Frame Recovery Bracket Group Buy

[calamaridog]

I didn't know the 100 came with any FACTORY RECOVERY POINTS.

In Australia it did come with transport tie-down loops, as well as a tow hook, if you could call it that, but I would not use it for anything myself.

Uh, yea, exactly! Everything is so much more clear in the Queens English

 

[calamaridog]

Everyone should get a PM with details tomorrow. We will just call this closed now.

 

[calamaridog]

I'm just working out a few more details before I start collecting the $. I'll let you know asap.

 

[calamaridog]

I'm just working out a few more details before I start collecting the $. I'll let you know asap.

Sorry for the delay. I think the hardware will run about $7-10 per pair but I'm still trying to nail down the exact size I want to order. Been very busy and just waiting to hear back from the fabricator before I collect any money.

 

[Dwon]

I'm interested in these, but I've got issues with the bolt size and I need to know what you all think.

I've got a new ARB Bull Bar and it uses a spacer to separate the bottom of the mounting bracket from the frame so you don't have to cut that little tab off of the OEM bumper mount on the frame. What that does is create an additional 1"+ of distance for the bolt to reach the threads inside the frame. I'm worried about a couple things:

A. Because of the gap is there any type of issues with the shear force on the bolts?

B. I'm having a hard time finding bolts to attach the factory tow hook so I think I'll have the same issue attaching these.

The factory bolts are: M14 x 1.5 x 60mm.
The ARB replacement bolts are: M14 x 1.5 x 80mm.
To attach the OEM tow hook I'll need: M14 x 1.5 x 110mm.

What size bolt do you think I'll need to attach these new brackets? If I can't get the bolt, then it wouldn't make any sense to get these brackets.

 

[SALEH]

guys put me on the list

 

[calamaridog]

PM's have been sent to those who wanted brackets.

 

[Dwon]

I measured the distance from the rear mount bolt to the front ARB mounting bolt which hangs down about 2". These brackets won't fit on the new version of the ARB Bull because the bracket is 6.5" long and the front bolt is about 5.5" from the rear bolt.

There's three bolts on the new ARB Bull Bar. The two in the rear of the mounting assembly that bolt up into the factory tie down, hook points, and one in front of those that goes through the front of the factory frame/bumper assembly and basically just anchors the bumper to the frame, I guess in the event the two mounting bolts fail.

So unless I'm wrong on the length of these d-ring brackets they won't fit on the new ARB Bull Bars for the LC 100.

I have a question for ya'all. What did you use for extraction points before? I can't see anywhere other than the tow hook to be pulled by and some of you guys say the tow hooks (not tie-downs) will break.

I'm really curious because these brackets won't fit my rig so what should I use if I get in a jam?

 

[dclee]

I have a question for ya'all. What did you use for extraction points before? I can't see anywhere other than the tow hook to be pulled by and some of you guys say the tow hooks (not tie-downs) will break.

A winch.


Seriously, I just bolted up a pair of these:

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/

I also used their backing plates with grade 8 hardware. I have a Deluxe combo bar and mounted them just outboard of the winch opening. On the passenger side, this is just inboard of the ARB emblem, and mirrored on the driver side. I found these were the only locations where I could fit the backing plate on the back side of the bumper, without interference from all of the gusseting and bracketry back there.

 

[calamaridog]

Derek,

While I think those are beefy, I prefer to have them mounted directly to the frame. I've seen several bumpers pulled away from the frame horns on Toyotas by just winching forces (Tacoma and 4runner). I think the shock load of a hard jerk would be even more strain on the frame horns, but I'm not sure if this would be an issue with the LC or not.

Here is a link about what I'm talking about:

http://www.wattora.com/index.php?page_id=13

Not sure if this would be an issue on the LC or not, just food for thought.

 

[Dwon]

A winch.


Seriously, I just bolted up a pair of these:

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/

I also used their backing plates with grade 8 hardware. I have a Deluxe combo bar and mounted them just outboard of the winch opening. On the passenger side, this is just inboard of the ARB emblem, and mirrored on the driver side. I found these were the only locations where I could fit the backing plate on the back side of the bumper, without interference from all of the gusseting and bracketry back there.

I doesn't look like the bull bar for the 100LC is secured to the frame in such a way as it would be strong enough to pull on.

The winch is mounted to the assembly which is bolted directly to the frame. That looks strong enough.

The bumper is mounted to the assembly via the crush-able arms which don't look like they would provide much pull-push strength. They look like they'd accordion out and leave the bumper hanging limp a foot in front of the rig if you tried to pull using it. That's what it looks like to me. I may be wrong.

After I wrote this, I looked around and found out I was right. You shouldn't use the bumper pull from on a bull bar that's airbag compatible (crush zones) as it will compromise the bar. Here's where I learned about that.

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/curt/

"Most of the latest front bumpers from companies like ARB and TJM are airbag-compatible for product liability reasons. Bumpers like the TJM T15 Winch Bar shown above cannot properly accept recovery points mounted to the blade. Doing so could compromise the crush cans on this bumper. It is for these types of applications that the Safety Tow Hooks are ideal because the Safety Tow Hooks are so small. Look closely at this Discovery Series II. There are two Safety Tow Hooks to this T15's winch tray."

 

[uzj100]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=126254&highlight=recovery+points&page=2

These are the best recovery points I have seen on a 100. Welding in steel bars that stick straight from the frame.

 

[Dwon]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=126254&highlight=recovery+points&page=2

These are the best recovery points I have seen on a 100. Welding in steel bars that stick straight from the frame.

Looks cool, but after all that work, why not just build your own bull bar in the first place?

There's one big problem with this job IMHO... He got rid of the crush zone on the mounting bracket which could interfere with his airbags (I'm no airbag engineer). I really don't want to mess around with safety.

 

[dclee]

I doesn't look like the bull bar for the 100LC is secured to the frame in such a way as it would be strong enough to pull on.

The winch is mounted to the assembly which is bolted directly to the frame. That looks strong enough.

The bumper is mounted to the assembly via the crush-able arms which don't look like they would provide much pull-push strength. They look like they'd accordion out and leave the bumper hanging limp a foot in front of the rig if you tried to pull using it. That's what it looks like to me. I may be wrong.

After I wrote this, I looked around and found out I was right. You shouldn't use the bumper pull from on a bull bar that's airbag compatible (crush zones) as it will compromise the bar. Here's where I learned about that.

In general I would agree with you, but then I'm not a mechanical engineer and I didn't design the bar. The Deluxe Combo bar I have does not have a separate winch cradle, so that's a moot point. The winch mounts directly to the face of the bumper, not the frame, and is heavily reinforce and gusseted in that area. I bolted my recovery points to the same structure as the winch and Hi-Lift jacking point. No other choice with this bumper.

I will say that a winching operation will put different stress on the bumper than a snatch. But the way the Combo bar is set up (at least my vintage) there are not too many option for recovery points.

 

[spressomon]

Just to add:

Whether you utilize the FRB I designed, bumper mount as I welded to my TJM or Snook's frame mount recovery plates you IMO (for situations when the rig is really stuck...) you want to utilize two recovery straps (or one long one) one connected to each of your two bumper recovery points/brackets. The angle at which is created at the bumper at the intersection of the strap and recovery point on the bumper should not exceed 120 degrees. This approach, when applicable, distributes the recovery event stresses to each side of the bumper/frame rails and prevents the pulling force from pulling the frame rails together (that's the reason for the max 120 degree angle).

Obviously for little trail tugs to get up and over obstacles wouldn't generally require anything more than pulling from one recovery point.

 

[fish2live]

FRB and Sahara bar for 2003

I don't have the Sahara and 9000XD yet, but anyone foresee any issues with the FRB mounting working cleanly with the Sahara mounting - like the Bull Bar issues above brought up by Dwon?

Or for that matter, the FRB mounting and a rear ARB bumper?

Fish

 

[Dwon]

Just to add:

Whether you utilize the FRB I designed, bumper mount as I welded to my TJM or Snook's frame mount recovery plates you IMO (for situations when the rig is really stuck...) you want to utilize two recovery straps (or one long one) one connected to each of your two bumper recovery points/brackets. The angle at which is created at the bumper at the intersection of the strap and recovery point on the bumper should not exceed 120 degrees. This approach, when applicable, distributes the recovery event stresses to each side of the bumper/frame rails and prevents the pulling force from pulling the frame rails together (that's the reason for the max 120 degree angle).

Why not use hooks? It would seem that the stress put on a D-ring at an angle would be more strenuous than the stress put on a hook. In other words, your mounting brackets are most vulnerable where the pin comes into contact with the far side of the bracket when pulled at an angle unless you mount the d-rings vertical so they can rotate side to side. With hooks there isn't a pin being pulled at an angle so there are only forces acting against the securing bolts to the frame. Are those forces negligible (like I said I'm no engineer).

Since I can't use these brackets, I'm going to stick with tow hooks. Problem is I can't seem to find any after market hooks that fit the bolt pattern of the LC100. Anyone know where to get a set of tow hooks?

 

[spressomon]

Problem is I can't seem to find any after market hooks that fit the bolt pattern of the LC100. Anyone know where to get a set of tow hooks?

Exactly: I didn't design and fab those original FRBs because I didn't have anything better to do .

The bolt spacing is unique...I doubt you will find anything off the shelf: There were several of us that searched before.


Regarding the pull angle...that is why you need to keep the outside angle of where the recovery strap connect to the FRB to no more than 120 degrees. You don't want the force to cause the frame rails to collapse . Obviously this is when a recovery is being attempted on a really stuck rig ....otherwise a single line/single FRB recovery are OK. It's all about how the load is applied and how big the load is...

 

[Dwon]

Excellent information, all be it depressing for me and my ARB bull bar that won't take your super cool brackets.

Let me know if you make a batch that are under 5.25" long because I'll definitely get a couple!!!

 

[calamaridog]

I don't have the Sahara and 9000XD yet, but anyone foresee any issues with the FRB mounting working cleanly with the Sahara mounting - like the Bull Bar issues above brought up by Dwon?

Or for that matter, the FRB mounting and a rear ARB bumper?

Fish

Fish,

I don't foresee an issue but I can't say for sure. If for some reason you can't use them you should not have too difficult a time getting rid of them.

I don't understand the additional mounting Dwon is showing or what problem ARB is trying to fix? It seems like a "fix" of some sort? Anyways, it looks like the FRB could be reversed and used there anyways.