Front bumper frame mount cracked

[landcrusher24]

I have a heavy bumper and winch. I just noticed that the connection from from to bumper mount is cracked. I need to get this reinforced so it doesn’t happen again. I am thinking it needs to have the face cut off (with the mounting studs) and a sleeve put into the frame with a heavier mounting face plate.
Has anyone had this problem and have a good solution?
Does anyone have any recommendations for a good welder in the golden/Denver area ?

 

[bloc]

What model winch? Any hard pulls? If not, any off-road abuse? Which front bumper are you running?

This was always a concern for me after taking a look at how these bumpers mount.

 

[landcrusher24]

I’m running a badlands on it. I have had a couple pulls on it. No snatches or run up pulls, certainly not To the point where I feel like it’s gonna peel my car apart ?….Well I missed the notice cause it is. Off road abuse?…not anything that has been more than usual for a Rocky Mountain area. I live up a dirt road and it has its dips but this is a bit more than I would think.
The bumper is a victory I believe I don’t think they make it anymore. (I would not purchase it again at this point) I remember coming across one thread where someone had the same I think a few years earlier and almost ripped the front off too.

Do the other bumpers mount differently?

 

[landcrusher24]

I’m running a badlands on it. I have had a couple pulls on it. No snatches or run up pulls, certainly not To the point where I feel like it’s gonna peel my car apart ?….Well I missed the notice cause it is. Off road abuse?…not anything that has been more than usual for a Rocky Mountain area. I live up a dirt road and it has its dips but this is a bit more than I would think.
The bumper is a victory I believe I don’t think they make it anymore. (I would not purchase it again at this point) I remember coming across one thread where someone had the same I think a few years earlier and almost ripped the front off too.

Do the other bumpers mount differently?

It’s. Viper bumper. Not a victory sorry for the confusion. Manufacturers are From Florida I believe.

 

[bloc]

I’m running a badlands on it. I have had a couple pulls on it. No snatches or run up pulls, certainly not To the point where I feel like it’s gonna peel my car apart ?….Well I missed the notice cause it is. Off road abuse?…not anything that has been more than usual for a Rocky Mountain area. I live up a dirt road and it has its dips but this is a bit more than I would think.
The bumper is a victory I believe I don’t think they make it anymore. (I would not purchase it again at this point) I remember coming across one thread where someone had the same I think a few years earlier and almost ripped the front off too.

Do the other bumpers mount differently?

Many mount the same way, some tie in to the tow hook bolt anchors as well. And I do remember someone having that issue before.. not sure who or how to find it.

Kinda makes me wonder whether anyone planning on a bumper should have the mounting plates looked at for weld quality before install. Or possibly some form of gusset that gets welded in. I feel like this was discussed in the other thread..

 

[TeCKis300]

Definitely not the first to have this happen and it maybe that you regularly are on dirt roads. The Aussies have reported this happening on the 200-series early on as they're probably some of the first to bolt on big bumpers and use them regularly on the corrugated outback. I see this as a weld fatigue type failure with cyclical loads over time rather than a hard pull or single incident.

I'm hearing Bronco's having similar issues with their frame horns.

Here's what some of the other bumper manufacturers do the reinforce the mounts on the 200-series.

 

[04UZJ100]

@TeCKis300 the ARB on my 4Runner mounts with a longitudinal thru-bolt like what you have shown in addition to supplemental bracing that brackets around the outer part of the front frame for a good 10-12”.

I have NEVER been a fan of bumpers that only mount to the 6 studs at the end of the frame horn. Doesn’t take FEA to prove they’ll fail eventually at the seams - especially with how much vibration and movement the bumpers see - even on level pavement.

Pics of the 4Runner mount below - really solid engineering.

@cruiseroutfit have you seen any frame failures from ARB/TJM bumpers on the 200?

 

[bloc]

Definitely not the first to have this happen and it maybe that you regularly are on dirt roads. The Aussies have reported this happening on the 200-series early on as they're probably some of the first to bolt on big bumpers and use them regularly on the corrugated outback. I see this as a weld fatigue type failure with cyclical loads over time rather than a hard pull or single incident.

I'm hearing Bronco's having similar issues with their frame horns.

Here's what some of the other bumper manufacturers do the reinforce the mounts on the 200-series.

that ironman method is impressive.

 

[grinchy]

I looked around for some parts to do this with my bumper, but no one wanted to sell just the block and bolt. Probably should just get around to making my own. No cracks yet, but even though I have a ‘light’ solution (110 lb net) it’s probably inevitable

 

[radman]

that plate wasn't designed for forward force\weight. period. It's 3/16" at best, and can easily bend with hand force.....
It's oem function is to hold the crash bar in place in order to absorb force backwards into the frame.

in the dissent design (below), the factory tow points (on the bottom) are used to hold most of the weight, and the crash bar studs are there for additional support.

 

[grinchy]

The rival 4x4 bumper also ties into the tow point location, but I think a top and bottom fixing is better than just a bottom fixing.

 

[landcrusher24]

@TeCKis300 the ARB on my 4Runner mounts with a longitudinal thru-bolt like what you have shown in addition to supplemental bracing that brackets around the outer part of the front frame for a good 10-12”.

I have NEVER been a fan of bumpers that only mount to the 6 studs at the end of the frame horn. Doesn’t take FEA to prove they’ll fail eventually at the seams - especially with how much vibration and movement the bumpers see - even on level pavement.

Pics of the 4Runner mount below - really solid engineering.

@cruiseroutfit have you seen any frame failures from ARB/TJM bumpers on the 200?

View attachment 3302763

View attachment 3302764

Definitely not the first to have this happen and it maybe that you regularly are on dirt roads. The Aussies have reported this happening on the 200-series early on as they're probably some of the first to bolt on big bumpers and use them regularly on the corrugated outback. I see this as a weld fatigue type failure with cyclical loads over time rather than a hard pull or single incident.

I'm hearing Bronco's having similar issues with their frame horns.

Here's what some of the other bumper manufacturers do the reinforce the mounts on the 200-series.

Definitely not the first to have this happen and it maybe that you regularly are on dirt roads. The Aussies have reported this happening on the 200-series early on as they're probably some of the first to bolt on big bumpers and use them regularly on the corrugated outback. I see this as a weld fatigue type failure with cyclical loads over time rather than a hard pull or single incident.

I'm hearing Bronco's having similar issues with their frame horns.

Here's what some of the other bumper manufacturers do the reinforce the mounts on the 200-series.

Definitely not the first to have this happen and it maybe that you regularly are on dirt roads. The Aussies have reported this happening on the 200-series early on as they're probably some of the first to bolt on big bumpers and use them regularly on the corrugated outback. I see this as a weld fatigue type failure with cyclical loads over time rather than a hard pull or single incident.

I'm hearing Bronco's having similar issues with their frame horns.

Here's what some of the other bumper manufacturers do the reinforce the mounts on the 200-series.

Unfortunately you can see the weld is only on the front side of where the tear is. (Aka the two parts don’t have a good divorce ) It’s the frame actually tearing off from the torque of the bumper ( clean edges) I could be wrong…
I like the lug in there.. not sure how much that helps the downward pressure but it looks like the lug hits from the front to that trick little receiver piece and gives some relief.
I am just worried if I just weld the edge it will tear again. That frame rail just isn’t that thick to put a front plate on there and I feel like having a sleeve in the frame is my only solution other than waiting to fail every time if I were to just re weld.

The cap over the tow hook is interesting and I could get on that train if it prevented this from happening but I am not sure that’s a total solution.
Maybe if it had a 1/4 steel piece above the hook so the downward pressure was caught on that but also might be moving the fatigue problem to another area.

I certainly agree this is not a great way to have the heavy ass bumper mounted.

 

[4gotalot]

Same weld failure posted 2017. A couple of the pictures and text have been deleted.

 

[NYC570]

This is why I only trust bumpers that mount like the ARB. I belive the Ironman and the TJM mount in a similar way.

 

[landcrusher24]

that plate wasn't designed for forward force\weight. period. It's 3/16" at best, and can easily bend with hand force.....
It's oem function is to hold the crash bar in place in order to absorb force backwards into the frame.

in the dissent design (below), the factory tow points (on the bottom) are used to hold most of the weight, and the crash bar studs are there for additional support.

This makes a lot of sense…. Just need to figure how to redirect the force accordingly to hold up 200+lbs.
so I guess who has fixed this before with good results? And how did you do it?

 

[landcrusher24]

This is why I only trust bumpers that mount like the ARB. I belive the Ironman and the TJM mount in a similar way.

How do they mount up differently? The lower tow hook part?

 

[NYC570]

How do they mount up differently? The lower tow hook part?

Similar to what the picture that @TeCKis300 shared shows. They mount to the bottom at the tow hooks and to the front not only with the bolts but also with a clevis nut and a long bolt that hugs the frame from the back.

 

[landcrusher24]

Similar to what the picture that @TeCKis300 shared shows. They mount to the bottom at the tow hooks and to the front not only with the bolts but also with a clevis nut and a long bolt that hugs the frame from the back.

Fair I can get behind that. I can probably modify the mounting bar to do that. But I still have the major issue of the mounting bolt plate coming off if I weld that back I have little faith that it wouldn’t fail again. Even with a modification to come up on the tow hooks.
I was hoping for a hey cut it and weld it solution but it’s looking like a cut it, engineer some new solution and hope I don’t get too stuck and just pull my bumper off.

 

[NYC570]

Fair I can get behind that. I can probably modify the mounting bar to do that. But I still have the major issue of the mounting bolt plate coming off if I weld that back I have little faith that it wouldn’t fail again. Even with a modification to come up on the tow hooks.
I was hoping for a hey cut it and weld it solution but it’s looking like a cut it, engineer some new solution and hope I don’t get too stuck and just pull my bumper off.

If you weld it back and can somehow have a clevis nut made and installed with a long bolt, you should have less chance of this happening again if at all.

 

[landcrusher24]

Same weld failure posted 2017. A couple of the pictures and text have been deleted.

Thanks. Yep. Wish I had seen it when it was smaller. But the solutions seem to be harder to come by.