Front Seat Loudness (1 Viewer)

[Sundowner]

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I've owned my 73 for approximately 26 hours now, but I've succumbed to tinkering with it; I'm pretty sure that's a personal best, though. The basic situation is this: my driver's seat makes a ton of noise and it's...well, loose. Not in the floor connection, but more in the hinge area between the seat and the back, and in the tracks. Wasn't too bad until about halfway through the 600-mile drive home...and that's when we started getting squeaks, groans, pops, unhappy spring noises, and a few grating clunks at random times. I think something is loose or worn in the...well, maybe in several areas.

Suggestions on a repair process? Or, possibly better, can I just buy a new seat frame/riser and eliminate all of the possible problems at once? It's nothing direly important, but it's pretty loud and annoying and I would like to go ahead and fix it.

Thanks in advance for the help, and apologies for being a complete newbie.

 

[LDowney]

Do you have suspension seats? The suspension mechanism could be a potential contributor too. Recently, I have noticed some occasional out of my drivers side suspension based so I am going to pull the seat and base tomorrow. No clear plan ... inspect, then service and repair as required.

Good luck

 

[sodafeld1]

take it out, flip it upside down and have a look

 

[JuanJ]

Hello,

If you have suspension seats, the mechanism needs a good cleanup and some lubricant.

If you do not have suspension seats, there is something else. Take the chance to clean up the rails.

Make sure the seat bolts are properly tightened. Recommended torque is 39 N m / 29 ft lb.





Juan

 

[Sundowner]

I think "take it out and have a look" is going to be the order of the day; I kind of have the major parts of it isolated to the left hinge and the suspension mechanisms - and yes, it's a suspension seat - but it feels like there may be some wear and tear elsewhere. I'm sure it's time for a good cleaning and lubrication, so that certainly won't hurt to do. I'll check seat bolts at the time.

What's odd is how different the passenger seat feels; literally no noise from it at all, and so much less wobble and clunking. That's why I'm thinking that something in the hinge area is broken or seriously worn.

 

[LDowney]

Drivers seat gets more use is the obvious cause

 

[Sundowner]

Drivers seat gets more use is the obvious cause

I mean, you're not wrong... I'm just kind of shocked at how much louder and worn it is. I may have some time later today to pull it and see.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

I mean, you're not wrong... I'm just kind of shocked at how much louder and worn it is. I may have some time later today to pull it and see.

Does the noise go away if you lock the ”suspension” feature?

 

[Sundowner]

Does the noise go away if you lock the ”suspension” feature?

Negative. It's might be a bit lessened, but it's mostly the same symphony, either way. Also, it's basically the same no matter the suspension setting.

 

[LDowney]

I found a possible noise source in the suspension unit of the drivers seat; a broken bolt. Appears to be a fatigue failure. The bolt is a specialty one with a unique shoulder machined in. Pulled out a spare suspension seat that I will use while a order a replacement bolt or fabricate a replacement.

Once it is all back in, I will test for noise and function.

 

[Sundowner]

I found a possible noise source in the suspension unit of the drivers seat; a broken bolt. Appears to be a fatigue failure. The bolt is a specialty one with a unique shoulder machined in. Pulled out a spare suspension seat that I will use while a order a replacement bolt or fabricate a replacement.

Once it is all back in, I will test for noise and function.

Definitely let me know how that turns out. Also, do you have any pictures of said bolt? I'd like to see how the location matches up to what I'm experiencing.

 

[LDowney]

Definitely let me know how that turns out. Also, do you have any pictures of said bolt? I'd like to see how the location matches up to what I'm experiencing.

Regrettably, my phone took crappy pictures and I did not appreciate it until I down loaded them. If better are needed, I can take more.

Bolt

Base

The bolt goes into the hole that I am pointing at

 

[Sundowner]

No issues with the pictures; I followed them clearly enough. Thank you for posting them. Both of those bolts are looking nice and intact on my seat riser, and that section looks really solid. Very little wear and tear.

After another couple of drives, it seems that most of what I'm hearing seems to be a grating/grinding spring noise from... somewhere. It's hard to tell what it might be, honestly, but that's my best guess. But the louder, staccato clunk/pop is definitely coming from the left side at the rear - I can see movement in the seat base/back if I grab it and push/pull - and that noise is significant enough to feel via my feet, though the floorpan. I can also feel the grating/grinding noise, but not as much.

Also, the noises are almost entirely absent when a lighter driver is in the seat. At 125-ish pounds, the seat is silent; at 180 there's a ridiculous amount of noise.

 

[Sundowner]

Well, I've had the seat in and out three times, now...and the verdict is that I still don't know where all of the noise is coming from. I'm reasonable sure that it's somewhere in the slider assembly, or the spring base. Those are the only two areas that should - key word, there - be capable of producing the creaking, groaning, sounding-like-an-old-and-tired-spring noises that I'm hearing. Problem is, I can't tell which one - if either - is actually making any noise; unless I'm actually sitting in the seat, and unless the seat is securely bolted to the floorpan, it's hard to replicate the sounds. I did find three or four loose bolts and a shattered bushing in the outer hinge area, but that's all that was obviously wrong. I shot a bit of dry lube into the slider bushings, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact; I guess I can try something like a white lithium or a spray moly, and see if that improves things. If not...well, I guess it's going to be time to order seat hardware.

 

[Sundowner]

I decided to pull the seats one last time to look around; I'm glad that I did, because I might have found part of the looseness...

Looks like a stress crack in the floor pan/brace. It was hard to see until I had bright sunlight backlighting it. Underneath, it's more clear, now that I know what I'm looking for.

I'm thinking it was just a bad weld that got fatigued and finally let go. That's the rear mount on the inside of the driver's side, for reference. There's a slight crack in the front one, too.

I'm honestly not certain about how to fix this, because sheetmetal work isn't anything that I know about, at all. It looks like that bracing member could be hard to remove, though, so it might just be a process of grinding out the cracks and then pushing things into place and welding them up.

Thoughts?

Edit: it looks like part number 58183-90K00 is the correct replacement. Can someone confirm or correct that?

 

[flx]

Woh woh woh I can't imagine what kind if abuse was done to this truck for this to happen

 

[Sundowner]

That's the weird thing; it's not an abused truck. At least, it doesn't seem that way. Looking over everything else, there's no real stress, no damage... nothing more than wear and tear that's surprisingly light for a 32-year-old vehicle. It's very solid... except for that one part. My gut instinct is that it's a bad weld/part that just eventually failed; combined with the compression of the seat foam and the exhaust directly below it, it may have just given up under the weight of a heavier driver. I've looked at it, two friends of mine have looked at it - one is a professional body man and the other a very knowledgeable Toyota fan - and a guy that owns a Land Cruiser shop has looked at it...and we all found it to be very solid. Kind of odd, yes, but given a lack of damage in other areas...none of us found it symptomatic of abuse.

 

[cruisermatt]

Wow! That is crazy. The rest of this vehicle is in seriously top notch condition which makes this extra wild.

The previous owner wasn’t a big guy either!

 

[LDowney]

Great news that you found the source.

If it were me, the repairs might be challenging. I only have a MIG welder so I would need to repair it from the top since over-head welding with a MIG is not a delight and does not inspire confidence.

Based on your pictures, pulling your cracks should not present major difficulty. But regarding the bracket that has separated slightly, I would consider drilling two holes from the top through the floor seat pan so they would line up with flanges on the bracket. Then I would jack up the bracket from below to ensure the flanges made tight contact with the lower side of the floor pan. Once tight. plug weld the two holes closed so the flange and floor pan would be fastened together.
Removal of the carpet would probably be best so you will not have to worry about sparks from the welding or getting the carpet too dirty from grinding the welds flush for a clean repair.

Good luck

 

[Sundowner]

Matt, I've been thinking about that...and I actually emailed the PO about seat looseness, and he gave me an interesting clue in his response: "it's always been a bit loose but it didn't bother me." I think it actually cracked loose a long time ago...and based on the wear/tear that's only on the driver's seat, I think we're dealing with the original owner being a larger person. And I think the heat from the exhaust that's directly underneath probably didn't help things. All in all, I'm with you; it's a solid truck with a weird issue.

Great news that you found the source.

If it were me, the repairs might be challenging. I only have a MIG welder so I would need to repair it from the top since over-head welding with a MIG is not a delight and does not inspire confidence.

Based on your pictures, pulling your cracks should not present major difficulty. But regarding the bracket that has separated slightly, I would consider drilling two holes from the top through the floor seat pan so they would line up with flanges on the bracket. Then I would jack up the bracket from below to ensure the flanges made tight contact with the lower side of the floor pan. Once tight. plug weld the two holes closed so the flange and floor pan would be fastened together.
Removal of the carpet would probably be best so you will not have to worry about sparks from the welding or getting the carpet too dirty from grinding the welds flush for a clean repair.

Good luck

I've done overhead work before, but it was all on larger seams with deep recesses; hopefully the tack-tack-tack pattern that I would use here wouldn't offer a lot of chance for bad welds, but if I can figure a way to work from the top down, I will.

I like your idea about generating some additional plug welds; I was going to remove the brace entirely by cutting out the original welds, and then just replace it with a fresh piece of metal, but that's admittedly more work. The new part is $18, so I can order a couple of them in case the first one gets messed up; I have a weld cutter...somewhere.

Regardless, the carpet will definitely be removed. I'll pull it out of the general area and get a blanket in the way, and then I can do exactly as theorized: push/pull as needed, grind out the cracks and start filling them in. Then either re-weld the existing brace or install a new one. Then it's just a bit of matching primer/paint, and we're basically done. I could handle it in an afternoon...if I can find a space to work.