.65 per unit cheaper than bolts, serviceability be damned.

 

[60Works]

https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Wow. Thanks for posting that. Now we know. To the OP that should be all you need to know to pony up for the good stuff in your new H55.

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

all right...to close out this thread...couple notes & observations.

1 - i read all 12 pages of that article posted by @Juggernaught - awesome read...thanks for sharing. i left work today - stopped at napa and bought a gallon jug of sta-lube gl-4 80/90 gear oil + an additional quart...went home and changed out my transmission gear oil since i have just about 1000 miles on the new gear box it was time.

i was also hoping that after reading that article and buying specifically GL-4 that i might end up with less notchy gear changes - only to find that i saved my empty jugs from when i bought the new H55 and filled it...I used GL-4 when i first filled it so i was already running "the right fluid" ...so i can't blame the notchy shifting on the gear oil. i'm going to adjust the clutch some more and hope it wears in a bit.


to close out the conversation about how much metal will be in brand new oil after only 1000 miles of light use. wow.. @evilorgoodtwin i will definitely not be using this oil for anything...thanks for making me question that.

both the drain and fill plugs have magnets - check out how much fine metal shavings these things picked up.

the only place that used gear oil belongs is in the recycle bin. i'm a believer!

 

[augirthedude]

all right...to close out this thread...couple notes & observations.

1 - i read all 12 pages of that article posted by @Juggernaught - awesome read...thanks for sharing. i left work today - stopped at napa and bought a gallon jug of sta-lube gl-4 80/90 gear oil + an additional quart...went home and changed out my transmission gear oil since i have just about 1000 miles on the new gear box it was time.

i was also hoping that after reading that article and buying specifically GL-4 that i might end up with less notchy gear changes - only to find that i saved my empty jugs from when i bought the new H55 and filled it...I used GL-4 when i first filled it so i was already running "the right fluid" ...so i can't blame the notchy shifting on the gear oil. i'm going to adjust the clutch some more and hope it wears in a bit.


to close out the conversation about how much metal will be in brand new oil after only 1000 miles of light use. wow.. @evilorgoodtwin i will definitely not be using this oil for anything...thanks for making me question that.

both the drain and fill plugs have magnets - check out how much fine metal shavings these things picked up.
View attachment 1747699
the only place that used gear oil belongs is in the recycle bin. i'm a believer!

That’s normal