Front wheels turn at different angles. ‘94 Land Cruiser. (1 Viewer)

[Angeltech]

Hello, my front wheels turn at different angles. I have had slop/play in my steering since I bought the Cruiser a year and an half ago. I also noticed my wheels turn at different angles when I parked my truck with the wheels slightly turned(pic added). I finally found a local shop that works on 80 series. I took my truck in for the slop/play in the steering and forgot to mention the difference in front wheel angles. They told me for the slop/play it was the tie rods so they replaced them and sent my Cruiser out for an alignment. I spent a lot of money for this repair and as a side note I really don’t notice much difference in the slop/play in steering. Anyway, should the difference in wheel angles have been discovered by whoever did the alignment? I need to get this resolved because I have to sell my Land Cruiser. Thank you for any help

 

[mudgudgeon]

There will always be some difference in wheel angle due to the Ackerman Angle / ackerman geometry.

Hard to say from one pic if yours is typical, or if something funky is going on.

All modern mass produced cars use axkerman geometry. It causes the inside wheel to steer into a corner more than the outside wheel. This is necessary so both front wheels keep traction and don't skid.

If your cruiser had been lifted, and no caster correction done, wheel angle can look odd

 

[Mark W]

As mentioned above... but putting it a bit more strongly... The wheels have to turn at different angles. Absolutely correct and normal. Your alignment guy did not "discover it" because he was already aware of it... or he should not be allowed to do alignments.

You have nothing here to resolve.

IF you do in fact have excessive play, look for looseness in the steering box (uncommon), the frame (cracking) at the panhard bar tower, the trailing arm bushings (not a common problem, but worth checking) and the knuckle and wheel bearings. Play in the bearings would most likey have been noticed during the alignment. The other issues might have been missed. Particularly the frame crack and a loose steering box.

Mark...

 

[Angeltech]

There will always be some difference in wheel angle due to the Ackerman Angle / ackerman geometry.

Hard to say from one pic if yours is typical, or if something funky is going on.

All modern mass produced cars use axkerman geometry. It causes the inside wheel to steer into a corner more than the outside wheel. This is necessary so both front wheels keep traction and don't skid.

If your cruiser had been lifted, and no caster correction done, wheel angle can look odd

Thank you very much for the response. I am not going to worry about it then. Thanks again.

 

[cruzinfj1]

Take another pic from the front with the wheels turned like that, and then to the right. Something isnt right there. Snap a couple of the drag link and tie rod also. Its either a bad picture angle or something is ****ed up. My LX on 40s is somewhat noticeable, but nowhere near that extreme. My stock '94 doesn't look like that either.

 

[Proven]

Hello, my front wheels turn at different angles. I have had slop/play in my steering since I bought the Cruiser a year and an half ago. I also noticed my wheels turn at different angles when I parked my truck with the wheels slightly turned(pic added). I finally found a local shop that works on 80 series. I took my truck in for the slop/play in the steering and forgot to mention the difference in front wheel angles. They told me for the slop/play it was the tie rods so they replaced them and sent my Cruiser out for an alignment. I spent a lot of money for this repair and as a side note I really don’t notice much difference in the slop/play in steering. Anyway, should the difference in wheel angles have been discovered by whoever did the alignment? I need to get this resolved because I have to sell my Land Cruiser. Thank you for any help

View attachment 3788889

Okay, how does it look when straight or turned the other way?

 

[BILT4ME]

Your wheels turn the same because there is only (1) tie rod that literally holds them together so it forces them to turn the same.

The only other possibility would be if your steering arms have loose studs on the bottom (torque to 76 LB-FT). If they are loose the entire steering is very loose and it will have delayed steering input as you drive. This part is very dangerous. However, if you just had it aligned, the shop tech should have caught that.

 

[Mark W]

Your wheels turn the same because there is only (1) tie rod that literally holds them together so it forces them to turn the same.

The only other possibility would be if your steering arms have loose studs on the bottom (torque to 76 LB-FT). If they are loose the entire steering is very loose and it will have delayed steering input as you drive. This part is very dangerous. However, if you just had it aligned, the shop tech should have caught that.

They turn together. But they do not turn the same. The angle of the knuckle arms makes them turn at different rates, dependent on which way you are turning. the inside wheel on a turn follows a shorter path than the outside wheel and has to be turned at a sharper angle.

Mark...

 

[Angeltech]

As mentioned above... but putting it a bit more strongly... The wheels have to turn at different angles. Absolutely correct and normal. Your alignment guy did not "discover it" because he was already aware of it... or he should not be allowed to do alignments.

You have nothing here to resolve.

IF you do in fact have excessive play, look for looseness in the steering box (uncommon), the frame (cracking) at the panhard bar tower, the trailing arm bushings (not a common problem, but worth checking) and the knuckle and wheel bearings. Play in the bearings would most likey have been noticed during the alignment. The other issues might have been missed. Particularly the frame crack and a loose steering box.

Mark...

Thank you Mark for the added info. It is a shame I took my truck to a shop that works on Land Cruisers for the sole intention of having the steering play fixed and being told it was the trailing arms and spending around $1,400 for the work(including alignment) and still having the steering play issue. I will look into the other probable causes you have mentioned. I sure appreciate the help.

 

[Angeltech]

Take another pic from the front with the wheels turned like that, and then to the right. Something isnt right there. Snap a couple of the drag link and tie rod also. Its either a bad picture angle or something is ****ed up. My LX on 40s is somewhat noticeable, but nowhere near that extreme. My stock '94 doesn't look like that either.

I will take pics and post them tomorrow, thanks.

 

[Angeltech]

Okay, how does it look when straight or turned the other way?

It seems to look ok from the front but not sure turned the other way. I will take pics and post them tomorrow, thank you.

 

[Angeltech]

Here are pics of the wheels straight ahead, turned all of the way left and all of the way right. As you can see in the pics, which ever direction the wheels are turned then that particular wheel turns at a great angle. I have no clue what that means but I am hoping someone else does, thanks.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Your cruiser looks very stock standard?

Does it have any lift?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Your last two pics look very symetrical.
Camera position was maybe slightly different for both.

If the wheel angles are consistent when turned all the way to the right, and when turned all the way to the left, this is normal.

Your pics look consisted to me, but I'm not standing there.

Exveption is if something is badly loose or badly bent underneath.

In this diagram, front right wheel has to turn at a shape angle, it has to drive along a tighter turn radius.
If both tires had the same angle, one wheel would skid.

FWIW
Pics of my work truck ( pardon the blue oval on the front )

 

[Angeltech]

Your cruiser looks very stock standard?

Does it have any lift?

Yes it has a lift but I am not sure how much. It has 33” tires. Here is a side pic.

 

[Angeltech]

Your last two pics look very symetrical.
Camera position was maybe slightly different for both.

If the wheel angles are consistent when turned all the way to the right, and when turned all the way to the left, this is normal.

Your pics look consisted to me, but I'm not standing there.

Exveption is if something is badly loose or badly bent underneath.

View attachment 3790943
In this diagram, front right wheel has to turn at a shape angle, it has to drive along a tighter turn radius.
If both tires had the same angle, one wheel would skid.

FWIW
Pics of my work truck ( pardon the blue oval on the front )

View attachment 3790946View attachment 3790947

Oh ok, I see, thanks for the added pics. I wasn’t going to respond to you after seeing the blue oval, kidding of course. Your truck wheels look like mine so I feel better. My truck drives fine and I do not notice any issue driving/turning.

 

[Angeltech]

Oh ok, I see, thanks for the added pics. I wasn’t going to respond to you after seeing the blue oval, kidding of course. Your truck wheels look like mine so I feel better. My truck drives fine and I do not notice any issue driving/turning.

I shouldn’t have issues because the truck only has 107k original miles.

 

[SpenserAK]

If only it were linear like that... generally speaking, who knows what happened during past ownership, and it's still 30 years old. I think your truck is fine in this regard, though.

 

[Angeltech]

If only it were linear like that... generally speaking, who knows what happened during past ownership, and it's still 30 years old. I think your truck is fine in this regard, though.

You’re right plus who knows if anyone has tinkered underneath other than the lift. Thanks for your input.

 

[cruzinfj1]

I'm betting there is something up with the passenger side. Have you checked the trunion bearing caps and your steering arms? I know you said it went to a shop, but.....

If you're steering wheel is centered in the first pic, it looks to me like its toed way out.