Have any of you heard of a fuel injection set up from Howell? Any info would be appreciated. The cost is about $1200 but i am not sure how much more hp or fuel economy it would get you...
Fuel Injection System (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nwafj60
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
I have owned a couple TBI conversions. What I have found is that the fuel economy didn't change much. What really made EFI worth the effort was the driveability improvements both on and off road. On cold mornings just hop in and turn the key like a modern car. The motor fires right off and warms up without any help from you (no choke, no pump 10 times, crank and pray BS: just turn the key). Off road the motor smoothly runs at angles far beyond what most carbs are capable of including on the side and upside down. Is it worth $1200? Only you can answer that one. I'd recommend driving a converted Cruiser or two and see what you think.
HTH,
Nick
HTH,
Nick
Does doing a TBI conversion unlock any power not found in a carburetor?
got a link to the howell 2F kit? MAF has one for $2500
If the carb and connected emissions system are WORKING CORRECTLY then I don't think there is a lot to be gained power-wise on the street. But most of the time something is wrong in one of the emission systems. In that case installing EFI (and pulling most of the unused emissions equipment) will seem like a power adder. Having an O2 sensor to constantly adjust the mixture while cruising helps fuel economy sometimes but I have not really seen much improvement in the systems I had. Improved driveability is the real beauty of EFI IMHO....
Nick
I have not had a TBI 2F, but- I did have an 80 toy pickup with a 22r that I yanked for a 22re and saw a world of difference, in power/driveability/starting/reliability. It would be worth it imho, but no evidence to back it up. Aside from MAF (Money-And-aFar) there is Affordablefuelinjection.com (i think??? search google for affordable fuel injection) that has a good setup for around 1200 bucks last time I checked using new/rebuilt GM parts (rebuilt and programmed CPU) that is put together to compensate for any upgrades (cylinder bore, head work, intake blah blah) and I believe that the tech responded telling me that the wiring harness only required 3 easy wire splices to make the setup work, and to weld a connection into the exhaust for an o2 sensor. Find a new/rebuilt CPU from GM (4.3 litre) and it would probably cost almost as much money as this kit.
allways wondered, does going to fuel injection affect legality status with smog tests or is it all kosher and just tested differently?
I am running a megasquirt setup on my 2F using a throttle body from a 4.3L GM truck.
No real change in power, just a more consistent delivery and easier tuning. My mileage did increase a bit. I can get up to 17 mpg on the highway, even running SOA with 35s and 4.56 gears with the stock H42. My typical mileage is around 14-15 mpg with lows around 12mpg, mostly dependent on the type of driving.
The big costs for me on the setup were the megasquirt computer (I did build it myself) and the fuel pump. The rest of the sensors and wiring were inexpensive. A few of the parts I was able to source from the junkyard.
I retained all the smog equipment as well, so I have not had a problem with the smog tests. In fact, it is real easy for me to upload a smog program to my computer for the 2 speed test. I have it dialed in for low readings on the oxygen sensor at no load 800 rpm and 2500 rpm.
No real change in power, just a more consistent delivery and easier tuning. My mileage did increase a bit. I can get up to 17 mpg on the highway, even running SOA with 35s and 4.56 gears with the stock H42. My typical mileage is around 14-15 mpg with lows around 12mpg, mostly dependent on the type of driving.
The big costs for me on the setup were the megasquirt computer (I did build it myself) and the fuel pump. The rest of the sensors and wiring were inexpensive. A few of the parts I was able to source from the junkyard.
I retained all the smog equipment as well, so I have not had a problem with the smog tests. In fact, it is real easy for me to upload a smog program to my computer for the 2 speed test. I have it dialed in for low readings on the oxygen sensor at no load 800 rpm and 2500 rpm.
How difficult was it to install the megasquirt? Is it a plug-it-in install or do you need special testing equipment (rolling road and the like).
I notice on the MAF website that their kit is not for "pollution controlled vehicles". According to MAF this is because as an interference with the original system, it flunks CA and it also, apparently, it advances the timing which is not allowed in CA. Often these systems can improve smog (see www.customefis.com) but for legal reasons are always not allowed on "pollution controlled vehicles".
The Downey site mentions an injection kit but prices are not included. Howell does not appear to mention any kit. I think there is a company called "affordable injection" that also does a kit.
The Downey site mentions an injection kit but prices are not included. Howell does not appear to mention any kit. I think there is a company called "affordable injection" that also does a kit.
Last edited:
I just ordered a complete Howell system for my SBC yesterday. I also looked at Customefis and Affordable Fuel Injection. Both Howell and Accordable looked like complete systems. I ended up going with Howell because the tech support seemed top notch and readily available. The kit should be here early next week!
This is my first efi conversion so I wanteed a complete system (I also live 2 hours from the nearest junkyard/pick and pull). If you have parts availability/expertise then purchasing the harness from Howell and sourcing the rest of the parts from a junkyard seems like a good option.
This is my first efi conversion so I wanteed a complete system (I also live 2 hours from the nearest junkyard/pick and pull). If you have parts availability/expertise then purchasing the harness from Howell and sourcing the rest of the parts from a junkyard seems like a good option.
If you are willing to learn how fuel injection really works, the megasquirt is not that difficult. It requires you to read a lot of information, but is mostly a bolt-on affair.
I have a lot of notes from my install, and I am always willing to help people out with initial settings and fuel maps. It is really as simple as knowing that your engine needs a certain amount of fuel at a given rpm and load.
I have been running this setup for over 2 years now and absolutely love it. In fact, I just got back from my annual smog test where my readings were:
HC = 8 @idle; HC = 20 @ 2500 rpm
CO% = 0.00 @ idle; CO% = 0.00 @ 2500 rpm
C02 and O2 are read but not tested.
It is so easy to dial in the fuel where you need it and make sure it is not wasted elsewhere.
I am sure some of the off-the-shelf systems work well, but if you have a problem it becomes a "black box". Support from the manufacturer should be a major consideration when you purchase.
I have a lot of notes from my install, and I am always willing to help people out with initial settings and fuel maps. It is really as simple as knowing that your engine needs a certain amount of fuel at a given rpm and load.
I have been running this setup for over 2 years now and absolutely love it. In fact, I just got back from my annual smog test where my readings were:
HC = 8 @idle; HC = 20 @ 2500 rpm
CO% = 0.00 @ idle; CO% = 0.00 @ 2500 rpm
C02 and O2 are read but not tested.
It is so easy to dial in the fuel where you need it and make sure it is not wasted elsewhere.
I am sure some of the off-the-shelf systems work well, but if you have a problem it becomes a "black box". Support from the manufacturer should be a major consideration when you purchase.
I like the mega squirt and will likely go that route if I switch to multiport, but for now my GM TBI works great. Starts easy on cold mornings. I went the junk yard route. Check the tech section, there are links to several installs. I average 15mpg. I also plan on hooking all the smog stuff back up and see if I can make the GM ECM control it properly.
JDay, any pics or a write up in the works? Had a friend do the Mega Squirt on a Nissan 240sx and he loved it.
JDay, any pics or a write up in the works? Had a friend do the Mega Squirt on a Nissan 240sx and he loved it.
I stopped writing at about 7 pages. I still need to add some more info on tuning.
As for pics, nothing very dramatic to see.
As for pics, nothing very dramatic to see.
Last edited:
I would love to read what you have so far...
You asked for it.
2F – TBI Using Megasquirt (Long)
No Megasquirt is not the latest release from vivid videos, it is a fully user programmable fuel injection controller from the brilliant minds of Al Grippo and Bruce Bowling. I do not know these guys personally, but they have done a great job of developing both hardware and software to control fuel delivery to any internal combustion engine on the planet. People are using this system on everything from lawnmowers to dragsters. All the details of the system are on their website, but I will cover some of the topics and how I applied them to my 87 FJ60.
I am not the type of person to jump into things spur of the moment, hell I plan what cereal I am going to eat for breakfast the night before, so I did quite a bit of research before I settled on using Megasquirt (MS) for my TBI conversion. To give you an idea, I won the TBI adapter in an IH8MUD raffle from Spaceghost quite a while ago. I read about programming a stock GM 774747 chip and about some of the nightmares associated with the full TBI kits out there. My rig has always run well with the carb, but also tended to stumble off idle. What prompted me to change was a trip to Cedar City for some wheeling. I kept ahead of my buddy with his Powersmoke towing his mini on the highway, but offroad and at odd angles I kept stalling. It seemed like the altitude and steep angles were killing me. So I decided to wait until after the New Year and make the switch to TBI. I read a couple of testimonials from people on the MS site who have installed it on their ‘cruisers, so I decided to give it a shot on my FJ60.
MS is very simple…once you get to know it. At first, assembling the board, soldering chips, wiring sensors, and programming a computer seems like a job suited only to some pencil-necked geek wearing a buttoned-down, white shirt with a pocket protector working in a cramped cubicle under flickering, fluorescent lamps, however, any gear-head cruiserholic should be capable of getting their tractor engine running on MS.
MS only needs input from a handful of sensors to make it work. For a TBI application it is really only replacing your carburetor and all its odd vacuum pots with a computer controlled throttle body injector. The MS needs coolant temperature (CLT), intake air temperature (IAT), manifold air pressure (MAP), throttle position (TPS), exhaust oxygen (EGO – optional) and tachometer signal (RPMS). The MS computer calculates how much air mass is going into the engine (CLT, IAT, MAP) then responds to the fuel injectors based on how much load is on the engine (MAP), how much the throttle is open and how fast it is opening or closing (TPS) and how fast the engine is turning (RPMS). It is also capable of making changes to the injector flow based on how rich or lean the engine is running (EGO).
The system I set up includes the Megasquirt box and a relay board. The relay board helps clean things up a bit. It provides a location to end all the sensor and injector leads, houses a relay for the fuel pump, and fuses for the system. The MS box simply connects to the relay board via an interface cable.
OK, enough of the theory crap, if you wanted a physics lesson you wouldn’t have skipped class to get loaded with your buddies. Questions: Does it work in a cruiser? Where can I buy it? How long does it take to do? How much does it cost? Can I smoke some 37s and only need 1 tank of gas to get to Moab? Answers: Yes. Check www.megasquirt.info/index.html. A spell. Less than $700. In low range with 5.29s and if you live in Green River.
Accumulation:
The parts you need to make this work are pretty simple and not too expensive. If you buy one of the full TBI kits out there, you end up spending a lot more money and get a lot less flexibility. Here is my parts list; most of the stuff is straight out the junkyard (JY):
Part Source Cost
TBI adapter to 2F manifold IH8MUD $Free.thirty-free for myself
Throttle body w/ injectors (more below) JY 20
Coolant & Air temperature (same for both) JY 10
Oxygen sensor, heated (3 wire) Ebay 40
Bung for O2 sensor Autozone / CSK 10
Megasquirt, full kit Glen’s garage 250
Wiring, full RS Autosports 55
Electric fuel pump Summit 100
Fuel Filter Summit 15
Fuel line, fittings Autozone 40
Throttle cable CSK 25
Air filter adapter (some fab work) JY Free
Total 565
I ended up spending a little more (about $50) for some odds and ends like wire looms, solder, a new wire stripper/crimper, a TBI rebuild kit, some extra injectors, some additional fuel line, and a few nuts and bolts. Prices do not include busted knuckles, #6 consumed, fire extinguishers, skeptical looks from friends and family, and huffing lots of gas fumes.
The TBI adaptor can come from any of the vendors that make one, the only differences being the orientation of the TBI on top of the intake. I am not sure if Spaceghost is still making his, but it has worked out well for me. The big differences will come when adapting the throttle pedal to operate the TBI. More on that later.
The TBI unit everyone usually specifies is from a 4.3L V6 from a Chevy S-10 or Astro van, but I have found that the same one is used on 4.1L and 4.5L V8s in late 80s Cadillacs. This cost me about 20 bucks at my local junkyard. You may need some Torx head screwdrivers to remove it. The injector pods definitely have Torx screws, so I would recommend bringing some to the j-yard. The TPS should still be connected to it so take along an ohmmeter with you to verify its operation. The TPS is just a potentiometer on the end of the butterfly axis. The resistance between 2 of the 3 wires should vary smoothly as it the throttle is opened and closed. Clip the wires as long as possible when removing the TBI, but keep all the connectors attached to the TBI. Normally the junkyard will not charge extra for the attached connectors.
The coolant and air temperature sensors can be exactly the same. Almost all GM sensors will have the same resistance curve. The only differences are the type of connectors. Getting these from a junker is like your sister, cheap and easy. You can buy these from an autoparts place for about $9 each, but you do not get the connector with them. See the MS wiring guide for more details.
Call it what you want, oxygen sensor, EGO, or O2 this thing rocks. The oxygen sensor is optional, but I highly recommend it. Tuning the mixture is much easier with the sensor to let you know if it is rich or lean. You can use any narrow-band 1-wire, 3-wire, or 4-wire sensor or a wide-band sensor with controller. The difference is the narrow-band sensors only read rich or lean, the wide-band can tell you how far rich or lean. I used a new 3-wire sensor from Ebay with universal crimp connectors, so I will focus on those. Narrow-band EGO sensors use 1-wire to transmit the voltage reading from 0 to 1 volt back to the computer. The problem is they need to be at operating temperature to work correctly. The 3-wire sensors use the other 2 wires to supply 12V and ground to a heater element to bring the temperature up quickly. The 4-wire sensors include an external ground for the sensor reading.
To mount the oxygen sensor in the exhaust system, you use a threaded bung (unless you are an engineer at Toyota – ask an 80 series owner). You can buy threaded bungs, but the easiest thing to do is go to any autoparts place and get an 18mm spark plug anti-fouler from the HELP section. Cut the end off and voila, you have a threaded bung.
The fuel pump needs to put out like the prom queen at homecoming, or at least 15 PSI – way more than the stock mechanical pump can produce. I bought an electric fuel pump from Summit; it is more specifically an MSD 2550 and cost around 80 bones. Don’t worry a lot about too much pressure because the fuel return system will take care of it. The pressure regulator on the TBI will limit the amount in the feed line if the pump you choose can operate the fountains at the Bellagio.
The fuel filter I bought came from Summit as well. The filter is rated at 100 PSI, costs around $15, and adds some bling to the engine compartment (see fig #).
Fuel lines are easier than I expected. Go buy some 5/16-inch EFI-rated fuel line and clamps from the drone behind the counter at Pep Boys. 10-feet and 52,000 clamps should suffice. The tricky part is getting the fuel fittings and hard lines to tie into the TBI. I noticed some cool barb fitting type on Man-a-fre’s site, but I used some generic ones from Autozone. For the supply side I used Motormite or Dorban p/n 800151 (Saginaw or metric to 3/8” line) and for the return side I found Motormite or Dorban p/n 800153 (Saginaw or metric to 5/16” line). These give you the funky fittings to the TBI with about 18-inches of hard line.
For the throttle cable I bought a universal, steel-braided set-up made by Spectre from the local parts place. Your mileage may vary because of differences in TBI adaptors and the stock linkage on the TBI unit. I will discuss my booty-fab throttle assembly later.
The adapter to the air filter is made easy by snagging the stock cleaner from your uncle Vito’s caddy (see fig #). You couldn’t walk 3 feet into the Cadillac area of the junkyard without seeing one of these. I’ll detail how I made mine work later on.
The actual Megasquirt unit, the relay board, the stimulator board, all the capacitors, transistors, resistors, pots, LEDs, diodes, and the Aluminum cases came from Glen’s Garage www..glensgarage.com. It cost about $250 and took about 8 to 9 weeks to get. If your CFO approves this project, I would get a material notice-to-proceed and order one right away. Although Glen seems to be a great guy, the lead-time on his product is tremendous. To order all the components separately from 3 or 4 different vendors seems like a real ordeal, so I was thankful someone else was putting kits together for such a reasonable price. If you need any more details check out the MS site.
The wiring purchase was similar to the MS rig. Buying all the wire in different colors would end up costing around $40. I bought a kit from Rodney at RS Autosports that included enough wire to run multi-port injection on a Ferrari V-12 for $55 delivered. The beauty of his stuff is that each wire is labeled with its function every foot (see fig #). This only took about 2 weeks to get.
Computer assembly - installation:
Putting the MS circuit board together is per directions. It took me about 5 hours of soldering split over 2 weeknights. Soldering for me has always been absolutely painful, burning and hideous, like athlete’s foot. I was a little worried about assembling this, but a few soldering tips from the MS site got me going well. Soldering is like welding, go figure. Make sure the surfaces are clean, heat the objects to be fused, add some filler rod, and your done. I assembled the test board or stimulator first to get the hang of it. If monkeys can get termites with a stick, you can solder.
Finally some of the FJ60 specific details you have read this far for. I mounted the MS box in the blank in the dash under the stereo. I had to remove an amp the PO had crammed behind the blank under the stereo to run the crappy rear speakers. I thought about mounting the MS out of sight until someone pointed out the bling factor of the polished Al case and LEDs, not to mention the connector for programming is easily accessible (fig 1). I mounted the relay board, more on this later, to a piece of sheet metal where the carb-cooling fan once resided (fig 2).
Building the cable to connect the MS box to the relay board was a PITA. I have a few tips on this if anyone gets to this point. I used 22-gauge wire for everything except the 4 - 16 gauge injector wires.
Sensors and wiring:
To this point your 2F should still be in running condition, your carb, fuel system, throttle linkage, and vacuum lines should still be in place sans the carb-cooling fan. The whole process will go easier if all your squirrels are spinning their cages so you may want to verify you have good compression, adjusted valves, steady vacuum at idle, and timing set.
Now is the time you can install all the sensors on the engine and read them with the MS. I was stupid I did not do this. In theory this should work and if I had to do it over again I would try it.
My location of sensors may not work for you so use your own judgment. I installed the coolant temperature sensor in place of the top BVSV in the thermostat housing. The stock one allows vacuum to advance the distributor once the engine is warmed up, and no you will not need it with the TBI because the computer will control fuel fixture under warm-up conditions. Just connect the two vacuum lines from the removed sensor together for now.
The intake air temperature sensor can just sit in the engine compartment for now. I ended up mounting mine in the bottom of the air cleaner housing where some stock component once resided.
The tach signal comes from the negative side of the coil, simple, or is it? I needed to add about 10K ohms resistance in the wire to reduce signal spikes during cranking.
The oxygen sensor needs to be installed in the exhaust. Closer to the engine is better. I drilled a hole and welded the sensor bung to the collector pipe that connects my 2-piece header just before the catalytic converter. This happened to be the easiest section for me to remove as well. It unbolts at one end from the headers and unbolts at the other from a flange at the cat. Run the signal wire to the relay board and, if applicable, the heater wires to switched 12V and ground. The fuel pump circuit works well for this.
You will need to ground the relay box and provide it with 12V hot and switched 12V. Once you have everything in place, run the engine with the carb. Hook up your PC or laptop to the MS box and check the sensor readings.
Mine read all the sensors correctly the first time it started. Unless you have a bad ground somewhere, it should be all good.
Installing the TBI and fuel lines:
Start by removing the carburetor, the throttle linkage, fuel pump, fuel lines to the frame rails, and all the vacuum lines to the distributor and carb. Make sure to mark which fuel line goes to the stock filter. I left all the EGR and smog equipment in place as I am required to do annual smog checks in Clark County, NV. Talk to me if you want more details on the smog equipment.
I reused the heat shield and insulator block the carb sits on, and I suspect that most other installations would need to also. I cleaned up the surfaces with some Scotchbrite pads and sealed them back up with some new gaskets and high temp silicone. My TBI would only fit with the throttle assembly on the outside but other adapters may have different orientations.
Running the fuel lines is easier than I expected. Connect the old frame-mounted, steel supply line to a short piece of EFI rubber hose; do the same for the return line. I used a 5/16-inch tube bender to make some bends in the steel lines from the TBI unit over the back of the valve cover towards the frame-mounted hard lines. Connect the smaller fitting side to the rubber return line and the larger fitting side to one side of the fuel filter. By pure dumb-luck, the fuel filter I bought fit into the stock bracket. I left the supply side open so I could blow compressed air through the line to determine which hard line was the supply side at the fuel tank.
Consider this fair warning, electric fuel pumps are noisy. They seem to range from a gentle hum to a swarm of locusts. The MSD I am using will blend in easily with the cicadas around ‘Vegas in the summertime. I mounted the MSD fuel pump to the cross member close to the fuel tank where it was easy to cut into the stock, frame-mounted lines. By disconnecting the rubber fuel lines near the tank and blowing compressed air into them, I was able to determine which was the supply and which was the return. I cut the supply line and connected EFI rated rubber lines to the fuel pump. The return line was left intact. While you are under there, it is probably a good idea to replace the 20-year-old rubber lines to the fuel tank with new EFI rubber lines. I also took the time to inspect the steel lines along the frame while I ran the wires from the fuel pump to the engine compartment and over to the MS relay board. Just a note, the fuel pump is polarity sensitive, so make sure your wiring to the relay board is connected as such.
At this point you should be ready to play plumber. Verify that all the fuel line connections are secure and the TBI is secured down and the fuel fittings are snug. When you turn the key to “on”, the fuel pump should prime for 2 seconds. Check for leaks in the system. Fix any before you go on. Once the system is secure, prime the TBI a couple of times by turning the key on and off. Look for a small “squirt” from the TBI injectors. This pulse of the injectors is equal to the priming pulse set in the MS parameters. If you get a decent squirt at the throttle body, you are almost set to go.
Throttle linkage:
Because the stock carburetor uses a mechanical linkage and the TBI generally uses a cable assembly, some modifications to the pedal are required. The other problem is that my TBI adapter places the cable throttle assembly backwards, that is, it needs to pull from the front of the vehicle not from the firewall. I needed to scrap the stock TBI throttle bracket and create my own with a pulley to redirect the pulling motion of the cable (rule number 3 of engineering – you can’t push a rope). The stock pedal assembly on my 87 has a provision for a hand throttle that I had rigged up a cable system to operate with the carb, but this connection point on the pedal is not strong enough to operate a cable to the TBI. So in addition to the TBI throttle bracket I also needed to create a strong leverage anchor point on the throttle pedal. I only took some rough measurements at the time I was fabricating the parts, so I do not have a good set of plans. The best I can do is to show some pictures of what I did. With the whole thing rigged up, it works very smooth. The stock return spring on the TBI and the stock return spring on the pedal assembly are adequate to close the butterfly and return the pedal.
Starting:
Once all the hardware is in place, it is time to get your rig started. Make sure you have a good battery and a charger on hand, because it might take a bit of cranking to get the engine started. I started by putting some generic numbers in the MS Tuner. My numbers are based on using a GM TBI with low-impedance injectors and an MS v2.0 board with the flyback daughter card installed. On my initial install I did not include the flyback card and eventually the additional current required for the injectors fried an FET in the system.
Tuning:
Tuning the MS EFI is similar to tuning a carburetor… only cleaner. You need to get it to idle first.
(to be continued...)
2F – TBI Using Megasquirt (Long)
No Megasquirt is not the latest release from vivid videos, it is a fully user programmable fuel injection controller from the brilliant minds of Al Grippo and Bruce Bowling. I do not know these guys personally, but they have done a great job of developing both hardware and software to control fuel delivery to any internal combustion engine on the planet. People are using this system on everything from lawnmowers to dragsters. All the details of the system are on their website, but I will cover some of the topics and how I applied them to my 87 FJ60.
I am not the type of person to jump into things spur of the moment, hell I plan what cereal I am going to eat for breakfast the night before, so I did quite a bit of research before I settled on using Megasquirt (MS) for my TBI conversion. To give you an idea, I won the TBI adapter in an IH8MUD raffle from Spaceghost quite a while ago. I read about programming a stock GM 774747 chip and about some of the nightmares associated with the full TBI kits out there. My rig has always run well with the carb, but also tended to stumble off idle. What prompted me to change was a trip to Cedar City for some wheeling. I kept ahead of my buddy with his Powersmoke towing his mini on the highway, but offroad and at odd angles I kept stalling. It seemed like the altitude and steep angles were killing me. So I decided to wait until after the New Year and make the switch to TBI. I read a couple of testimonials from people on the MS site who have installed it on their ‘cruisers, so I decided to give it a shot on my FJ60.
MS is very simple…once you get to know it. At first, assembling the board, soldering chips, wiring sensors, and programming a computer seems like a job suited only to some pencil-necked geek wearing a buttoned-down, white shirt with a pocket protector working in a cramped cubicle under flickering, fluorescent lamps, however, any gear-head cruiserholic should be capable of getting their tractor engine running on MS.
MS only needs input from a handful of sensors to make it work. For a TBI application it is really only replacing your carburetor and all its odd vacuum pots with a computer controlled throttle body injector. The MS needs coolant temperature (CLT), intake air temperature (IAT), manifold air pressure (MAP), throttle position (TPS), exhaust oxygen (EGO – optional) and tachometer signal (RPMS). The MS computer calculates how much air mass is going into the engine (CLT, IAT, MAP) then responds to the fuel injectors based on how much load is on the engine (MAP), how much the throttle is open and how fast it is opening or closing (TPS) and how fast the engine is turning (RPMS). It is also capable of making changes to the injector flow based on how rich or lean the engine is running (EGO).
The system I set up includes the Megasquirt box and a relay board. The relay board helps clean things up a bit. It provides a location to end all the sensor and injector leads, houses a relay for the fuel pump, and fuses for the system. The MS box simply connects to the relay board via an interface cable.
OK, enough of the theory crap, if you wanted a physics lesson you wouldn’t have skipped class to get loaded with your buddies. Questions: Does it work in a cruiser? Where can I buy it? How long does it take to do? How much does it cost? Can I smoke some 37s and only need 1 tank of gas to get to Moab? Answers: Yes. Check www.megasquirt.info/index.html. A spell. Less than $700. In low range with 5.29s and if you live in Green River.
Accumulation:
The parts you need to make this work are pretty simple and not too expensive. If you buy one of the full TBI kits out there, you end up spending a lot more money and get a lot less flexibility. Here is my parts list; most of the stuff is straight out the junkyard (JY):
Part Source Cost
TBI adapter to 2F manifold IH8MUD $Free.thirty-free for myself
Throttle body w/ injectors (more below) JY 20
Coolant & Air temperature (same for both) JY 10
Oxygen sensor, heated (3 wire) Ebay 40
Bung for O2 sensor Autozone / CSK 10
Megasquirt, full kit Glen’s garage 250
Wiring, full RS Autosports 55
Electric fuel pump Summit 100
Fuel Filter Summit 15
Fuel line, fittings Autozone 40
Throttle cable CSK 25
Air filter adapter (some fab work) JY Free
Total 565
I ended up spending a little more (about $50) for some odds and ends like wire looms, solder, a new wire stripper/crimper, a TBI rebuild kit, some extra injectors, some additional fuel line, and a few nuts and bolts. Prices do not include busted knuckles, #6 consumed, fire extinguishers, skeptical looks from friends and family, and huffing lots of gas fumes.
The TBI adaptor can come from any of the vendors that make one, the only differences being the orientation of the TBI on top of the intake. I am not sure if Spaceghost is still making his, but it has worked out well for me. The big differences will come when adapting the throttle pedal to operate the TBI. More on that later.
The TBI unit everyone usually specifies is from a 4.3L V6 from a Chevy S-10 or Astro van, but I have found that the same one is used on 4.1L and 4.5L V8s in late 80s Cadillacs. This cost me about 20 bucks at my local junkyard. You may need some Torx head screwdrivers to remove it. The injector pods definitely have Torx screws, so I would recommend bringing some to the j-yard. The TPS should still be connected to it so take along an ohmmeter with you to verify its operation. The TPS is just a potentiometer on the end of the butterfly axis. The resistance between 2 of the 3 wires should vary smoothly as it the throttle is opened and closed. Clip the wires as long as possible when removing the TBI, but keep all the connectors attached to the TBI. Normally the junkyard will not charge extra for the attached connectors.
The coolant and air temperature sensors can be exactly the same. Almost all GM sensors will have the same resistance curve. The only differences are the type of connectors. Getting these from a junker is like your sister, cheap and easy. You can buy these from an autoparts place for about $9 each, but you do not get the connector with them. See the MS wiring guide for more details.
Call it what you want, oxygen sensor, EGO, or O2 this thing rocks. The oxygen sensor is optional, but I highly recommend it. Tuning the mixture is much easier with the sensor to let you know if it is rich or lean. You can use any narrow-band 1-wire, 3-wire, or 4-wire sensor or a wide-band sensor with controller. The difference is the narrow-band sensors only read rich or lean, the wide-band can tell you how far rich or lean. I used a new 3-wire sensor from Ebay with universal crimp connectors, so I will focus on those. Narrow-band EGO sensors use 1-wire to transmit the voltage reading from 0 to 1 volt back to the computer. The problem is they need to be at operating temperature to work correctly. The 3-wire sensors use the other 2 wires to supply 12V and ground to a heater element to bring the temperature up quickly. The 4-wire sensors include an external ground for the sensor reading.
To mount the oxygen sensor in the exhaust system, you use a threaded bung (unless you are an engineer at Toyota – ask an 80 series owner). You can buy threaded bungs, but the easiest thing to do is go to any autoparts place and get an 18mm spark plug anti-fouler from the HELP section. Cut the end off and voila, you have a threaded bung.
The fuel pump needs to put out like the prom queen at homecoming, or at least 15 PSI – way more than the stock mechanical pump can produce. I bought an electric fuel pump from Summit; it is more specifically an MSD 2550 and cost around 80 bones. Don’t worry a lot about too much pressure because the fuel return system will take care of it. The pressure regulator on the TBI will limit the amount in the feed line if the pump you choose can operate the fountains at the Bellagio.
The fuel filter I bought came from Summit as well. The filter is rated at 100 PSI, costs around $15, and adds some bling to the engine compartment (see fig #).
Fuel lines are easier than I expected. Go buy some 5/16-inch EFI-rated fuel line and clamps from the drone behind the counter at Pep Boys. 10-feet and 52,000 clamps should suffice. The tricky part is getting the fuel fittings and hard lines to tie into the TBI. I noticed some cool barb fitting type on Man-a-fre’s site, but I used some generic ones from Autozone. For the supply side I used Motormite or Dorban p/n 800151 (Saginaw or metric to 3/8” line) and for the return side I found Motormite or Dorban p/n 800153 (Saginaw or metric to 5/16” line). These give you the funky fittings to the TBI with about 18-inches of hard line.
For the throttle cable I bought a universal, steel-braided set-up made by Spectre from the local parts place. Your mileage may vary because of differences in TBI adaptors and the stock linkage on the TBI unit. I will discuss my booty-fab throttle assembly later.
The adapter to the air filter is made easy by snagging the stock cleaner from your uncle Vito’s caddy (see fig #). You couldn’t walk 3 feet into the Cadillac area of the junkyard without seeing one of these. I’ll detail how I made mine work later on.
The actual Megasquirt unit, the relay board, the stimulator board, all the capacitors, transistors, resistors, pots, LEDs, diodes, and the Aluminum cases came from Glen’s Garage www..glensgarage.com. It cost about $250 and took about 8 to 9 weeks to get. If your CFO approves this project, I would get a material notice-to-proceed and order one right away. Although Glen seems to be a great guy, the lead-time on his product is tremendous. To order all the components separately from 3 or 4 different vendors seems like a real ordeal, so I was thankful someone else was putting kits together for such a reasonable price. If you need any more details check out the MS site.
The wiring purchase was similar to the MS rig. Buying all the wire in different colors would end up costing around $40. I bought a kit from Rodney at RS Autosports that included enough wire to run multi-port injection on a Ferrari V-12 for $55 delivered. The beauty of his stuff is that each wire is labeled with its function every foot (see fig #). This only took about 2 weeks to get.
Computer assembly - installation:
Putting the MS circuit board together is per directions. It took me about 5 hours of soldering split over 2 weeknights. Soldering for me has always been absolutely painful, burning and hideous, like athlete’s foot. I was a little worried about assembling this, but a few soldering tips from the MS site got me going well. Soldering is like welding, go figure. Make sure the surfaces are clean, heat the objects to be fused, add some filler rod, and your done. I assembled the test board or stimulator first to get the hang of it. If monkeys can get termites with a stick, you can solder.
Finally some of the FJ60 specific details you have read this far for. I mounted the MS box in the blank in the dash under the stereo. I had to remove an amp the PO had crammed behind the blank under the stereo to run the crappy rear speakers. I thought about mounting the MS out of sight until someone pointed out the bling factor of the polished Al case and LEDs, not to mention the connector for programming is easily accessible (fig 1). I mounted the relay board, more on this later, to a piece of sheet metal where the carb-cooling fan once resided (fig 2).
Building the cable to connect the MS box to the relay board was a PITA. I have a few tips on this if anyone gets to this point. I used 22-gauge wire for everything except the 4 - 16 gauge injector wires.
Sensors and wiring:
To this point your 2F should still be in running condition, your carb, fuel system, throttle linkage, and vacuum lines should still be in place sans the carb-cooling fan. The whole process will go easier if all your squirrels are spinning their cages so you may want to verify you have good compression, adjusted valves, steady vacuum at idle, and timing set.
Now is the time you can install all the sensors on the engine and read them with the MS. I was stupid I did not do this. In theory this should work and if I had to do it over again I would try it.
My location of sensors may not work for you so use your own judgment. I installed the coolant temperature sensor in place of the top BVSV in the thermostat housing. The stock one allows vacuum to advance the distributor once the engine is warmed up, and no you will not need it with the TBI because the computer will control fuel fixture under warm-up conditions. Just connect the two vacuum lines from the removed sensor together for now.
The intake air temperature sensor can just sit in the engine compartment for now. I ended up mounting mine in the bottom of the air cleaner housing where some stock component once resided.
The tach signal comes from the negative side of the coil, simple, or is it? I needed to add about 10K ohms resistance in the wire to reduce signal spikes during cranking.
The oxygen sensor needs to be installed in the exhaust. Closer to the engine is better. I drilled a hole and welded the sensor bung to the collector pipe that connects my 2-piece header just before the catalytic converter. This happened to be the easiest section for me to remove as well. It unbolts at one end from the headers and unbolts at the other from a flange at the cat. Run the signal wire to the relay board and, if applicable, the heater wires to switched 12V and ground. The fuel pump circuit works well for this.
You will need to ground the relay box and provide it with 12V hot and switched 12V. Once you have everything in place, run the engine with the carb. Hook up your PC or laptop to the MS box and check the sensor readings.
Mine read all the sensors correctly the first time it started. Unless you have a bad ground somewhere, it should be all good.
Installing the TBI and fuel lines:
Start by removing the carburetor, the throttle linkage, fuel pump, fuel lines to the frame rails, and all the vacuum lines to the distributor and carb. Make sure to mark which fuel line goes to the stock filter. I left all the EGR and smog equipment in place as I am required to do annual smog checks in Clark County, NV. Talk to me if you want more details on the smog equipment.
I reused the heat shield and insulator block the carb sits on, and I suspect that most other installations would need to also. I cleaned up the surfaces with some Scotchbrite pads and sealed them back up with some new gaskets and high temp silicone. My TBI would only fit with the throttle assembly on the outside but other adapters may have different orientations.
Running the fuel lines is easier than I expected. Connect the old frame-mounted, steel supply line to a short piece of EFI rubber hose; do the same for the return line. I used a 5/16-inch tube bender to make some bends in the steel lines from the TBI unit over the back of the valve cover towards the frame-mounted hard lines. Connect the smaller fitting side to the rubber return line and the larger fitting side to one side of the fuel filter. By pure dumb-luck, the fuel filter I bought fit into the stock bracket. I left the supply side open so I could blow compressed air through the line to determine which hard line was the supply side at the fuel tank.
Consider this fair warning, electric fuel pumps are noisy. They seem to range from a gentle hum to a swarm of locusts. The MSD I am using will blend in easily with the cicadas around ‘Vegas in the summertime. I mounted the MSD fuel pump to the cross member close to the fuel tank where it was easy to cut into the stock, frame-mounted lines. By disconnecting the rubber fuel lines near the tank and blowing compressed air into them, I was able to determine which was the supply and which was the return. I cut the supply line and connected EFI rated rubber lines to the fuel pump. The return line was left intact. While you are under there, it is probably a good idea to replace the 20-year-old rubber lines to the fuel tank with new EFI rubber lines. I also took the time to inspect the steel lines along the frame while I ran the wires from the fuel pump to the engine compartment and over to the MS relay board. Just a note, the fuel pump is polarity sensitive, so make sure your wiring to the relay board is connected as such.
At this point you should be ready to play plumber. Verify that all the fuel line connections are secure and the TBI is secured down and the fuel fittings are snug. When you turn the key to “on”, the fuel pump should prime for 2 seconds. Check for leaks in the system. Fix any before you go on. Once the system is secure, prime the TBI a couple of times by turning the key on and off. Look for a small “squirt” from the TBI injectors. This pulse of the injectors is equal to the priming pulse set in the MS parameters. If you get a decent squirt at the throttle body, you are almost set to go.
Throttle linkage:
Because the stock carburetor uses a mechanical linkage and the TBI generally uses a cable assembly, some modifications to the pedal are required. The other problem is that my TBI adapter places the cable throttle assembly backwards, that is, it needs to pull from the front of the vehicle not from the firewall. I needed to scrap the stock TBI throttle bracket and create my own with a pulley to redirect the pulling motion of the cable (rule number 3 of engineering – you can’t push a rope). The stock pedal assembly on my 87 has a provision for a hand throttle that I had rigged up a cable system to operate with the carb, but this connection point on the pedal is not strong enough to operate a cable to the TBI. So in addition to the TBI throttle bracket I also needed to create a strong leverage anchor point on the throttle pedal. I only took some rough measurements at the time I was fabricating the parts, so I do not have a good set of plans. The best I can do is to show some pictures of what I did. With the whole thing rigged up, it works very smooth. The stock return spring on the TBI and the stock return spring on the pedal assembly are adequate to close the butterfly and return the pedal.
Starting:
Once all the hardware is in place, it is time to get your rig started. Make sure you have a good battery and a charger on hand, because it might take a bit of cranking to get the engine started. I started by putting some generic numbers in the MS Tuner. My numbers are based on using a GM TBI with low-impedance injectors and an MS v2.0 board with the flyback daughter card installed. On my initial install I did not include the flyback card and eventually the additional current required for the injectors fried an FET in the system.
Tuning:
Tuning the MS EFI is similar to tuning a carburetor… only cleaner. You need to get it to idle first.
(to be continued...)
I have a 3fe in the for sale section. The head and related part are good and ready to be a conversion to a 2fe. All emissions stuff included
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=145164
$300 come and pick it up.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=145164
$300 come and pick it up.
