Fraud? (1 Viewer)

[NMuzj100]

Ok - My read - don't record conversations with folks in CA unless you are interested in being a test case to clarify the above CA Supreme Court decision as to individuals and the criminal statue.

 

[cary]

"Totious act" - from Black's - Wrongful, of the nature of a tort. To establish "tortius act" the plaintiff must establish an actionable wrong and damages that result therefrom

If the recording is legal in the caller's state and can result in no harm I don't think the federal law applies.

Little problem here, in California it is a criminal act and there is an evidence code section that creates a presumption of guilt on the tort when convicted of the criminal act.

 

[EdsCruisin]

Although I am considered a stubborn SOB, that would typically want his just rewards, I still believe that the damages to be recouped must be significant to be worth the battle (opportunity cost), which in this case is clear across the country. The court system is already over-booked with lesser claims, and the timeline would not be short. Many trees will die to meet the paper needs, gray hairs will appear and fall out, enemies will be made. That is a lot of energy and manpower to receive what? Not a new LC - you will still own a damaged/repaired one in the end, that will probably never drive back to CA.

I would recommend having a reputable CA attorney threaten the crap out of the dealer to see what shakes loose. Then size up the opportunity before turning your world upside down for a depreciable material item.

This is clearly a sensitive ethical issue and I know my opinion will raise some dander, so bring it on.....

 

[NMuzj100]

Little problem here, in California it is a criminal act and there is an evidence code section that creates a presumption of guilt on the tort when convicted of the criminal act.

After reading the above CA Supreme court case I agree. Although it is interesting to note that that there are several undecided areas of the law. But it would not be worth being a test case over a little bodywork. Over an important child custody situation maybe ...

Because Kearney was a civil case, however, the court did not rule on the possible imposition of criminal penalties on out-of-state persons. The court did note that “the imposition of criminal punishment on the basis of conduct that occurs in part outside of California presents potential constitutional and statutory questions different from those” that arise in a civil case, but it did discuss these questions. Accordingly, readers should note that surreptitious recording of telephone conversations is a misdemeanor in California and that it is unclear whether there are circumstances in which out-of-state violators might be subject to criminal prosecution in California.​

Additionally, the court did not determine how its analysis would apply in a case involving the isolated recording of a personal telephone call by an out-of-state individual in a nonbusiness setting, or the recording of a phone call by an out-of-state business that has a reasonable, individualized basis for believing that a particular caller is engaged in criminal or wrongful conduct.​

Thanks all for the legal highjack of a dealer bashing thread!

 

[NMuzj100]

Edscruisin - Of course legal mutually assured destruction is not a great solution to a problem of some overspray hidden behind the headliner.

But it sure makes for a better thread discussion than "Do a quick cost benifit anaysis, realize that life's unfair, and suck it up".

 

[EdsCruisin]

Edscruisin - Of course legal mutually assured destruction is not a great solution to a problem of some overspray hidden behind the headliner.

But it sure makes for a better thread discussion than "Do a quick cost benifit anaysis, realize that life's unfair, and suck it up".

I agree wholeheartedly. And I think Cary was suggesting the same thing but with a little more text.

 

[1loudLX]

i was about to say, where has the 100 tech gone?

 

[EdsCruisin]

i was about to say, where has the 100 tech gone?

This is tech - the softer side of LC ownership

 

[gaylon]

Lots of info

Answers to some of the questions:

I am in Towson, MD now. The dealer here is Bill Kidd's Toyota of Timonium and they have been great, I mean it, really nice.

It is illegal to record unbeknownst in both MD and CA, but you can take notes during a call and immediately after a call and those notes are submissable.

As to having to deal with the dealer in CA, I will be traveling back there monthly for work anyway, so I can be a local pain in the ass for them

As to the Truck, I am going to demand they buy it back from me at retail.

Thanks for your help, gents!

 

[Atticus]

Answers to some of the questions:

I am in Towson, MD now. The dealer here is Bill Kidd's Toyota of Timonium and they have been great, I mean it, really nice.

It is illegal to record unbeknownst in both MD and CA, but you can take notes during a call and immediately after a call and those notes are submissable.

As to having to deal with the dealer in CA, I will be traveling back there monthly for work anyway, so I can be a local pain in the ass for them

As to the Truck, I am going to demand they buy it back from me at retail.

Thanks for your help, gents!

Good luck. I hope it works out.

 

[cary]

As to the Truck, I am going to demand they buy it back from me at retail.

Thanks for your help, gents!

You would be letting them off easily.

 

[justimaginejack]

It still says "jack A$$" on my forehead. Which is funny, because I am frugal(not rich, and I try not to be cheap), and try to understand what I am doing.

the reason I feel this is appropriote as tech is there are repairs to be made to the vehicle and someone is responsible.
I am very interested in hearing this as it goes through,especially since I am still in the market. maybe we should move it to chit-chat?
I am not an Attorney. I am Familiar with some tort law. the goal of the recording is for your records. If you are speaking to the manager, he will not be in a "legal representative" capacity for the dealership, so it doesn't hold much water anyway. But if you can ascertain information, I have found it to be important in the reviewing of the case. I recommended he seek an attoney first!!
It is however very important for an individual to be able to recall with great detail any conversations from here on in. I had a day in court but it was settled out of court do to records I "illegally" acquired! Those documents were not admissable in court either. I am not trying to be a Know it all. I really appreciate the information from cary and others about the phone calls. I did not know that. I have made it a regular habit to record business calls so that I can remember what I need to act on. I will do that with much care to notify the other person.

Once again, I hope that you are able to get it all squared away amicable.
I still use the Lexus dealer that I had issues with. They treat me very well now!

 

[NMuzj100]

I noticed that the CA statue refers to "confidential conversations". Would this include a call to a business ? An employee would have no reasonable expectation of privacy while on a company phone for company business.

I am sure there is case law on this issue as well. Maybe Cary can ring in as well.

To bring back the tech ...

gaylon - Was the leak related to the bodywork or fixing the leak just uncovered the fact that bodywork had been done at some time?

And what was the actual cause of the leak ?

 

[Zimm]

It is illegal to record unbeknownst in both MD and CA, but you can take notes during a call and immediately after a call and those notes are submissable.



Thanks for your help, gents!

if you have a reason to believe they're gonna say something good on the phone, record. take notes. wipe out recording. lie if asked by your attorney. he dont wanna/needta know. but cary is right the odds of getting the guilty party on the phone are slim to none and slims outa town.

if you wanna swim with the sharks, you'll need to act like one. This dealer aint gonna say oops and fork over 60g + fees just 'cause you asked. he committed to a course of action long before you bought this rig.

 

[gaylon]

To bring back the tech ...

gaylon - Was the leak related to the bodywork or fixing the leak just uncovered the fact that bodywork had been done at some time?

And what was the actual cause of the leak ?

The leak is due to the fact that the roof rack gasket or whatever the rubber part it attaches to is called was deformed due to overtightening by the body shop during reinstallation.