Front bearing preload (1 Viewer)

[DiscoveredLC]

So I just finished my front end rebuild and the preload is pissing me off.

Did the whole fishscale thing and had it at about 9-ish lbs, Drove the truck around a bit and checked the wheel bearings this morning, they were loose... So I went home, jacked the front end up, and left the tires on.

I then carefully adjusted the first bearing nut just to the point to where there was no play and then tightened down the locking nut. I know the locking nut adds a bit more preload so I called it good at that. Drove the truck down the freeway to work (15min drive) and the hub was pretty darn hot to the touch. Not hot to were you couldnt touch it, but close...

I went home and took the drive flange off and the grease looks and smells fine (not burnt obviously) and the outer bearing looks perfect. So basically I put just enough preload to take away the slop and the bearings get hot... back it off a bit, and the damn wheel is loose.

Is it normal for the hub to get that hot? or should it just be warm to the touch?

I also recently added 315's which increases the rolling mass of the wheel making the brakes work harder. Could a large portion of the heat im noticing be from the rotor transfering to the hub?

I hate setting preload on bearings... there's no "sure fire" method, its just a bunch of guessing bull****.

 

[Kernal]

Lots of threads and differing opinions on how to set the preload. Did you read through the FAQ section? IIRC some people like to set the front wheel bearing preload on the high side, like 15-20 lbs. New bearings, old bearings? Are your spindles worn? Wait a bit for more experienced Mudders to chime in.

 

[Tools R Us]

It is normal for them to run warm, hotter than you can hold your hand on. I run them torqued to 25 ft/lb. Have run them with torque from 10-25 ft/lb and can't detect any significant difference in temp.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

Lots of threads and differing opinions on how to set the preload. Did you read through the FAQ section? IIRC some people like to set the front wheel bearing preload on the high side, like 15-20 lbs. New bearings, old bearings? Are your spindles worn? Wait a bit for more experienced Mudders to chime in.

yes, I have gone through the FAQ. Im not really looking for a "how do I set the preload" but more so asking about how hot is normal or too hot?

Ive read SOOOO many different methods over the years on how to set preload its ridiculous... and thats one of the reasons why its so annoying, theres not sure method that takes all the guess work out of it.

New bearings on one side, old on the other. I set them both the same way and they both feel hot. Not hot enough to hurt your hand, but still pretty hot.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

It is normal for them to run warm, hotter than you can hold your hand on. I run them torqued to 25 ft/lb. Have run them with torque from 10-25 ft/lb and can't detect any significant difference in temp.

So you set the initial preload to 25ft/lbs, spin the hub a bunch of times, then retorque to 25 again and call it good? What are you torqueing down the locking nut to?

If they are suppose to be that hot, and the grease on mine looks and smells normal, then I'll just call it good and leave it at that.

thanks guys.

 

[grizzlygibbs]

I took toolsRus advice when putting my new bearings/new spiels setup together about two months ago now. Warm but not hot, and when I took everything off the torque was still good on the inner nut.

Make sure you are removing or at least taking the pressure off your brakepads so you are getting the correct torque values.

 

[rove_mcanus]

I torque them to the 47 foot pound. Even at that the frictional force is at the lower end of the range. Never have any problems with loose bearings or other failures.

I don't rely on the FSM as some holy bible for the landcruiser. There are so many spelling mistakes in it, how can you expect the important facts to be right? It's just a guide for experienced or at least very apt mechanics.

Also the FSM says to torque the rear bearing lock nut to 43 foot pounds. Why would the front be so considerably loose when it is subject to more forces?

 

[Shinichi]

I just went through this last weekend. First bolt tightened to 43# spin spin loosen tighten again to 43# spin spin tighten to 48# spin spin check 48# a couple times. Star washer and outer bolt, tighten to 48# spin spin check 48#.

This seems to work for me.

 

[Corbet]

My hubs are always warm but not too hot to touch.

I had the same results as you by following the FSM and just reset them by feel. No issues since. You did not indicate if you did the initial preload of 48 ft/lbs and back off but if you followed the FSM I'm sure you did.

 

[Fly Rod]

There is a wide range of "acceptable" in adjusting your wb's. I have set mine 4 times now. Three times per the fsm and the last time by "feels good method." With new wb's I was able to get within the torque range specified in the fsm. With good worn bearings I have always found it difficult to get into the mid range without going higher on the preload. The last time I did this I couldn't get 3 lbs of preload using the fsm method. I finally loaded the first nut till I got 6 lbs and buttoned it up. My hubs are warm but not burn your hand hot.

If yours are loose after driving it you may not be seating your hub all the way. Some people have had this problem in the past.

Good luck!

 

[Tools R Us]

So you set the initial preload to 25ft/lbs, spin the hub a bunch of times, then retorque to 25 again and call it good? What are you torqueing down the locking nut to?

If they are suppose to be that hot, and the grease on mine looks and smells normal, then I'll just call it good and leave it at that.

thanks guys.

My bearing setup method: Assemble everything out to the first bearing adjustment nut, install the wheel (I use it as a flywheel, making spinning of the hub easier and better "feel"). Spin the wheel, snug the adjuster nut, spin, loosen, spin, repeat several times. This is to "settle" the tapered bearings into the proper alignment, each time the nut is snugged, it should stop at the same place, if it continues to move the bearings are not properly "settled". Once I'm satisfied with that, torque the inner nut to 25 ft/lb and finish the job. I always recheck for zero play after driving ~100mi.

I don't see how consistent results could be achieved with the fish scale method. The difference in rolling drag is huge between new and used seals, etc. The goal is to apply even preload on the bearings and seal drag covers that up, gets in the way of consistency.

Depending on, ambient temp, brake usage, length/speed of the drive, etc, the hub temp is going to vary. Checked mine this morning, after a ~13mi drive, some traffic and highway, left 128F, right 130F at the drive flange.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

My bearing setup method: Assemble everything out to the first bearing adjustment nut, install the wheel (I use it as a flywheel, making spinning of the hub easier and better "feel"). Spin the wheel, snug the adjuster nut, spin, loosen, spin, repeat several times. This is to "settle" the tapered bearings into the proper alignment, each time the nut is snugged, it should stop at the same place, if it continues to move the bearings are not properly "settled". Once I'm satisfied with that, torque the inner nut to 25 ft/lb and finish the job. I always recheck for zero play after driving ~100mi.

I don't see how consistent results could be achieved with the fish scale method. The difference in rolling drag is huge between new and used seals, etc. The goal is to apply even preload on the bearings and seal drag covers that up, gets in the way of consistency.

Depending on, ambient temp, brake usage, length/speed of the drive, etc, the hub temp is going to vary. Checked mine this morning, after a ~13mi drive, some traffic and highway, left 128F, right 130F at the drive flange.

sounds good!

I think i might have figured my problem... I tightened down the locking nut too much. Wasnt paying attention to how much I torqued that and they were on there pretty darn tight...

I used your 25ft/lb method this morning, so i'll drive to work in a bit and see how that works. I also left the wheel on and gave it a few smacks on the sidewall while it was spinning to make sure everything was settling home. Spun it, torqued, spun, torqued, etc... The wheel has no play in it, but i'll jack it up tonight and check again.

Last question on toe. I read the FAQ and Ive always used the tape measure method. Right now im running 315 MTR kevlars and I have them set at about 1/16" toed in. Im still getting minor death wobble on the freeway. It was worse before the front end rebuild, but its still slightly there. Im wondering if I need a bit more toe in?

FAQ thread says some even go up to .125 (which is 1/8".) I might take the tires down and have them rebalanced, but they are brand new... the shop that balanced them did use the sticky weights that only balance in the center, not the hammer on the rim weights that balance on the outside edge of the wheel.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Last question on toe. I read the FAQ and Ive always used the tape measure method. Right now im running 315 MTR kevlars and I have them set at about 1/16" toed in. Im still getting minor death wobble on the freeway. It was worse before the front end rebuild, but its still slightly there. Im wondering if I need a bit more toe in?

FAQ thread says some even go up to .125 (which is 1/8".) I might take the tires down and have them rebalanced, but they are brand new... the shop that balanced them did use the sticky weights that only balance in the center, not the hammer on the rim weights that balance on the outside edge of the wheel.

Most times, toe has little effect on shakes, it adds to high speed stability. The amount needed varies with setup and driver preference, so best to experiment to see what you prefer. Excessive toe can cause rolling drag, not having enough can cause light steering, darting at high speeds.

I prefer tape weights (much more difficult to knock them off on the trail ). But have one tire that needs edge weight. If the balance problem is offset, at the sidewall, it will need rim edge weight(s) or will cause problems, especially if the problem is on opposite sides of the tire.

 

[Rwhat]

Any update on the preload? I'll be doing mine this week once my new $$$ spindles come in. Old ones had bad lips on them from the bearings spinning and the thrust washers were grooved to hell. Im installing new bearings and want to make sure it's set right.

I don't remember the mini axles being so sensitive to the preload.

 

[Tools R Us]

Any update on the preload? I'll be doing mine this week once my new $$$ spindles come in. Old ones had bad lips on them from the bearings spinning and the thrust washers were grooved to hell. Im installing new bearings and want to make sure it's set right.

I don't remember the mini axles being so sensitive to the preload.

25ft/lb has been working well. Could likely run them much tighter (30-40ft/lb) without issue, but don't see the need?

 

[jeffro109]

I had mine set to 25ft-lb after the axle service last fall, and recently had to go back and retorque them (helped out a lot on the soft brake issues, but that's another topic...). The wheel was barely warm at this torque.

I set the inners at 32ft-lb this time and all seems ok so far. I do notice the wheel is a bit warmer now, but I can easily hold my hand to it for as long as I want after driving around for an hour or so, though it is only 40-50 F outside now at most, that may not be the case in the summer heat.

Reused bearings/races with Mobil 1 red grease. I've given up on the fishscale.

My rear bearings are set to ~40-45 ft lbs to get the fishscale to work out, but they don't seem overly hot either.

 

[Rwhat]

Sounds great Kevin. I guess I skip using the fish scale. This seems like a better method. Especially putting the tire on and settling the bearings. I haven't had much luck with the fish scale.

 

[kidglove13]

I set my bearings like Tool's as well
I do it all by feel with the wheel on
That is how I have always done it with good results

 

[grizzlygibbs]

Update- I have had both fronts set at 25 foot/lbs since about July of 2011. I checked for play off and on with the 12/6 and 3/9 wiggle test. I did the check as recently as last week and still no play or excessive heat from what I can tell. I decided on this method because it seemed to me that ToolsRus and others have had great success with it and I did not want to have to purchase spindles again for a very long time. I will reassess in April and recheck everything. I like this method because of what I had researched, it seems proven, and because its very easy and I don't want to mess with a fish scale. Call me lazy or whatever but it works for me, may or may not be the best method for you.

 

[Rwhat]

Yup, after the cost of re gearing, front axle kit and all the misc stuff I spent money on. I found my spindles to be bad. It sucks since I didn't budget in $470 for new spindles. I would rather keep these running with good preload and no spinnning of the bearings.